Solicitor in Ireland or England?

Player_86

Hi everyone, I'm new to boards so please bear with me...

I'm in a bit of a dilemma, and hope you can give me some advice.

I'm a penultimate year Business and Legal student in UCD, and I've been lucky enough to get through the CV process and group interview process with Arthur Cox. I have an individual interview next week...which is good.

I've also been invited to England to a number of bigger London law firms for vacation placement interviews...which is also good.

Now, I 100% appreciate that there's a very good chance that nothing will come of these interviews, I'm just wondering if anyone could offer me some advice on what to do if offered both.

Or, the more general question, would you choose to work for one of Ireland's biggest law firms, or one of London's, and why?

The way I see it is this:

Dublin - pros include not having to leave my family (which is obviously a huge one), a more personal working environment (which would give me the chance to get to know my colleagues better).

London - pros include much higher salary, it's 40k sterling as trainee, 65k sterling upon qualification v. 32k euro as trainee, 50k upon qualification (not sure about the Irish salaries, the firms are pretty tight-lipped), an opportunity to potentially face bigger legal challenges on a more global scale, and if your first place of qualification is England, you can become a solicitor in Ireland without doing any more tests etc...so that means no FE1s

So, I suppose I'm not in a dilemma yet as no offers are on the table, but it'd be great to get an early heads-up, just in case...

Thanks a lot.

Tom Young

If you get a top tier firm in Ireland, such as the one you cite then I´d take it. You can always head to London later on. The money is only a small part of it.

johnnyskeleton

Player_86 wrote: »

The way I see it is this:

Dublin - pros include not having to leave my family (which is obviously a huge one), a more personal working environment (which would give me the chance to get to know my colleagues better).

London - pros include much higher salary, it's 40k sterling as trainee, 65k sterling upon qualification v. 32k euro as trainee, 50k upon qualification (not sure about the Irish salaries, the firms are pretty tight-lipped), an opportunity to potentially face bigger legal challenges on a more global scale, and if your first place of qualification is England, you can become a solicitor in Ireland without doing any more tests etc...so that means no FE1s

It's a personal choice - do you want to live in Ireland or in England? If money is a factor, then go with the most lucrative offer.

I don't necessarily think that in England you will be facing "bigger legal challenges on a more global scale" - you might have more photocopying to do, or longer hours filling out pro forma conveyances, but you are unlikely to be thrust to the forefront of international trade negotiations (in your first few years anyways).

Player_86

Thanks folks, appreciate the advice...

Yeah, I'm sure the vacation placement in England would involve a lot more photocopying, but surely not an actual training contract? Sure they have their own photocopying departments

Which would make you a more capable and knowledgable solicitor? Or would that depend on the person? Or is there an answer to that question at all?

johnnyskeleton

Player_86 wrote: »

Thanks folks, appreciate the advice...

Yeah, I'm sure the vacation placement in England would involve a lot more photocopying, but surely not an actual training contract? Sure they have their own photocopying departments

Which would make you a more capable and knowledgable solicitor? Or would that depend on the person? Or is there an answer to that question at all?

There's no answer to that. I think the best training for a solicitor is to be taken under the wing of a busy sole practitioner in a medium sized town. There, you are likely to get exposed to all kinds of law. In a bigger firm you are going to be dealing with the fancier end of law which is fine, but it doesn't really give you the baptism of fire to be experienced at the other end. But this is just how it seems to me. It really depends on what type of solicitor you want to be, as in what area(s) of law do you want to be knowledgable about?

sh_o

If you get the opportunity of doing a vacation placement abroad I would highly recommend it. It is great experience to live away from home and experience another city before you decide where you want to live long term.
The chances are that if you are successful in securing a vacation placement in London, you may have completed this prior to securing an Irish training contract and that way you will have the benefit of that experience prior to deciding.
Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

dats_right

Really depends on your ambitions. If you can get into a Magic Circle firm in London, then personally I would jump at it as after training there the world really is your oyster. London, along with New York are the pre-eminent global legal centres. Train in a MC firm in London and you will walk into any firm in Dublin.

dewsbury

I would not be so sure that the legal profession is better paid in London. I have some (layman) experience in conveyancing and probate in both countries.

A very un-scientific example. Sold a house in UK for 400K Sterling - legal fees £1,100. Bought house in Dublin for 600K (Euro) - legal fees 3,500 (Euros).

It would appear that legal fees in Ireland are often based on the notion of "professional fees". I.e. The solicitors just pick a figure out of thin air (and double it)!

My experience in UK was more up front. E.g. a fixed amount per quarter hour.

Player_86

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

There's no answer to that. I think the best training for a solicitor is to be taken under the wing of a busy sole practitioner in a medium sized town. There, you are likely to get exposed to all kinds of law. In a bigger firm you are going to be dealing with the fancier end of law which is fine, but it doesn't really give you the baptism of fire to be experienced at the other end. But this is just how it seems to me. It really depends on what type of solicitor you want to be, as in what area(s) of law do you want to be knowledgable about?

Thanks for that. I totally agree. Thinking strongly of commercial law but then again, how would I actually know it's for me if I haven't experienced the other branches of law in practice? So, might consider a predominantly commercial law firm, who also provide private client services in other areas. McCann Fitz does this, I believe.

Thanks to everyone who replied, I need all the advice I can get, have nobody in my family or even families of my friends to ask...

And yeah, the London firms are magic circle, so I suppose that's potentially a pretty good opportunity...but I like Dublin

Any other advice would be brilliant.

Tom Young

The social aspect in London is good, but as Johnny mentioned, you'll be worked hard so its kind of horses for courses but it might be fun. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Dublin is quite small in the industrial sense.

paulanthony

I would personally recommend a trainineeship with a smaller Dublin firm such as T.P. Robinson & Co.