Tube/Solid State Amplifiers

Music4life

First of all Is there any advantages solids have over tubes? Am I right by saying solids are lower quality amps then tubes?
The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking about buying a new Amp.I play Finger style Classical,Metal,Rock etc..I'm looking for a versatile amp for my leaving Cert Music,Gigging & Practicing.So I suppose I'd need a 60watt to keep up with the drums.
My Guitar teacher Recommended this Amp
He said look for amps with tubes 6l6s or El500s.Ive about a grand to spend.So any recommendations?

Thanks:D

sei046

not a bad reccomendation but there are so many. Solid states are much more reliable and a lot of people using solidstates for the tightness in the lowend they can get. That isnt to say that a tube amp cant get that. Its probably a bit of a generalisation to say they are lower quality amps but the majority of people prefer a lot of the classic tube amps. Pick yourself up a nice TSL combo or something like that. That deville would be nice though

Music4life

Thanks

I Suppose Marshall are made more for metal I dunno about Deville though? If Solids brake there supposed too be very hard to fix.Tubes can be fixed.I dunno if its true or not but I heard Dimebag never used tubes until Damage Plan.Ya just starting too learn about tubes now.I suppose tube would be the way too go.But I think Marshall Would have a dirtier clean sound compared too fender.

deaddonkey

solid state: cheap, lighter, more reliable, less volume for given wattage, buzzy distortion, less harmonic overtones

tube/valve: expensive, somewhat outdated technology, prone ti failure, needs maintenance, more volume, rich and fat overdrive, lotsa harmonics, all round sounds better for rocknroll (my opinion etc, but most guitarists will agree)

you don't need anything approaching 60 watts to gig with unless you want the cleans to be really, really, really sparkling clean at drummer volumes. 20 watts is more than enough for gigging, you'd never get a 60 watt amp into the sweet spot, which is pretty much the whole point of a valve amp.
tonight i played a 5 watt valve amp, while i didn't crank it, if i was happy with drummer volumes being overdriven, it was capable of it.

Music4life

What do you mean by"Prone Ti failure"& "somewhat outdated technology"Like what would be modern comparing too tube amps.Wouldn't you need around a 60watt for heavy metal?Very Loud drums.I was actually thinking about just buying a 5 watt for the L.c. small perfect for classical gigs & keep my solid state amp.

deaddonkey

prone to failure - they're simply not as reliable as solid state, tubes wear out and go microphonic and need replacing.

tubes are not hifi equipment, the only audio applications they're used for now is pretty much guitar stuff

you heard the term 'transistor radio'? that comes from when tubes were taken out of use in radios and music systems in the 50s and 60s, because solid state (transistor) technology was cheaper, more effective, and more accurately reproduces the sound of a recording. tubes add to a guitar's sound, if you want a truer representation of what your guitar sounds like, go solid state. that's what a lot of jazz players do.
tubes distort and add harmonic content, and it's considered a good thing.

and no, i think 60 watts would be very excessive unless you're playing big gigs, 20 watts will have you heard over a drummer very easily as long as you don't take all the mids out.
if you've never had a valve amp before, you'll find that you get a lot more volume for the same power rating
you'll never get the full potential of a 60 watt valve amp, cos nowhere is gonna let you crank it til it starts cookin' nicely.

Eoin Madsen

Music4life wrote: »

Like what would be modern comparing too tube amps.Wouldn't you need around a 60watt for heavy metal?

60 watts doesn't really mean anything.

A cranked 100 watt Marshall AVT won't go as loud as a (30 watt) Vox AC30. An AC30 can hold reasonably clean at a volume that happily matches a drum kit. There are a lot of other factors involved with volume. Using solidstate amps tends to give a false impression of a power:volume ratio.

"Modern" would probably be a solidstate amp with digital modelling. Most digital modelling centres around trying to sound like various classic valve amps.

A (real) Marshall like an old 1959 has a far cleaner clean than any Fender Hotrod series amp. The Fender clean reputation comes from the classic Fender Twin and Twin Reverb amps. The Marshall dull-clean reputation comes from the modern DSL and TSL series.

Valve amps have a reputation for being less reliable because old equipment in general wears out, and a lot of vintage valve amps are still in circulation. But a new valve amp is the same as a new SS amp. It's just circuitry. The valves themselves have to be replaced periodically (every 6 months to 2 years depending on valves and usage) and can be damaged by impact a little more easily than any other given component, but otherwise there is no real reason why a valve amp would be less reliable than a solidstate amp as a general rule.

Some valve amps sound as different from each other as they do from solidstate amps, so try not to get caught up in the bs of valve magic. Admittedly, the good ones in my experience have always been valve amps without exception. But I've heard plenty of dreadful valve amps too.

A 50 watt Marshall JCM800 would probably suit the styles you suggest. A sparkly clean, and classic metal distortion. Dunno if the Marshall reissue is any good though.

Eoin Madsen

deaddonkey wrote: »

tubes are not hifi equipment, the only audio applications they're used for now is pretty much guitar stuff

There's actually as much of a valve market for DIY HiFi enthusiasts!

Rustar

Thanks, gentlemen, for the great reviews of tubes vs. solid-state.
Having always bought solid-state, I never really understood the whole higher-volume-for-lower-wattage thing before.
And having been a semi-pro bassist but only a hobbyist guitarist, I assumed that Wattage was King, even though I noticed that my guitarists never used over 100 watts (and that usually with power brakes).

I've used 150, 300, and 450watt bass amps, and as I increased the wattage, my sound got better. All solid-state, of course.

I guess guitar amplification is just a whole different universe.

Voodu Child

Rustar wrote: »

Having always bought solid-state, I never really understood the whole higher-volume-for-lower-wattage thing before.

A 30watt SS amp puts out 30watts of clean, undistorted sound. But SS amps sound terrible if you try and overdrive them past their rated output, so it's never allowed to happen. With the master on 10, all you're EVER going to get out of it is 30watts.

A 30watt valve amp still puts out 30 watts of pristine clean sound, but valve amps sound great when they're 'overdriven'. From a very soft almost unnoticeable clip ('valve 'warmth'), to a bluesy crunch, and all the way to an aggressive barrage of distortion - this can all come from just running the output section harder than it was 'supposed to be'.

So the 30 watt output might only be at 3 or 4 on the master. Turn the knob a tiny bit and you're already putting out the amps maximum clean wattage, with loads more power to go. You might get 100+ watts out if it at full whack. (it wont be clean, but hey, that's rock'n'roll )

That's about the simplest reason a 30watt valve vs SS is so different. There's other more complicated reasons, but that one covers a lot of the difference. dB would have been a much better way of rating guitar amps, but we're stuck with watts for various reasons.

Rustar

Cool, Voodoo....kind of makes beginning players "lost in the jungle", doesn't it? LOL

Music4life

Thanks for that guys:D

Id say ill go for a 10watt fender by the look of things for the l.c.

Jack Vegas

You have a grand, and want an amp that can go from pristine clean to screaming metal tone? Look no further...



http://www.thomann.de/ie/engl_screamer_50_roehrencombo_e330.htm

Absolutely gorgeous amp.

Music4life

Cheers Vegas looks sweet:D Who knows what Santa will bring;)

Eoin Madsen

If you get a valve amp, don't forget to budget for new valves. Stock valves are usually a bit crap.