1080p vs 720p (1081i)

Keith C

I came across this article on www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com I, like many of you guys, am trying to get as much info as poss before spending the bucks on a tv. I found this interesting & wondering do people agree or disagree (esp those that have bought 1080 tv's)

http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv/1080p-vs-720p.html



1080p vs 720p (1080i).
Is 1080p worth it?
Reviewer: William Becker

October 2007
Copyright © 2007 LCDTVBuyingGuide.com. All Rights Reserved.

The question I am most frequently asked about this resolution comparison is, "Should I get 1080p resolution in my LCD Television?" There are a few obvious questions I ask in response:

What size is the TV?
Are you using it for professional editing?
Do you have a Sony Playstation 3 or XBox 360 for gaming (both consoles have 1080p games and the PS3 is also a Blu Ray player)?
Do you have a Sony Blu Ray DVD player?

Generally, the answer to the above questions is, "no" and the answer to whether or not the consumer should get a 1080p display is usually no as well. It's just not worth the extra $$. Here's why:

The 1080p question is really the result of a technology battle between LCD and Plasma. Higher resolutions are easier for LCD manufacturers to produce, and more cost effective. It's a specification bragging battle as in, "we've got the 1080p resolution and you don't." Now that plasma manufacturers have caught up let's analyze what is does for you the consumer.

Unless you are into video editing, or extreme graphic computer use, 1080p does hardly anything at all except hit you in the pocket book! It took years of pressure for broadcasters to finally produce 1080i or 720p and there are NO plans to pump out 1080p on cable, satellite, or broadcast. There is ONE DVD format that puts out a 1080p signal and that is Blu Ray. Blu Ray, is a great DVD technology and the picture quality is awesome, however it's no better than 1080i or 720p in my opinion. I base this opinion on some pretty thorough testing. Recently, our staff reviewed a 65" Panasonic 1080p plasma, a 52" Sharp 1080p LCD and a Sony 46" 1080p LCD TV. We viewed several movies via the Sony Blu Ray player which conveniently has a resolution toggle button on the remote control. In order to perform a fair test of 1080i vs. 1080p we sent participants out of the room after having shown them the DVDs with both resolutions several times. Then we called them back in with one of the resolutions displaying and asked them whether it was the 1080p or 1080i signal. We repeated this process 10 times and, guess what? They had no clue and could not differentiate at all between the two. This feedback came from a team who knows TVs. In fact they seemed to favor the 1080i signal slightly (60/40). It's incredibly difficult to see the difference even in a side by side test.

So why make it? Why produce 1080p? So you'll pony up and buy it crazy!! Spend more money! Open up that billfold! The manufacturers need to produce products that will sell for more in an environment of ever falling TV prices. That, and the aforementioned LCD vs. Plasma battle.

So what to buy? Find yourself a nice 1366 X 768 TV produced by a Tier 1 manufacturer and let it go at that. Put the $1000 you will save into a good set of speakers and receiver for your home theater. A 1080p display does not look any better than a 720p (1080i) TV when viewing 1) A High Definition signal via cable, satellite or broadcast 2) a DVD signal 3) And the biggest question of all, "Does it even look better with the limited Blu Ray content available?" 4) A lowly non-HD cable or satellite signal may view better on the lower resolution 1080i (720p) LCD TV due to the fact that a 1080p display will have to perform some extreme up conversion to get to its native resolution.



Copyright © 2007 LCDTVBuyingGuide.com. All Rights Reserved.

banchang

Keith C wrote: »

I It took years of pressure for broadcasters to finally produce 1080i or 720p and there are NO plans to pump out 1080p on cable, satellite, or broadcast. There is ONE DVD format that puts out a 1080p signal and that is Blu Ray. .

Good article & thanks for posting. I agree with a lot of it. The one issue I have is the above statement. To get competitive advantage, & to similarly move customers on to the next level, the cable companies & others putting out content will always be looking to move to the next wave, & as soon as possible.

They will not be divulging their plans, & indeed I don't know what their plans or timings are likely to be, but generally when you buy one of these expensive TVs you don't want to have to change it out in 1-2 years as there generally isn't a second hand market for them - certainly not for 'old' technology'. So most people who are interested in this end of the market, want to 'futureproof'.

(There are those who indeed these things don't matter to, & just want a big flat screen & are happy with that, but those people won't be reading this thread)

So this is why there continues to be interest in 1080p, I believe, as technology continues to move a lot faster than we think, & people don't want to incur significant regret cost..

copacetic

i kinda agree, except the questions on do you have PS3/blu ray etc, should really be - can you see yourself having them or whatever else comes along in the next 5 years?

There is a significant quality difference between 1080p and 1080i content, which you could only see on a 1080p set. The test he describes could have happened but depending on the content the difference isn't as noticeable.

However as he says, there are no current plans by any broadcasters to send 1080p to the home and there may never be. The current HD infrastructure in most is not capable, and there aren't even 3GHz HD (1080p) versions of a lot of broadcast equipment as yet. Not sure I get what banchang says above, cable companies can put out 1080p if they like but they won't have any channels to put on it..

Personally I think HD-DVD or Bluray/ combined players will be standard within a couple of years, if you can afford it but a full 1080p set now. If not don't worry about it, sets in 2 years will probably be much cheaper than now and possibly SED sets may have taken over.

Keith C

Theres been a lot of bargain alerts recently for 1080p tvs (currys sharp deal for example) and ive been drawn into the whole 1080 is the best etc... however I dont have a PS3/xbox (at the moment) & only have standard cable so should I buy a 1080 tv (37"-42") in the special deals & "potentially" future proof my tv or just buy a 720p as anything more than that is not required really. old 32" crt is on the way out.
Decisions, decisions,decisions......

Lawdie

Cheers Keith, its good advice and indirectly a bargain alert. I'm forever going for the high end, but this has adjusted my ideas. I'll be looking for a highly rated lower tech 42" shortly.

Also by the time cable manufacturers get HD in place most of us will be looking at upgrading to the THEN newest technology. Theres no real thing as futureproofing in technology. Its about budget and wants.

Zonda999

I heard that 2012 is the target for 1080p broadcasts.Does any one know what percentage of new sky customers are actually getting sky hd. The only place i've seen it is in shops

copacetic

Zonda999 wrote: »

I heard that 2012 is the target for 1080p broadcasts.Does any one know what percentage of new sky customers are actually getting sky hd. The only place i've seen it is in shops

the target for who Zonda?

colmranger

Should this thread not be in Home Entertainment instead of Bargain Alerts?

Zonda999

America probably because i read it on cnet

Keith C

colmranger wrote: »

Should this thread not be in Home Entertainment instead of Bargain Alerts?

I posted in bargain alerts due to the amount of threads being posted on tv deals, esp coming up to xmas & january sales, I feel most people buying a tv will be searching BA forum rather than home entertainment so this is handy to have here.

up to mods if they wanna move it

daveboy

Well worth posting this info here, There are a lot of people sitting on the fence over this issue, and this topic may well make up their minds.

Sponge Bob

Zonda999 wrote: »

I heard that 2012 is the target for 1080p broadcasts.

Its now 2008 in Ireland and the UK, this being the revised date when mpeg4 broadcasts will start in these territories. Not sure how many HD channels will be running by this time next year.

BBC will launch their Freesat Service in March 2008 and Irish DTT will launch in the Autumn possibly with some 1080p in the clear.

Does any one know what percentage of new sky customers are actually getting sky hd. The only place i've seen it is in shops

SKY HD only 720p, not worth the upgrade to my mind. 1080p is something else altogether

copacetic

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Its now 2008 in Ireland and the UK, this being the revised date when mpeg4 broadcasst will start in these territories. Not sure how many HD channels will be running by this time next year.

BBC will launch their Freesat Service in March 2008 and Irish DTT will launch in teh Autumn.

SKY HD only 720p, not worth the upgrade to my mind. 1080p is something else altogether

not sure what you are saying here spongebob, do you think BBC or RTÉ are planning 1080p broadcasts? They aren't.

Also Sky HD supports either 1080i or 720p, all 8 sky HD channels are broadcast in 1080i. I believe boxes default
to 720p conversion to be compatible with most sets.

Sponge Bob

copacetic wrote: »

not sure what you are saying here spongebob, do you think BBC or RTÉ are planning 1080p broadcasts? They aren't.

They are you know. Its just that BBC will only do so on Satellite and RTE are only as far as 1080i in Dublin on an encrypted trial right now on DTT

For the foreseeable future UK DTT will remain on mpeg 2 according to what Ofcom said this week.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=19514268&postcount=31

Also Sky HD supports either 1080i or 720p, all 8 sky HD channels are broadcast in 1080i. I believe boxes default
to 720p conversion to be compatible with most sets.

Righty ho, thanks. Looks like 1080i will be supported short term....2008 in other words.

copacetic

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They are you know. Its just that BBC will only do so on Satellite and RTE are only as far as 1080i in Dublin on an encrypted trial right now on DTT

For the foreseeable future UK DTT will remain on mpeg 2 according to what Ofcom said this week.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=19514268&postcount=31



Righty ho, thanks. Looks like 1080i will be supported short term....2008 in other words.

dude, you seem to be getting 1080i mixed up with 1080p? Thats the only thing I can think of there..

byte

Due to the amount of bandwidth that 1080p broadcasts would need (double that of 1080i?), I can't see it happening any time soon, unless there will be some compression format that will better MPEG4.

copacetic

byte wrote: »

Due to the amount of bandwidth that 1080p broadcasts would need (double that of 1080i?), I can't see it happening any time soon, unless there will be some compression format that will better MPEG4.

at least byte, but never mind that, the equipment doesn't currently exist for TV channels to generate and broadcast content in 1080p economically.

311

I have a 37" plasma and I've seen sky Hd on it at 1080i ,it's absolutlely brilliant.

For some reason 1080i looks superior on any tv ,than anything I've seen on any other format.
The interlacing seems to take the bite ,out of digital.

Sponge Bob

Looks like 1080i for the interim.

A spectrum war (yet to be fought) will decide whether HD flatlines at 1080i or 1080p , you got mobile operators smelling round the UHF band and codec adaptations ongoing .

720p has no future in Europe .

Zonda999

I agree that 1080i is enough. I mean when you see skyHD on a television it looks spectacular and i dont think any more is needed. By the way does anyone know what percentage of new sky customers are getting skyHD??

Sponge Bob

SKY don't break the figure out, about 5% of all sky subscribers in both Ireland and the UK have HD, thats all I know.

The industry impetus to provide HD channels has undergone a step change in recent times although this has been stymied in the UK by Ofcom to some extent.

Therefore the most interesting development will be BBC FREESAT next year. I understand it will launch in March with 3 HD channels and will have 8 HD channels by this time next year.

If you cannot get 28E satellite where you live I would not assume HD will come in on terrestrial or cable .

It may be a tad awkward to acquire the BBC FREESAT kit for some time so be nice to your mates in the UK this christmas

Snake Plisken

Article author lost all respect when he said BluRay was only format able to output 1080p as HD-DVD can also provide 1080p.

If your buy a 32" or less set no need for anything higher then a 720p set as you won't see any difference. If your going for a 37" and up and are sitting very close to the set you will see the difference on 1080p movies on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. If your only HD plans are Sky HD, then don't bother investing in a 1080p set.

Snake

more inportantly for movie lovers is the requirement for their tv's to process 24fps movies, otherwise you'll get a judder effect which is really off putting.

SemperFidelis

It's important to understand the difference between 720p vs 1080i. A 720p signal is made up of 720 horizontal lines. Each frame is displayed in its entirety on-screen for 1/30th of a second. This is know as progressive scan (hence the 'p')The quality is like watching 30 photographic images a second on TV. A 1080i signal comprises 1080 horizontal lines but all the lines are not displayed on-screen simultaneously. Instead, they are interlaced (hence the 'i'), ie every other lines is displayed for 1/60th of a second and then the alternate lines are displayed for 1/60th of a second. So, the frame rate is still 30 frames per second, but each frame is split into two fields, which your brain then puts together subconsciously.

Most of the time interlacing works fine, but for fast moving images, such as sports like baseball and hockey it can cause problems which manifest themselves as a 'stepping' effect on-screen. Progressive scan signals don't have this problem and so are better suited to sports.

To compare 1080i and 1080p, it is important to compare frame-rates. Due to interlacing, 1080i has twice the frame-rate but half the resolution of a 1080p signal using the same bandwidth, although, also due to interlacing, 1080i looks to be the same resolution, although with more flicker. Faster frame-rates are especially useful in sports shows and other shows with fast-moving action. However, on some flat screens that do not support interlacing, this instead becomes smeared or jarred artifacts.

Lawdie

Snake Plisken wrote: »

If your going for a 37" and up and are sitting very close to the set you will see the difference on 1080p movies on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. If your only HD plans are Sky HD, then don't bother investing in a 1080p set.
more inportantly for movie lovers is the requirement for their tv's to process 24fps movies, otherwise you'll get a judder effect which is really off putting.

So, based on this good information, whats the "bargain buy" on a 40" or 42" screen. Considering most people will be using it to run bog standard sky signal now. Any suggested models? Links?

Snake Plisken

Lawdie wrote: »

So, based on this good information, whats the "bargain buy" on a 40" or 42" screen. Considering most people will be using it to run bog standard sky signal now. Any suggested models? Links?

Whats your budget? I personally recommend Plasma 720p for standard def/sky, I myself went for a Panasonic 42", which I bought in from Germany, couple of owners here on boards very happy with it http://www.technikdirekt.de/main/en/lcd-plasma-tv/plasma-tv/201110/-/Article.html? or I see they have a similar model with a lower contrast ratio for 931 http://www.technikdirekt.de/main/en/lcd-plasma-tv/plasma-tv/184569/-/Article.html?

Lawdie

Cheers Snake, its within budget. I'm not going to jump on the HD bandwagon for a few years so SD picture quality is a key factor.
Looks sweet!

Lawdie

Found this on Komplett. Same model? Similar? older?

These model numbers are a bitch

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=338021&view=detailed#ProductTabs

CLADA

Are these the same machine? I see they are both 42pv7 models but...

This one mentions 1080p digital processing and 1080p digital remastering.

http://www.allianceelectric.ie/products/tv/plasmalcd/th42pv7.htm


This one has no mention of 1080p, just gives pixel resolution as 1024 x 768.

http://www.technikdirekt.de/main/en/lcd-plasma-tv/plasma-tv/184569/-/Article.html?

trap4

"So what to buy? Find yourself a nice 1366 X 768 TV produced by a Tier 1 manufacturer"

This is the only bit of the article that confuses me. I too, like a few of the commentators above, was all ready to get the Pannasonic 42PV70 but it's specified at 1024 x 768 like all the other 720p 42" plasmas I've seen. Is there such a thing as a 1366 x 768 plasma? Are 1024 vertical lines not enough?

bk

So can anyone recommend what sort of TV I should get (in the 46 - 50" range), Plasma v LCD and 720p v 1080p?

I use mostly SD SmartVision TV and DVD, but I'll also use PS3, 360 and use the 360 as a media centre frontend and I plan to connect a Mac mini to it.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

ongarite

this one is meant to be great. Its not full HD resolution but can accept 1080p input and will scale for the screen.
Seriously thinking of getting it but if anybody has it, advice taken..

Snake Plisken

Lawdie wrote: »

Found this on Komplett. Same model? Similar? older?

These model numbers are a bitch

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=338021&view=detailed#ProductTabs

Hi Lawdie, yes same model except you get the added DVB-T digital tuner, which at the moment is no good if your outside of Dublin but handy if u are in dublin as you can receive the test signals of the 4 terrestrial channels currently being broadcast. Decent price too, just wondering how much the shipping is?

311

If anyone is considering the panasoinc plasma's ,check out the 37PV70 and 42PV70 ,when they are displaying the same image together.

I was convinced the 37 looked better ,thats why I went for it over the 42.
DID in lucan have the two sharing a good signal and peats in parnell street.

Personally ,I think the 37 is better because it has a 1024 X 720 resoution ,which matches 720p perfectly.

stevejazzx

Sponge Bob wrote: »

SKY HD only 720p, not worth the upgrade to my mind. 1080p is something else altogether

what?
Digital TV - SDTV:

• 480i - 704x480 interlaced
• 480p - 704x480 progressive

Digital-HDTV:

• 720p - 1280x720 progressive
• 1080i - 1920x1080 interlaced
• 1080p - 1920x1080 progressive

More Accurate - Listing the resolution

720p = 1280 x 720 (1080i)
regular tv is something like less than half that therefore 720p is a massive upgrade!

obviously though 1080p is amazing but the more reviews i've read comapring the two it's quite hard to tell them apart!
like good mp3 and wav i imagine

cairnrua

was reading all the tech info given here over last while. now I was wondering what tv to buy! I am on chorus in lmk city. was recently updated. room could only take 26" - 27"max. i know the panasonic tx26lxd70 is one of the best. But at E999 or something less!!! what about the alternatives? Samsung (which specific model?), toshiba regza 26"!!, or
lg 27" - again which is best for me? am looking at budget E500 to £650. any suggestions and advice. With v good picture, with some depth, though i know i wont get perfection at this money.
thanks all.

workaccount

Quick one here. I have a 720P samsung that can go 1080i also. How do I change the set to 1080i though or does it adjust automatically depending on the signal going to it. It's a samsung btw.