Tongue over bit

togster

;)Any ideas how to stop it? Besides a tight flash-band. Horse works well but not pretty for a dressage test and we have young event horse champs coming up. new ride too and hate trying to fix other peoples mistakes.

Any ideas much appreciated

fits

How about a bit with a port in it. (thats dressage legal)

What is the horse being ridden in atm? Have you looked at his oral conformation? I'd try a few different bits.. have had a lot of success with a french link loose ring snaffle.

togster

Its not legal in eventing here. His teeth are fine just a habit i guess. I heard its from breaking the horse with the bit too low in his mouth (making his mouth). I know the bit you are talking about Fits agree it does work however i can't use it here.

fits

I've never had personal experience with this problem, but I'd imagine its an evasionary tactic that you need to get him out of the habit of. Would you maybe try schooling the horse in a ported snaffle for a while? And avoid putting in an ordinary one for as long as possible until the horse gets out of the habit? Just a suggestion.

I personally dont like using flashes and grakles to hold a horses mouth shut... it kind of goes against the 'acceptance' principle a little I think.

Its definitely not a problem I fancy dealing with.

togster

Thanks fits ill try and maybe put him in the snaffle for the competition.

fits

I looked up suggestions on another forum and someone suggested a thin bridoon snaffle.
Some horses just find a thick bit too uncomfortable and feel the need to get their tongue over... That would work in a different situation to the ported snaffle.

One other suggestion was a hanging cheek french link, as the hanging cheeks tend to lay higher in the mouth.

I reckon its going to be a case of trial and error.

togster

Good advice. He is currently riding in a wide bar snaffle and seems like his gums are pressed a bit hard. Ill suggest it to owner and see. She is quiet tempermental (the owner!!) so i need to be careful!

Siogfinsceal

what type of event is it? As far as I know under eventing ireland rules a grakle is allowed in the dressage phase of the event? I use a grackle - the type with the metal rings on my mare as shes a brat for cocking her jaw and sticking out her tongue. Ive tried the nice way i.e. changing her bit etc but the grackle is the only thing that gets a result. It does go against acceptance but when mine has her tongue over the bit and her jaw cocked shes dangerous as I cannot turn

Failing that you could try a french link snaffle - the link might distract his tongue. the hanging cheek variant that fitz mentioned is popular at the moment. Failing that theres always a tongue strap although I am unsure if they are allowed at all?

fits

Siogfinsceal wrote: »

It does go against acceptance but when mine has her tongue over the bit and her jaw cocked shes dangerous as I cannot turn

Like everything else the grakle has its uses. I can hardly talk about acceptance with my 18 year old mare who isnt very well schooled.

But when bringing on a younger horse, I'd personally try and get them to accept a bit first before going the grakle or drop route (and I did have success with the french link with my mouthy youngster who is with me no more)

Siogfinsceal

yup fench link is my favourite choice. Any of the ponies I compete on for dressage are ridden in my french link snaffle and they go much better in it seems to stop them leaning on the bit as much too as they play with the middle link. Its only my own one I had to resort to the grckle with but to be fair shes never going to be a dressage horse !

fits

Siogfinsceal wrote: »

but to be fair shes never going to be a dressage horse !

I can sympathise with that one

I've a feeling Duch and Siog are kindred spirits

FLASHDANCE

togster wrote: »

;)Any ideas how to stop it? Besides a tight flash-band. Horse works well but not pretty for a dressage test and we have young event horse champs coming up. new ride too and hate trying to fix other peoples mistakes.

Any ideas much appreciated

Hi Togster,
I know what you are feeling,
There is a rubber piece you can get that you attach to your bit if you try this while schooling at home and the horse might learn that it cant throw its tongue over the bit with this device and might learn not to do it then, Or what about a waterford bit its a snaffle with a chain like mouthpiece there horse can play with this and encourages salvation and therefore might forget to throw his tongue over the bit, Is your horse ridden in flash at the present? A grackle is good to a certain consent but there horses they are liable to do anything that they arent meant to do,,,:D

togster

Hi thanx for the replies. Im currently riding him in a snaffle with a plate that extends back his mouth a bit. Seems to be working and hopefully he will get out of it. For competition coming up we must ride in snaffles-

johnny_g

and old way i was shown.... and it works....well, it works on young horses anyway.... will try explain but its difficult to do without showing you..... pass a piece of twine through the hole in the middle of the snaffle then tie it secure. keep equal amounts of twine loose at both ends of the bit.....put the bit in the horses month with the twine and then tie both ends of it to the centre of the horses nose on the noseband. so it looks like half a flash.... this sounds severe but its not at all....it simple holds the bit high in the horses mouth and stops him getting his tongue over it because the twine stops it.... might have to see it to catch what im saying... id definately works on young horses and stops them forming the habit in the very early stages....dont know how good it is at correcting a horse who already does it....i know it sounds a bit odd but its a kind age old traditiona and definately does the trick...!

fits

That'd look really good at an eventing competition Baler twine... the answer to all evils

Similar theory to the hanging cheek I suppose. One of those orange racing nosebands would probably do a similar job.

johnny_g

i think if you left it to the day of the competition you would be leaving it a bit late:rolleyes: ...
the idea would be to get the horse out of the habit when your at home practising then you wont need all the other fancy accessories mentioned on the day of the competitions....:)

fits

johnny_g wrote: »

i think if you left it to the day of the competition you would be leaving it a bit late:rolleyes: ...
the idea would be to get the horse out of the habit when your at home practising then you wont need all the other fancy accessories mentioned on the day of the competitions....:)

I know I know... its just the idea of Togster riding a dressage test with a bit of baler twine holding the bit in the mouth tickles me ever so slightly.:D

johnny_g

i can imagine..... no i never intended him to go into the ring with it!!! it is a good way to train them and then they wont rely on the other tongue plates etc... have done tack expensions for eventing and they're not allowed...

skink

johnny_g wrote: »

and old way i was shown.... and it works....well, it works on young horses anyway.... will try explain but its difficult to do without showing you..... pass a piece of twine through the hole in the middle of the snaffle then tie it secure. keep equal amounts of twine loose at both ends of the bit.....put the bit in the horses month with the twine and then tie both ends of it to the centre of the horses nose on the noseband. so it looks like half a flash.... this sounds severe but its not at all....it simple holds the bit high in the horses mouth and stops him getting his tongue over it because the twine stops it.... might have to see it to catch what im saying... id definately works on young horses and stops them forming the habit in the very early stages....dont know how good it is at correcting a horse who already does it....i know it sounds a bit odd but its a kind age old traditiona and definately does the trick...!

I nicer way to do it is to use tights instead of twine, like you see the lads at the races using them for tongue ties!

my new mount used to persistently stick his out, i changed to a rubber D ring snaffle, and he has stopped completely, sometimes they just dont't like the metal!

togster

Had my first competition recently and he went really well although he did stick his tongue out at the judges right as he passed the jeep they were judging in. He came 2nd though so i think i will stick with the plate idea for a while. Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Might even try the tights or string idea just to amuse fits!

Happy new year horsey peeps!