A great big illogical mess

guy_awoke

Ok this is something everyone already knows but I feel I have to get it off my chest.

Road layouts, markings and signs: Atrocious.

I'm talking about every single aspect here. From where signs are placed in advance of a junction, which way they are facing, conflicting information, ambigious markings and signs, completely faded road markings, poor sodium type street lighting at night, traffic signals obscured by trees, bushes or even man made objects placed directly in front of them. Illogical, dangerous and just plain daft intersections. Uneven road surfaces, appalling and mind numblingly random directional information, lack of continuity speed limit signs, dangerously forgotten signs left around after roadworks or temporary diversions, no entry signs that don't quite face you the right way, lane change markings that don't occur sufficiently in advance. Motorway exit signs placed at competely daft locations way too near to the exit. I could go on and on. Just using Dublin as an example I'm sure everyone has a favourite example of just how appalling it all is.

Many people become oblivious to all of it because they are going the same way all the time or have a sufficient local knowledge built up over the years.
The whole point of good road signs, markings and junction layouts is that a complete stranger to the city, provided they have planned their route and follow direction sings and road markings, should be able to get from a to b maybe getting a bit lost along they way, but not under the sort of idiotic dysfunctional systems around a place like Dublin. In many cities it's not easy to get from a to b easily but if one applies a certain logic they will get there. In Dublin, logic seems to make no difference and there is always an air of worrying uncertainty when trying to get around.

Some may think this is a charming aspect to a place that adds an air of character. That is utter nonsense. It exists because of appalling, incompetent, horrifically managed and ill-thought out systems by people who couldn't care less because it makes no difference to them, because they are seemingly unanswerable to anyone for their responsibilities.

Another thing: What on earth is up with the paint used for road markings. It is clearly of vastly inferior quality than that used around most of europe including the UK. In no time at all it has almost completely faded leaving a barely distinguishable mark. I mean where in the world are they getting this stuff???? Is it actually even intended for the purpose for which it is being used?????? Is it being thinned out to make it go the extra mile?????

What's going on folks? Can you believe that some people were serious about hosting the world cup in this country. Can you imagine the absolute chaos.

Anyways. I'm done.

Thanks for hearing me.

MT

I tend to just browse these forums now but I can't help but contribute on this occasion.

On Tuesday I had an appointment in Altnagelvin Hospital in Derry - I live in Fermanagh, NI - and afterwards drove out to Letterkenny before going home. All I can say is that in comparison to what's on offer in urban areas of NI the standard of signage in and around Letterkenny is an absolute shambles.

I only wish that I had had a camera with me as there was just example after example of shoddy, un-maintained, poorly thought out or non-existent signage. It's all the more ironic due to the fact that just about the only neat and properly erected signpost in the town proudly explained that Letterkenny was a winner of the Tidy Towns award. I mean what's going on here? Are the state of signposts, footpaths, roadside kerbing, traffic lights, street lighting and road markings just not considered when adjudicating for such awards in the Republic? Either that or the standard must be diabolically low if Letterkenny managed to bag something.

Now such prizes are usually only back slapping exercises for local councilors and dignitaries but in the greater scheme of things can't those in authority see that it makes no difference to a Dutch tourist how well arranged the flower baskets around the town hall are - if the signposting and footpaths are an unkempt and battered mess AND he manages to get lost on account or these shortcomings he'll still leave thinking the place is a dump. Aside from their primary function as guides for efficient traveling, signposts, etc. now make a sizeable contribution to the built environment of an Irish town. If they’re shoddily installed or left in an unkempt state they detract from the entire appearance of the area.

Now before I get called a hypocrite, I'll freely admit that signposting, etc. isn't always perfect in NI. But from my experiences of driving around Ireland I've come to expect one rule of thumb - no matter how bad or in as poor a state as you might encounter roadside structures in NI you'll always find worse - and often way worse - across the border. If county councils excel at nothing else down south then making the Roads Service NI seem extremely competent must be their only achievement to date when it comes to traffic signage.

To give a more specific example of bad practice unfolding in front of my eyes I encountered Donegal County Council doing an absolute bodge job of installing new signposting when I traveled out the R250 West out of LK and then turned onto the R251 towards the village of Churchill. To their credit DCC are now erecting the durable plate signage on two posts in place of the older, cluttered - and usually pointing the wrong way - fingerposts. The former have been installed as standard practice at both rural and urban junctions right across the UK since the 60's. But I wont begrudge, credit where credit is due - better late than never. You’re almost half a century late but well done for getting there eventually, DCC.

There I'm afraid my congratulations have to end. For while the correct theory has finally been arrived at the correct execution of the policy will no doubt require another long wait. At all of the junctions I encountered along the R250/R251 the plate signs had been thrown up some way short of the top of their posts. This, despite the fact that the TSD explicitly states that signs should be mounted at the top of their support posts. The alternative – couldn’t-care-less – approach in this part of Donegal just looks incredibly half-arsed.

Then there was the failure to remove the older outdated or incorrect signs. In NI when signage is replaced the removal of older signs is seen as part and parcel of the same job – not an extra task to be forgotten about. So all along my route I came across junctions cluttered up with both the new signage and the older finger posts still in situ. And from experience in other parts of Donegal I’d bet my house that the old signs will still be there five years hence. So what should be simple junctions with easy to follow signage will remain visually cluttered with two sets of directions needlessly overwhelming motorists.

At one junction – between the R251 and the R254 I think – the council had actually updated the signage three or four times in the past but had not removed any of the outdated signposts or anomalies that resulted. As a result the junction had the combined clutter of a finger post (possibly from the 80s), an incorrectly placed advance direction sign AT THE JUNCTION from the last attempt to improve signage about a decade ago and now the latest flag type signage.

In addition, this junction laughably also managed to combine a STOP sign with YIELD markings on the road surface – tbh, I wasn’t that shocked as I’ve come across this only-in-Ireland type of contradiction in signage at other junctions in Donegal.

At the same junction the advance tourist signage for the St. Colmcille heritage centre had seemingly long since lurched to an acute angle having fallen off one of its posts and yet despite all the work updating other signs at the spot, this had never been rectified. So you have all the men there on site doing signage work and you can’t even get them to repair existing signs, or remove the outdated ones – do DCC workers have contracts specifying that they should do as little as possible on each job? Then there was the lack of at-the-junction signage to follow on from the advance tourist signage when I arrived at the junction. Again, this is all elementary stuff that would be seen as no big challenge over here in NI.

There’s also a good chance that had this junction been in NI there would have been roadside kerbing to clearly demarcate the verge from the road and to stop the latter becoming rutted from people driving onto it. I find that the lack of this feature tends to detract from the clarity of rural junctions, and isn’t always found in NI but I don’t think I’ve ever come across kerbing at rural junctions on minor routes in the Republic.

I won’t go on any further as I could probably compile a book of thoughtless mistakes on that short trip across the border. Suffice to say that there were the usual number of warning diamonds/yields/stops partially knocked over or around the wrong way – due to a dumb refusal to use either non-slip brackets or two posts – and of course the old favourite of placing chevron signs where a road narrows misleading motorists into erroneously believing there’s a sharp bend ahead at night.

Anyway, when from outside the jurisdiction you really have to see it before you could believe it. Try telling a foreigner with no experience of Ireland about the current signposting madness and they’d think you were making it up. And I can’t see any major chance of improvement until the Republic strips the inept councils of responsibility in this area and hands control of signposting, etc. over to a centralised agency like the NRA/DoT. Thus, ushering in a similar setup that pertains here with Roads Service/DoE – two-bit local authorities being kept at arms length from the transport network.

/rant over.