USA Hire car stolen

Dazcon

During a recent trip to the USA ,the hire car I was using was stolen . The story is that I drove the hire car into the return compound and was directed ( as you would expect )to park the car by a person in the compund and leave the keys in it . Trouble was the guy in the compound was a scumbag who disappeared with the car. The hire company are now saying that my insurance is void because I didnt take care of the keys and allowed the car to be taken with the keys. They indicated they will be claiming off me for the loss of the car. My only argument at the moment is that they didn't take care of the security of their compound and allowed this guy to operate in there.I you can't trust the people in the compound how do you know who to leave the car with ?.They have CC tv footage of the incident and of the guy in the compound and they also filed the police report. i had taken out all the usual insurance and the extra daily insurance they offer when you collect the car. Whats the point of all the insurance if they wont pay out when the car is stolen , I've had some sleep less nights since this happened . Any advice would be appreciated.

peasant

first step:

Cancel your credit card (or any other financial information the rental company may have from you) and get a different one.
That way they can't take money without your consent.

second step:
get professional legal advice

kmick

First off - stop losing sleep. You live in Europe and they operate in the US so there is no way they can get a penny from you.

Secondly cancel the credit card you booked this car on immediately before they take any charges from it. Do not delay with this ring your bank now. Dont mention this incident to the bank just tell them you use the card a lot on the internet and change it every couple of years for security purposes.

Thirdly just ignore this company.

Problem over. Its not your issue if someone stole their hire car after you delivered it to their compound. Next time drop the keys to the desk.

Henry Ford III

kmick wrote: »

....You live in Europe and they operate in the US so there is no way they can get a penny from you.....

A contract exists, so it's entirely possible.

R.O.R

And if it was one of the big hire car companies, they operate in Europe as well as the US. One in particular has most of it's European functions right here in Dublin.

mick.fr

kmick wrote: »

First off - stop losing sleep. You live in Europe and they operate in the US so there is no way they can get a penny from you.

Secondly cancel the credit card you booked this car on immediately before they take any charges from it. Do not delay with this ring your bank now. Dont mention this incident to the bank just tell them you use the card a lot on the internet and change it every couple of years for security purposes.

Thirdly just ignore this company.

Problem over. Its not your issue if someone stole their hire car after you delivered it to their compound. Next time drop the keys to the desk.

I would not be so confident if I were you.
For the price of a brand new car lost, it is worth for them to follow this in Europe.
All it takes is just a court order from the US, and then send it to a court here for enforcement approval. Cheap procedure. All EU countries, including Ireland, have this type of process in place.
Americans are very very keen to go through the all kind of thing.
Even a simple speeding ticket, since many many years, in the US, you were almost sure to get it through the Embassy a couple of months later in your home country.

Dazcon

Good suggestion about the credit card ,will do that tonight. I'm guessing they are looking on it that since I didnt get a receipt or a signature when I came into the compound that it was still my responsibility. Then again the thief would have probably signed if I'd asked him so that argument shouldn't stand. I'll see what a solicitor has to say.
I wondered how they would get the money out of me - would they send a bounty hunter -- or am I watching too much TV!

Henry Ford III

They could get whatever is agreed on the contract. Get legal advice.

givyjoe81

Dazcon wrote: »

Good suggestion about the credit card ,will do that tonight. I'm guessing they are looking on it that since I didnt get a receipt or a signature when I came into the compound that it was still my responsibility. Then again the thief would have probably signed if I'd asked him so that argument shouldn't stand. I'll see what a solicitor has to say.
I wondered how they would get the money out of me - would they send a bounty hunter -- or am I watching too much TV!

I wouldnt be getting too worried just yet, do cancel the card though. Yes it is a contract of course, so do you still have a copy of their terms and conditions? IF not go find them and check what it says regarding the procedure for dropping back the car, if you did as instructed on terms and conditions, then they do not have any case, also was this guy an opportunist theid, or did he work there? In many cased in all areas of business the guys who make these legal threats dont actually know the law so until you get legal letters rest easy.

Gwynston

This happened to two colleagues of mine a few years ago on a business trip to Munich. Except that it was even more dodgy: On returning the rental car at the airport, they actually handed over the keys to some official-looking guy with a clipboard. It wasn't even in a compound as far as I'm aware! :rolleyes:

As I remember, the police contacted them a few days later as the car was missing. I think the insurance covered the loss, but it was a business trip, so probably the all top-whack boxes were ticked and nothing excluded.

drdre

cancel the credit card asap and just ask the insurance company to send out another card with a new number.They should do that for you with no hassle as i have got it done before.Then just sit back and relax.:)

sharkman

drdre wrote: »

cancel the credit card asap and just ask the insurance company to send out another card with a new number.They should do that for you with no hassle as i have got it done before.Then just sit back and relax.:)

Insurance companies don't issue Credit Cards !!!!:D

Back on subject , I used to work in customer relations for one of the big Car Hire firms (#1)and the best advise would be to get legal advice immediately . They large companies have teams devoted to recouping losses , whether you are resident in the country the loss took place or not !

Do you have a copy of your RA ? They will probably look for the deductible from you !

kmick

Well get legal advice if you like but it is going to cost a lot. I would cancel the card and then adopt a wait and see approach. obviously if they can come after you over here then it makes it trickier. I would be surprised if they could though. I mean the procedure is they will claim from their insurance company and then if they can be bothered the Insurance company will come after you. I would make discrete enquiries to the Police Station for a copy of the incident report that the hire car company filed. See what it says and report back here for further advice.

drdre

sharkman wrote: »

Insurance companies don't issue Credit Cards !!!!:D

Hahah, I meant credit card company.Im having a bit of a bad day

MercMad

kmick wrote: »

Well get legal advice if you like but it is going to cost a lot. I would cancel the card and then adopt a wait and see approach. obviously if they can come after you over here then it makes it trickier. I would be surprised if they could though. I mean the procedure is they will claim from their insurance company and then if they can be bothered the Insurance company will come after you. I would make discrete enquiries to the Police Station for a copy of the incident report that the hire car company filed. See what it says and report back here for further advice.

............I think the problem is that because the OP handed the keys to someone technically it wasn't stolen and the rental agencies insurance are refusing to pay THEM. Therefore they want the OP to pay !

I really dont have any advice, but wish the OP the best of luck !

BanzaiBk

MercMad wrote: »

............I think the problem is that because the OP handed the keys to someone technically it wasn't stolen and the rental agencies insurance are refusing to pay THEM. Therefore they want the OP to pay !

I really dont have any advice, but wish the OP the best of luck !

In his first post the OP says he left the keys in the car.

Cancel your CC, contact your solicitor/get a solicitor. That's the best advice I could give I'm afraid.

Dazcon

Thanks for the advice, first off I cancelled my credit card so no more charges can be put through by them. Then visited my solicitor. The position is that I was entitled to take instruction from any staff member in their compound . It was up to them to make sure no one was posing as an employee . also once I entered their compound and was instructed to park by an "employee" I had effictively handed over the car to them . I think any more correspondance will be handled by solicitor in case I say the wrong thing.

PRND

I work for a credit card company and can assure you that cancelling the card does not stop charges going onto it.

If the hire car company got authorisation from your card issuer at the time of rental , which they will have, then the card issuer will pay that amount and then it will be the card issuer after you and not the rental company.

MercMad

PRND wrote: »

I work for a credit card company and can assure you that cancelling the card does not stop charges going onto it.

If the hire car company got authorisation from your card issuer at the time of rental , which they will have, then the card issuer will pay that amount and then it will be the card issuer after you and not the rental company.

.......yes but surely the pre-authorisation would be for roughly the amount of the rental and not for the full price of a new car !!

Guy:Incognito

Do they not have an actual employee in this compound or is there loads of cars just sittign there with the keys in. This must be a regualr occurance if there is.

unkel

Dazcon wrote: »

Then visited my solicitor. The position is that I was entitled to take instruction from any staff member in their compound . It was up to them to make sure no one was posing as an employee

That's good news, you must be relieved. Let us know on this thread about any further developments!

PRND

It depends on the rental contract. If he has signed the contract and they have a physical imprint of his card or else an electronic receipt to show they have had it in their possession then they might not need an auth.

The bottom line though is that closing your account is not enough to stop charges being applied.

People often pay their tv license by credit card, close their account and then 10 months or so later they get a recurring debit.

MercMad

PRND wrote: »

It depends on the rental contract. If he has signed the contract and they have a physical imprint of his card or else an electronic receipt to show they have had it in their possession then they might not need an auth.

The bottom line though is that closing your account is not enough to stop charges being applied.

People often pay their tv license by credit card, close their account and then 10 months or so later they get a recurring debit.

.....good info indeed !

I never knew that about the TV licence, how do you reclaim the money if your customer has closed the account ?

Sorry to go OT !

DonJose

Thats strange, I've rented cars in Chicago and New York and whenever I've left the car back the employees told me to leave the keys in the car, but they always issued me a receipt. Also when leaving the compund I had to hand in my rental agreement at a security box before I could leave. Strnage how they let a guy out without a rental agreement.

Run_to_da_hills

Dazcon wrote: »

Trouble was the guy in the compound was a scumbag who disappeared with the car. The hire company are now saying that my insurance is void because I didnt take care of the keys and allowed the car to be taken with the keys.

How do you know that this wasnt a scam? It wouldn't take much to pay some young lad to drive the car out of the compound and around the block. How big was the hire company and was it a franchise?

MercMad

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

How do you know that this wasnt a scam? It wouldn't take much to pay some young lad to drive the car out of the compound and around the block. How big was the hire company and was it a franchise?

...........good point !

PRND

Sorry to continue OT.

You treat it like any other balance. Send a statement, request payment.

If there is a recurring debit coming out such as tv license or electricity the customer has to contact that merchant and request them to stop.

If there are unauthorised transactions following closure, the customer treats them like any other unauthorised transation. Firstly contact the merchant, ask them to reverse the debit and if they don't then the customer requests the card issuer to charge the transaction back.

It may be an open and shut case and the issuer can either decide to make a refund instantly or decline the chargeback request instantly. It may require further information to make the above decisions or go to a arbitration committee.

Golferx

Dazcon wrote: »

T................Then visited my solicitor. The position is that I was entitled to take instruction from any staff member in their compound . It was up to them to make sure no one was posing as an employee . also once I entered their compound and was instructed to park by an "employee" I had effictively handed over the car to them . I think any more correspondance will be handled by solicitor in case I say the wrong thing.

May I wish you the best in getting this resolved but I doubt your solicitor's advice will be the end of the matter. No doubt they will be able to pay a lawyer to give opposing advice.

I've routinely canceled credit cards after returning rental cars to prevent unauthorised transactions. FA good they are if you cannot do that.

Dazcon

Good news . Just got confirmation that the insurers have closed this case. They reviewed the police report and the cctv footage and decided it was stolen from the location and not from me. I can now breathe a sigh of relief and work out how to spend the 27K they were going to charge me !!
Let that be a lesson to all who use hire cars .........

drdre

Dazcon wrote: »

Good news . Just got confirmation that the insurers have closed this case. They reviewed the police report and the cctv footage and decided it was stolen from the location and not from me. I can now breathe a sigh of relief and work out how to spend the 27K they were going to charge me !!
Let that be a lesson to all who use hire cars .........

Thats great news.Well done

unkel

Dazcon wrote: »

Good news . Just got confirmation that the insurers have closed this case. They reviewed the police report and the cctv footage and decided it was stolen from the location and not from me. I can now breathe a sigh of relief and work out how to spend the 27K they were going to charge me !!
Let that be a lesson to all who use hire cars .........

Excellent! Thanks for reporting back here

old boy

you need to contact your card company, notify them that no payments are to be made against your old card unless you contact them first, name a particular company or person, they will ask you to give them the name of a particular company or person in writing, i needed to do this two months ago and it has worked to perfection, this should ease your mind somewhat,

Our man in Havana

Surely a CC company would decline a 27K charge if you did not have a limit that high?

Dazcon

When I cancelled my card I told the card company to decline any further charges from america. They also said they had no further outstanding authorizations against my card as the hire company had already used what they had for a small charge (sat nav hire I think).
My credit limit was very high so I reduced it substantially in case anything like this happens again.
I asked how they would go about getting the money from me :

1 Credit card . As that is used as contract.
2 My own car insurance ( which I know wont cover me.)
3 The courts.Which is enforcable in ireland.

Glad I dont have to find out it works !

MercMad

I'm glad it worked out well for you, I'd say you have had a horrible few weeks wondering about it !

Thanks for the info PRND, I think I will be a bit more acreful about who I use my card with !!

I didn't realise there could be a recurring debt with a CC !

Chevy RV

Same as above. That's pretty scary stuff to think that your card can be used after you cancel it. I will be more careful about mine too;)


Chevy RV

Our man in Havana

I have been renting cars in loads of airports around the world, and what the OP experienced is typical of some eastern European airports. Prague for instance has a communal car return lot where you hand the car and all the paperwork over to an airport employee. You then go back the rental counter and settle up. By contrast in the USA the car rental places are normally off site and you return directly to the rental company's compound and the rental company employee issues a receipt there and then.

I would have reckoned that the hire company in the OP's case was on a hiding to nothing from the start. It could have happened very easily to any one. I would say that there was negligence on the rental company's part as an unauthorised person got into the compound. This could have been easily foreseen that such a person could get in and they should have taken steps to prevent this.

Dazcon

I was fairly sure it had to be their fault for not ensuring the security of their own compound , but that didnt stop me from loosing sleep until I was offically told I was off the hook.

deman

Great news all round.

Now go to bed and some shuteye

DonJose

Excellent news, next time make sure you get a receipt, the officals guys carry portable printing/scanning devices that scan the rental agreement and print your receipt.

DonJose

Dazcon wrote: »

I was fairly sure it had to be their fault for not ensuring the security of their own compound , but that didnt stop me from loosing sleep until I was offically told I was off the hook.

Now you can sue them for emotional distress