Stephens Green

markpb

Does anyone know what the cycle path on Stepehens Green west is for? No matter which way you use it, you end up going the wrong way on a one way street. The only thing I can guess is that it's for getting onto York St?

Itsfixed

If you mean the one that goes by the Luas station, yes, I've wondered that too, particularly since I was stopped by a garda for cycling through and going straight on t(against one way traffic, albeit) to rejoin St stephens green south(?) and round to dawson street. Not strictly legal, but its so confusing and contradictory that I have no problems in principle breaking the law, if there is one!

Bicyclegadabout

I believe it's designed to go onto York st. OR get off the bike and park it on the fabulous bike locking facilities and then get the Luas.
BUT: There are no bike locking facilities, and the Luas goes pretty much the same way you came, so I dunno.

I've another question: Over on Stephens Green West, are bikes allowed in that contra flow bus lane?

DavyD_83

Bicyclegadabout wrote: »

I've another question: Over on Stephens Green West, are bikes allowed in that contra flow bus lane?

Presuming you mean the east. And IIRC from my little glance at the new ROTD we're actually not allowed use contra-flow bus lanes at all.
Not that thats gonna stop me:rolleyes:

Victor

The scheme was never completed as intended. There is meant to be a two-way cycle facility along the entire length of the Luas on St. Strephen's Green.

markpb

What stopped it, lack of money or the realisation that it was only for cyclists anyway?

Victor

markpb wrote: »

What stopped it, lack of money or the realisation that it was only for cyclists anyway?

Indifference.

tywy

Isn't there a sign that say no straight on except for cyclists and then there's a cycle lane on the path but once you come off the cycle lane I think you're cyclnig the wrong way down a one way street until you get to the traffic lights that lead from Grafton St to the Green...

Itsfixed

yes, exactly!

BeerNut

This was part of my daily commute up until January last and puzzled me greatly. The plans for the Green didn't exactly say that there would be two-way cycling on Stephen's Green West, but that lane makes no sense without it.

I wrote to the Council in October last year:

BeerNut wrote:

Hi,

Can you please tell me the current status of the proposed cycle lane on Stephen's Green West.

Coming from Harcourt Street, a sign directs cyclists across the red-brick area in front of the College of Surgeons but there is no sign that the lane ends there, nor is it continued past the shopping centre to Grafton Street. The traffic lights at the top of Grafton Street are positioned to be approached from the north side of the Green only.

Is the cycle lane due to be continued along the northern stretch of Stephen's Green West, and if so have you any indication of when this work might be carried out?

Any information would be helpful.

After a couple of reminders, they eventually sent me a letter, from the Roads and Traffic Department saying:

The Corpo wrote:

I refer to your correspondence dated 24th October, 2006 and 9th November, 2006 requesting information regarding the cycle track on St. Stephen’s Green West. According to our records and the Traffic Inspector, the cycle lane on St Stephen’s Green is complete.

No further work on cycle tracks is planned at the moment.

Why they stopped this project part way through I've no idea, but they definitely did. I had my story of why I wasn't cycling the wrong way along a one way street in my head for ages. Then I got a job on the other side of town and never went back to the Green.

markpb

Time for another email methinks Do you have an email address?

Victor

I found the drawing, will try to post it later.

uberwolf

I have decided on a use for it.

In order to allow cyclists avoid the cobbled street, they can proceed straight and take the next right instead, when coming from Grafton St.

Case closed.

BeerNut

uberwolf wrote: »

In order to allow cyclists avoid the cobbled street, they can proceed straight and take the next right instead, when coming from Grafton St.

So the sign on the south end of the track, which permits cyclists cross the front of the Surgeons travelling towards Grafton Street, is superfluous and in need of replacing with a "No entry for anyone" sign?

markpb

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread but it is mine

After two months and lots of poking, I got a reply from DCC:

The existing arrangement with No Entry except for cyclists on the buildout in front of the College of Surgeons is more than a little peculiar to say the least. While this is not legally a cycle lane,it does apparently direct cyclists the wrong way down one way streets. I am told that this was provided to allow cyclists have access to and from Grafton Street when Luas was being built. The provision of contra flow cycle lanes would seem to be justified and needed.

However, I have also been informed that the whole area from the College of Surgeons to the top of Dawson Street will be a major building site from next year onwards to facilitate work on the proposed underground Metro station and rail interconnector on the corner of St Stephen's Green. This will make any new work such as contra flow cycle lanes irrelevant for the moment.The plan is for the whole area to become a very large pedestrian space with no vehicular access. Hopefully it will also be possible to include cycle lanes and more cycle parking for which as you say there is a big demand in the area.

Victor

I am told that this was provided to allow cyclists have access to and from Grafton Street when Luas was being built.

The College of Surgeons plaza was built after the street was reconstructed which was well after Luas was completed.

I'll try to remember to dig our the drawings.

BeerNut

Cheers Mark.

Hell of an answer from the Corpo: "Yeah, it's mad isn't it? Pfft. Whaddayagonnado..."

As Victor says, this was put in after the works, and I particularly resent the suggestion that it was there during construction, having suffered many months of diverting by Cuffe Street and circumnavigating the Green like I was some sort of car.

DavyD_83

Sorry bout the thread resurrection.
But did any other boardsies get nabbed on this ridiculous stretch this morning. Was heading North on Stephen's green West. Smug bastard of a gard pulled in every cyclist that passed. He must have gotten practically every commuting cyclist who uses the green:(. There were 4 of us at once, and as i was heading off he'd stopped another 2. Apparently there'll be a summons on the way.
Anybody reckon there's a legitimate argument that would get me off?

markpb

Do you mean the stretch between RCSI and the lights at Grafton St? That's nuts! Hundreds of cyclists use it every day. Were any of you running the red light by any chance?

Morgan

DavyD_83 wrote: »

there were 4 of us at once

Could you not have overwhelmed him?

I haven't ridden there in some time - are there any signs/road markings to indicate you shouldn't continue after reaching the end of the cycle lane?

Gavin

Morgan wrote: »

Could you not have overwhelmed him?

That's a bit of a stereotype isn't it ! Not all cyclists stink

seamus

Morgan wrote: »

Could you not have overwhelmed him?

I haven't ridden there in some time - are there any signs/road markings to indicate you shouldn't continue after reaching the end of the cycle lane?

No, but from what I remember, it's simply a stretch of red brickwork without any signs indicating that it is in fact cycle track?

Ste.phen

I thought it had a big arrow with a strike through (i.e 'NO ENTRY'), but with a rectangular sign stuck on the bottoms saying 'Except Cyclists'?

TinyExplosions

Ste.phen wrote: »

I thought it had a big arrow with a strike through (i.e 'NO ENTRY'), but with a rectangular sign stuck on the bottoms saying 'Except Cyclists'?

It does, but I'm assuming the Guard was nabbing people on the one way bit after the brick part... if that makes sense?

rflynnr

DavyD_83 wrote: »

Apparently there'll be a summons on the way.
Anybody reckon there's a legitimate argument that would get me off?

If a summons implies a court appearance then it might be worth embracing: that particular sign/bricked over area is beyond ambiguous. Not only will a judge in all likelihood throw out the case but it might also lead him to advise the prosecuting guards not to bring such cases before the court again (at least until the status of that particular area is clarified by DCC). Mind you, I'm not the one who'd be in court...

Bunnyhopper

Sounds like a complete mess. Yet again the local authorities manage to make a dog's dinner of something that should be pretty straightforward and the cyclist ends up paying the price.

@ DavyD: Sorry to hear you got grief from the Garda. If it does go to court then I'd like to hear what happens.

Maybe we need to establish a Cyclists' Defence Fund to help pay for court challenges to this nonsense.

TinyExplosions

rflynnr wrote: »

If a summons implies a court appearance then it might be worth embracing: that particular sign/bricked over area is beyond ambiguous. Not only will a judge in all likelihood throw out the case but it might also lead him to advise the prosecuting guards not to bring such cases before the court again (at least until the status of that particular area is clarified by DCC). Mind you, I'm not the one who'd be in court...

I think it depends on where they were being nabbed... on the brick area, I think it would be thrown out, however if they were going the wrong direction on the one way streets either side of that area, then I suspect it'll stand up in court... it's stupid, but technically not against the law

Chips Lovell

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I think it depends on where they were being nabbed... on the brick area, I think it would be thrown out, however if they were going the wrong direction on the one way streets either side of that area, then I suspect it'll stand up in court.

Yes, if its after that brick area I can see why you'd get done for it. If you drove your car the wrong way down a one way street you'd expect to get done for it, so it shouldn't be any different with your bike.

I work nearby and you see cyclists pulling all sorts of crazy manouveres at that corner of the Green. Was just out of the office there an hour ago and saw three cyclists in succession riding into oncoming traffic.

Still, I'm surprised to hear the guards were pulling people in this morning. It's rare you see them do any enforcement on cyclists. If I had to guess, there was probably an incident there recently.

DavyD_83

Yep, to clarify, it was on the road between rcsi and grafton st, he was standing in front of his parked car just by dandelion. I told him the signing was ambiguous, his response was to point at the big white arrow on the road pointing towards RCSI "Theres nothing ambiguous about that". I asked were cyclists expected to cycle to end of red brick and dismount, which he thought was perfectly reasonable :rolleyes:. Also told me to take up any issues about poor road design with the council.
Meh, probably not worth arguing if the summons does turn up, but i do still feel slightly hard done by.
(Queue johnny law-abider : "but you broke the law...
I know, but its a stupid law!)

Chips Lovell

DavyD_83 wrote: »

I asked were cyclists expected to cycle to end of red brick and dismount, which he thought was perfectly reasonable :rolleyes:.

In fairness though, it's not like cars can continue on that way either. Cyclists aren't exactly being discriminated against.

markpb

el tonto wrote: »

In fairness though, it's not like cars can continue on that way either. Cyclists aren't exactly being discriminated against.

I think you're missing the point. From both sides, cyclists *can* continue past the end of the road but due to the fantastic ineptitude in DCC, both ends bring into facing the wrong way into a one way system.

TinyExplosions

markpb wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. From both sides, cyclists *can* continue past the end of the road but due to the fantastic ineptitude in DCC, both ends bring into facing the wrong way into a one way system.

Maybe it's to allow cyclists to use the junctions either side of the brick bit (heading towards the RCSI carpark etc)?

Chips Lovell

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Maybe it's to allow cyclists to use the junctions either side of the brick bit (heading towards the RCSI carpark etc)?

That's always been my assumption too.

blorg

I may be wrong here (it has happened) but IIRC:

(1) there is a "No entry"/one way street sign at the start of the brick bump bit with a specific exception for cyclists.
(2) there is no further "No entry"/one way street sign after the brick bump bit?

Now I am not 100% sure of point (2) here but if there is _not_ a further indication of a one way street surely this must mean that the street is in fact two way for cyclists, there just isn't a contra-flow lane painted (I am aware it dumps you on the right/"wrong" side of the road.)

Maybe someone could clarify point (2) above?

Micilin Muc

Last week as I was standing at St. Stephen's Green Luas stop at evening rush hour, I saw a horse and carriage come down St. Stephen's Green West (from Harcourt Street/Cuffe Street towards York Street), proceeded to use the "cycle lane" in front of RCSI and continued on down towards St. Stephen's Green Shopping Centre and Grafton Street. He wasn't going slow either - the horse was trotting.

Have the rules changed since this thread was last posted in (15 months ago)?

buffalo

Bloody horses and carriages - they should all have to pass a test! And be insured! With registration plates!

monument

Any update from the poster with the court date?

fenris

buffalo wrote: »

Bloody horses and carriages - they should all have to pass a test! And be insured! With registration plates!

And helmets, helmets for the horses!

DavyD_83

monument wrote: »

Any update from the poster with the court date?

Hey, I think this was me.
Had completely forgotten about the whole thing until just now. So no, I never heard any more about it. I figure the gard was just out to issue a warning. That or he whoever he reports to told him not to follow through, cos he seemed fairly intent on nailing people at the time.
He gave some country girl loads of grief, cos she gave him a non-Dublin address. "And will you be there to receive the summons...".
Ah, well. I learned my lesson;
Don't use that stretch when there's a Garda standing there