Global Warming is inevitable

gbh

There just doesn't seem to be the will among countries like the US, China and India to bother doing anything about global warming. Opec members are unlikely to cut back supply, nor are we in the West at a government or personal level, seemingly willing to cut back or substitute our demand for fossil fuels.

Those who could most make a difference, the US and China, have time and again said they don't care about climate change. Unilaterally it seems, the EU is now trying to curb emissions from cars. But EU emissions are a fraction of the total and unless there is a multilateral agreement, starting possibly with the G8 nations then it is pointless.

Americans believe it is a human right to go around driving big gas guzzlers, fly maybe 10 miles down the road, and drive the car if they are only crossing the street. So I don't see a major turnaround in American thinking, especially if those arch proponents of non-interventionism, the Republicans, gain control of the White House next year. The majority of Americans are simply incapable of getting their heads around abstract concepts such as global warming and equating their behaviour to global warming. All they want is cheap gas and cheap heating oil so they can get on with their lives. And their usual blinkered, insular, American-centric view, combined with a pure ignorance of science and intelligent debate is the major cause of global warming and will be into the future unless they can change soon.

SuperSean11

Its to late now all we can do is pose pone it as long as possible and hope for the best. Unless we find some super fuel that works in regular cars costs little and has no emissions very soon but thats unlikely.

BaRcOe

Ireland has had a Huge improvement creating awareness about the effects of Global Warming. I totally agree with you on this matter.

Most people in Ireland Recycle now! So I do think Ireland is playing its part in reducing C02 Emmisions. Wind Farms have also been more popular in Ireland the last 5 years!

It is inevitable but at the end of the day we will all be well gone be4 anything major happens.

radioactiveman

I hope to god a democrat is voted in as the next president. They have at least a strategy for dealing with the problem & anything is better than an ex oil businessman.
If oil and coal were taxed to reflect the true damage they cause it might help to force people into becoming aware of their energy consumption but I think a change in thinking like that would have to come from within the US itself..

SuperSean11

radioactiveman wrote: »

If oil and coal were taxed to reflect the true damage they cause it might help to force people into becoming aware of their energy consumption .

If the cost of oil went up i dont think it would help because people dont have the option of a non-oil vehicles it would just piss people off

eggplantman

SuperSean11 wrote: »

If the cost of oil went up i dont think it would help because people dont have the option of a non-oil vehicles it would just piss people off

there will be solar powered cars soon.

NP14

Global warming is indeed inevitable, so is global cooling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI

I think AGW is a figleaf to politically mask the decline of oil, and to help
create a world currency and a world government.

These things will be brought about because humans are herding animals and as such are easily manipulated.

NP14

Were you moved to you beliefs in part because of the evidence of polar bears trapped on floating ice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw5WdmuGSfM

NP14

You won't get this from the BBC.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/15/ocean_currents_melt_planet/

SuperSean11

eggplantman wrote: »

there will be solar powered cars soon.

Where did you get this information???

Hal1

We will need solar powered boats not cars, if GW has the type of impact as the models predict. Water cooled engines would be a nice touch too. Tis a serious thread.;)

gbh

In response to the Global Warming sceptics including one on this thread,

Who held as a matter of dogma that the earth was flat and any man or woman who said otherwise was a fool? Answer: Conservatives.

Who said the sun revolved around the earth and anyone who said otherwise was a heretic? Answer: Conservatives.

Who is most likely to say Hiv/Aids is a punishment from God? Answer: Conservatives.

How many times do conservatives/republicans come out with nonsense like this and hold it to be fact and the rest of us fools?

Oh, one more, who continues to hold in the face of undeniable scientific evidence that the world is heating up, the polar ice caps are melting, and extreme global weather phenonoma are on the rise including tropical storms. that global warning isnt happening?.. Answer: Conservatives

Because conservatives like to live in a cocoon of denial and fantasy.

Conservatives have been proven wrong time and again. Most of the time its harmless though. But when it comes to global warming, the stakes are much higher for everyone.

311

I use to think the earth was warming up ,because all the oil keeping the core cool was dissapearing.:D

SuperSean11

_Brian_ wrote: »

I use to think the earth was warming up ,because all the oil keeping the core cool was dissapearing.:D

Makes a bit of sence from a childs perspective

fits

I was at a lecture by Dr Martin Manning of the IPCC last night which was attended by at least 300 people. In the question time which lasted an hour, there was not one voice of dissent. The audience included many politicians and scientists.

These conspiracy theories make me laugh, the effort required to get 5000 scientists and all the governments worldwide to sign up to one document is incredible.

Its too late to question whether or not climate change is occurring, its a damage limitation exercise now.

cavedave

Its too late to question whether or not climate change is occurring, its a damage limitation exercise now.

There should always be the ability to question a scientific theory. Even while questioning a theory you can act on its predictions. Climate change is occurring and always has been. We are currently engaged in a damage limitation exercise on human caused climate change.

fits

cavedave wrote: »

There should always be the ability to question a scientific theory..

Climate Change is not a scientific theory... it is occurring as you later state. The only question is the extent to which it will occur.

The globe has warmed by 0.6C in the last decade, the EU are aiming to limit the warming to 2C. Martin Manning said last night that meeting this target is almost impossible now.

The question is will we have 3 C warming or 6 C warming... Either will have huge effects on the worlds climate. Its quite scary.

cavedave

Climate Change is not a scientific theory.

Human caused climate change is a scientific theory.*

*Climate change has always happened for the entire history of the earth. Climate change is currently occurring. Some people believe that this current change is not caused by human actions but by changes in the suns output, volcanos, pirates(http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/). Others who include the majority of scientists in the field believe this climate change is caused by the actions of humans.

fits

cavedave wrote: »

Human caused climate change is a scientific theory.*

One of greater than 90% certainty with no scientific dissent of note

*Climate change has always happened for the entire history of the earth. .

Oh Come on... Does this really need to be spelled out all the time? People think they are so smart when they come out with this little number.

Volcanos generally have a cooling effect, solar activity has been shown not to be the cause.

As for pirates... who knows?

Why are so many people (generally ill informed people) so desperate to clutch at straws so that they may doubt change? Thats what I want to know.

cavedave

Oh Come on... Does this really need to be spelled out all the time?

Yes it does unless you are honest you leave holes in your argument. Unless you say that climate change has always occurred but this case is different people will say "well we cannot have caused this because we did not cause the ice age" or some such

fits
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavedave View Post
Human caused climate change is a scientific theory.*
One of greater than 90% certainty with no scientific dissent of note

But it is a scientific theory and holds up to the rigors of such. That is what gives it its power. If we just say "global warming is happening that is the end of the conversation" we look like religious zealots. Saying "man caused climate change is occurring here is the evidence and we are open to better hypothesis" is far more likely to get to the truth then any dogma.

fits

cavedave wrote: »

Yes it does unless you are honest you leave holes in your argument.

Sorry it is such a given for me, I just do not see the need to state the obvious again and again and again.

If we just say "global warming is happening that is the end of the conversation" we look like religious zealots.

The data, the reports, the comments and criticisms are there for all to see. There were 30,000 review comments made on AR4 (not sure if thats just Working Group 1, or the whole thing). The comments and their refutations are available to view on www.ipcc.ch If anyone wants to investigate the science it is there to see.... Noone is saying 'that is the end of the conversation'.

Forgive me if I get tired of the same arguments cropping up over and over again, from people who want the science to suit themselves and their lifestyles, rather than investigate the veracity of the argument.

casey212

fits wrote: »

I was at a lecture by Dr Martin Manning of the IPCC last night which was attended by at least 300 people. In the question time which lasted an hour, there was not one voice of dissent. The audience included many politicians and scientists.

These conspiracy theories make me laugh, the effort required to get 5000 scientists and all the governments worldwide to sign up to one document is incredible.

Its too late to question whether or not climate change is occurring, its a damage limitation exercise now.

Attended by 300 zombies you should have said. Not one voice of dissent, sounds like a proper debate alright.

fits

casey212 wrote: »

Attended by 300 zombies you should have said. Not one voice of dissent, sounds like a proper debate alright.

Yeah obviously :rolleyes:

Were you at it?

Maybe if you are so interested in the subject you should be attending these lectures too. They're free, anyone can go, you can ask questions and disagree with the speaker if you like. Its no closed club, anyone can go.

casey212

fits wrote: »

Yeah obviously :rolleyes:

Were you at it?

Maybe if you are so interested in the subject you should be attending these lectures too. They're free, anyone can go, you can ask questions and disagree with the speaker if you like. Its no closed club, anyone can go.

Fair enough

What is the time and location of the next event?

fits

Its a pdf link

http://www.epa.ie/downloads/pubs/other/events/olg/climate%20change%20lecture%20brochure%20231120071.pdf

casey212

fits wrote: »

Its a pdf link

http://www.epa.ie/downloads/pubs/other/events/olg/climate%20change%20lecture%20brochure%20231120071.pdf

Appreciate that.

fits

Just do yourself a favour and go with an open mind ok?

I know you believe that everyone posting on this subject is indoctrinated etc... but really I and I'm sure others on this thread would be very interested and investigate with an open mind if we did come across sound science which contradicted the available research. That sound science is just not there...

I was a sceptic for a long time. Then when I began to accept the anthropogenic influence, I thought there was no point in acting on the knowledge as we're f**ked anyway. Its only recently that I've been convinced that we need to act immediately in order to avoid catastrophic climate change. I came to this opinion over the course of several years of reading relevant literature and meeting and listening to scientists in the area.

Scientific process is really quite transparent... the IPCC is especially so. If anything, their reports are quite understated because of the need to get governments with clear fossil fuel based agendas such as the US and Saudi Arabia to sign up to it.

I would encourage you to read as much of AR4 as you can (again with the open mind you expect of everyone else). Its all available on www.ipcc.ch

casey212

fits wrote: »

Just do yourself a favour and go with an open mind ok?

I know you believe that everyone posting on this subject is indoctrinated etc... but really I and I'm sure others on this thread would be very interested and investigate with an open mind if we did come across sound science which contradicted the available research. That sound science is just not there...

I was a sceptic for a long time. Then when I began to accept the anthropogenic influence, I thought there was no point in acting on the knowledge as we're f**ked anyway. Its only recently that I've been convinced that we need to act immediately in order to avoid catastrophic climate change. I came to this opinion over the course of several years of reading relevant literature and meeting and listening to scientists in the area.

Scientific process is really quite transparent... the IPCC is especially so. If anything, their reports are quite understated because of the need to get governments with clear fossil fuel based agendas such as the US and Saudi Arabia to sign up to it.

I would encourage you to read as much of AR4 as you can (again with the open mind you expect of everyone else). Its all available on www.ipcc.ch

I'll not be going to view the dog and pony show, rather to present some views of my own. I might even get a white coat and clipboard for the occasion.

fits

casey212 wrote: »

I might even get a white coat and clipboard for the occasion.

You'll be on your own so... When you're running models on a computer (which is what most climate change scientists do) you dont really need to wear a white coat.

Present your own ideas by all means, but be prepared to have to back them up, just like you'd expect the speaker to. And do listen to what they have to say.

casey212

fits wrote: »

You'll be on your own so... When you're running models on a computer (which is what most climate change scientists do) you dont really need to wear a white coat.

Present your own ideas by all means, but be prepared to have to back them up, just like you'd expect the speaker to. And do listen to what they have to say.

I can only imagine the atmosphere.

Capt'n Midnight

eggplantman wrote: »

there will be solar powered cars soon.

the most we get in Ireland is 1KW/m2
but when it's cloudy it's a lot less

solar power if you include battery backup then you are talking golf carts, the solar racers across Oz are a special case

cavedave

Here is a site on converting your car to solar
http://e-volks.com/

the most we get in Ireland is 1KW/m2
but when it's cloudy it's a lot less

Ireland is not solar friendly. Wind friendly it is.

solar power if you include battery backup then you are talking golf carts

No you are not as the site shows. The range on electric cars is very limited.

casey212

Look at this. Baby Tax

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22896334-2,00.html

As I said before, the environment movement is nothing more than a scam designed to limit personal freedom/quality of life. Waken up before you have less rights than a tree.

ivanthehunter

You are alway going to get the leaches jumping in for what they can grab.. temp rise and climate shift are real and have been here before but we were not( we must take action to protect our way of life) yes a baby tax is madness but a reduction in the working week and hence a reduction in emissions etc is not You should all look at the price of things in terms of labor hours? Would it take you 12.5 years to build a house? NO....So why are we paying this price??? i believe that GW is real and man made in some % of the total.. But life style and work ethic are our number 2 enemy.. if we whereto cut back on work hours/days and spend more time with our family's the youth of to day would not suffer from this but would grow up in a safer more stable world... We as humans must make calls that will safe guard the environment and at the same time give us a better quality of life... \really!!! to make a family pay more(4 baby) hence work more hence use more oil etc would only add to the madness..
THINGS THAT COULD MAKE CHANGE WELCOME
a reduction in house prices followed by a fully functional high speed transport network made of tram train etc. A reduction in working hours(say longer days but with 3 day wk-end)
A removal (by force if required) of all thicks in government whom are not college educated and who have not spent 20 years (WORKING)or more in their respective fields reaching some of the highest levels poss in those disciplines. A removal of the high pay automatically received by the above and a removal of their pensions.. only allow the pay scale to continue as it would have in their regular job but give concessions for over time. This would ensure that we got real people in the gov for the ske of the job and not the money as is the present case.
Turn all traffic lights to flashing amber after 7pm and allow proper free flow..
Have you drawn any conclusions as to who enemy number one is.. the government...
---They and they alone allowed the price of housing to run out of control
---They are adding to c02 by crippling the motorcar and not allowing the free flow of traffic by sound design f**k sake its only a small town!!
---they allow bus lanes that dont allow buses to pull of side to allow other buses pass.
---They allow street lighting design which allow u or i to see direct light from these bulbs say in the Dub mts( they could achieve a 40 % reduction in wattage req if the extra light was cast down by a parabolic hood and achieve safer driving conditions for all with the lack of glare-instead they ram the idea down our necks that all reg light bulb are to be baned- but the new ones our not as good at making light for our eyes)
---they allow us to eat low grade beef from Argentina while the high quality stuff heads off to make its c02 mark
---they lie and conspire to cheat us of our life and liberty
---they allow smoking to continue as to ban it would cause a loss in tax because if you smoke you'll prob die b4 u get to pension age and sure look at all those extra taxes
I THINK A REVOLUTION IS DUE AND CALL ALL TO ARMS BEFORE THE DESTROY THE WORLD FOR ALAS ITS TOO LATE FOR AULD EIRE

seriously the power of one....................................................