suggestion!!!!!!!!

quackquackBOOM

Just a suggestion but could we get a STICKY on the seasons to shoot certain wildlife and what is a protected animal

I recently read in the local paper a man was fined 1500 euro for killing a rook as it was classed as a protected species,
and that there is a season for pegions.

Im not entirely sure on the pegions im only repeating what i heard

I just think that shooters who read boards.ie both young,old,new to the sport or a well seasoned shooter would benifit from the information.


Thanks
QUACK

bitemybanger

quackquackBOOM wrote: »

Just a suggestion but could we get a STICKY on the seasons to shoot certain wildlife and what is a protected animal

I recently read in the local paper a man was fined 1500 euro for killing a rook as it was classed as a protected species,
and that there is a season for pegions.

Im not entirely sure on the pegions im only repeating what i heard

I just think that shooters who read boards.ie both young,old,new to the sport or a well seasoned shooter would benifit from the information.


Thanks
QUACK

Ill second that, Excellent suggestion quack

E. Fudd

yup, +1

johngalway

I'll fourth that suggestion, and say the proposed sticky should replace that blunt, arrogant and downright rude sticky threatening to ban us all.

Have a nice day

Mellor

I'm going to go against the masses here with a -1 vote.
Stickys can start to get cluttered. The sticky sugggested above will be a single post, that will never change and there will be no input from the forum.
The seasons are available online, and in fairness you shouldn't shoot anything for which you are not aware of the season, or where you are 100% sure that there is no season.

I've only ever shot the following:
Pheasant, Snipe, Duck, Crow, Pigeon (yes there is a season, but it is quite wide)
And I am aware of the seasons on each.

A link to the various seasons can go in the hunting thread so it can be refered back to.

rrpc

+1 to Mellor's post.

I think we've far to many stickies as it is. 11 at last count and we're in danger of having no front page at all if it continues. A Forum split would reduce this, but I would also suggest that the two warning stickies should be added to the charter with a **READ THIS** added to the charter header.

I don't know if the PTB (Powers that be) would be in favour of this, but the MCD sticky is over a year old and DeVore's sticky should be incorporated in the charter anyway.

'That' sticky has to stay... no discussion on it as it warrants a temp site ban..

+1 for all the other stuff though.. you all know my thoughts by now on a forum split!

Mellor

It took a bit of tracking down, due the the way Statutory Instruments are named and the jargon used. But here are open seaons for birds:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/si/0280.html


For mammals (Deer and Hare)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1996/en/si/0220.html

and snares might be relevant to some of us here
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/si/0620.html

Sparks

The MCD sticky has to stay for the moment I'm afraid, but the rest are within our baliwick...

How was Finland?

Are you going to split the forum as per the 'shooting forum' thread?

Sparks

Finland was incredible. A week training with Jozef Gonci and Juha Hirvi in -8 degree weather. Breakfast, an hour or so of lectures, two hours shooting, lunch, three more hours shooting, a quick break, an hour's physical training, dinner, sauna, sleep. Fabulous. Feel like I've finally gotten back into the shooting side of things properly now. I must post some stuff on it, it really was excellent. Well worth the 1300 or so euros it ran to in the end.

And I think we will be splitting the forum, it's just a question of how it gets done - do we have subfora or do we create a new forum structure for all the different disciplines or do we do it the way the sports forum works, with an overall shooting forum and several subforums for target shooting, hunting, airsoft/paintball, and so on. Stuff _is_ being done zara, we're not snoozing

Given that I am currently working an essay that glorifies shareholder monitorism, I could probably argue that more threads asking for the split is a good thing - but given that all business theory is total BS, I won't.

My 0.2c - a simple split that seperates 'them der hunters' from 'our glorious and great target shooters' would probably work best.

People will get annoyed and few up if they have to trawl through several forums to get their daily shooting hit.

Sparks

There's also the argument that hunting has shooting as a small subset, since ferreting and dogs and such don't come into target shooting much. Give us a day or so to get all the mods synced up and we'll post the plans then.

sixpointfive

That statute thing says woodpigeon are from 1st of June, am i wrong to say that my foreshore licence says they are 1st November?? or am i very much mistaken?

Mellor

Is it possible you are mixing up wood pigeon and wood cock?
Pigeon is june to jan, and wood cock is nov to jan.

airy-fairy

This is now november 1 to Feb 28 like all other game birds. You need to prove crop destruction to shoot them out of season and show all other alternative methods failed.

It comes from the EU Bird Directive. This also puts magpies and all the rest of the things you think you can shoot on the protected list. The wood pigeon dates are subject to change and have already once, so maybe a sticky on the current open/close seasons would not be a bad idea.

I still meet plenty of guys who are not aware of the "new" pigeon season or that there was an old one...

Mellor

airy-fairy wrote: »

This is now november 1 to Feb 28 like all other game birds. You need to prove crop destruction to shoot them out of season and show all other alternative methods failed.

It comes from the EU Bird Directive. This also puts magpies and all the rest of the things you think you can shoot on the protected list. The wood pigeon dates are subject to change and have already once, so maybe a sticky on the current open/close seasons would not be a bad idea.

I still meet plenty of guys who are not aware of the "new" pigeon season or that there was an old one...

Did this change recently?

The birds directive came in in 1979 , it was updated in the mid 90s. It allowed for a list of c.80 birds to be hunted in the member states. Not all these birds may be hunted in all states. There is a table that taggs 12 for ireland, although others are not on the table. My understanding of the directive is that is allows each member state to control the season for each species, as birds that are plentliful and require population control in one estate may be quite rare in another.


The current widelife order is from 2000, and have been a number of changes over the years and pigeons may have changed, but surely this complies with the birds directive of 1979.
There may be a newer birds directive or widelife order that I am unaware of.

J.R.

Changes to season in 2003

S.I. No. 394/2003 — Wildlife (Wild Birds) (Open Seasons) (Amendment) Order, 2003

Mellor wrote: »

It took a bit of tracking down, due the the way Statutory Instruments are named and the jargon used. But here are open seaons for birds:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/si/0280.html


For mammals (Deer and Hare)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1996/en/si/0220.html

and snares might be relevant to some of us here
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/si/0620.html

stevoman

quackquackBOOM wrote: »

I recently read in the local paper a man was fined 1500 euro for killing a rook as it was classed as a protected species,



QUACK

i always presumed that crows where classified as vermin and could be shot all year round. i know grey crows are but rooks i thought went in the general crow caregory. anyone have any info???

J.R.

Article in this months Irish Shooters Digest on pigeon shooting season ...also reference to it in N.A.R.G.C. column by Des Crofton.

ShowAndGo

I think this needs a sticky…it is definitely something that has me confused.

From a quick look around it looks like you can still shoot magpies but only for certain reasons, crop protection, health and safety etc. Is this true???

What is an EU Directive? Does it need to be incorporated into Irish law before it is valid, if so has this been done?

IRLConor

ShowAndGo wrote: »

What is an EU Directive? Does it need to be incorporated into Irish law before it is valid, if so has this been done?

An EU directive is a thing which requires member states to implement a particular policy within a particular timeline. Usually this requires the member states to pass a law to implement the policy. For example, an EU directive saying "by the end of 2009 the speed limit in urban areas must be less than 5kph" would require an update to our Road Traffic Act. If we didn't update the Road Traffic Act we could be fined by the EU.

A directive on its own has no legal effect*. The law implementing the directive does.




* There are some exceptions to this, see here for details.

You are so wasted on the IT Profession.

quackquackBOOM

Mellor wrote: »

I've only ever shot the following:
Pheasant, Snipe, Duck, Crow, Pigeon (yes there is a season, but it is quite wide)
And I am aware of the seasons on each.

.

there you go pigeon season was different than you thought,
you could have been shooting in the off season.


i do agree on the sticky part mabye if it was locked and only the mods could change it when new eu directives came in as there seems to be a few

but it does seem alot of people are confused on the matter

IRLConor

Deleted User wrote: »

You are so wasted on the IT Profession.

There are few other places where my pedantry goes unnoticed.

pw to da c?

Mellor

quackquackBOOM wrote: »

there you go pigeon season was different than you thought,
you could have been shooting in the off season.


i do agree on the sticky part mabye if it was locked and only the mods could change it when new eu directives came in as there seems to be a few

but it does seem alot of people are confused on the matter

Agreed, I wasn't aware that the 2003 act was the current one, and I can say that depending on when it came in (just as its a 2003 act it may not be in law for a year or two), I may or may not have shot pigeons outside the season.

Locked sticky for mods with links to current act, I still think it would be better to include in another sticky, such as the first post of the hunting thread.

I'm still unsure how the EU directive changed the season, the directive came in the late 70s, the seasons for birds have changed a number of times since then, twice in the last 7 years at least. Its the irish acts that change it, not the EU directive, slight difference that IRLConor pointed out

airy-fairy

The Bird Directive was signed up to in 1979. But it was only as its 25th anniversary approached in 2004 that member states were fully obliged to implement all its conditions in their laws.

This is why the pigeon was made a game bird and then had its season further tightened. No birds can be classed as vermin anymore. Any state which does not make every effort to comply can be sued by the EU. Unless you are Britain...

Most eu directives will supercede national law, derogations may be given but not for ever. Its on of the reasons salmon drift netting was suspended this year.

I agree locked sticky linking to the current open season order would be most useful to users and easiest for the mods to maintain.

quackquackBOOM

airy-fairy wrote: »

This is why the pigeon was made a game bird and then had its season further tightened. No birds can be classed as vermin anymore. Any state which does not make every effort to comply can be sued by the EU. Unless you are Britain...

does this mean that there is a season for magpie,grey crows, and other animals which were classed as vermin

quackquackBOOM

Mellor wrote: »

Locked sticky for mods with links to current act, I still think it would be better to include in another sticky, such as the first post of the hunting thread.

that either is a good idea its just for the hunters like you and i that were un aware of such changes.
there can be court prosicutions for killing of animals out of season if caught especially native birds and worst case might loose your licence and firearm
clearly alot of people are caught out by this unknown to themselves who are only out for a days shooting

meathstevie

Do the people who come up with these rules actually have any idea what's going on out there ? I grew up in Belgium where the vermin classification was quite similar to Ireland until a couple of bright sparks started limiting the season on vermin, banned digging foxes etc etc only achieving a sickening increase in the numbers of magpies, foxes, crows, etc etc.. . Surprise surprise a couple of years later big panic...what's happening to the number of songbirds, ground nesting birds ??? Well shoot a few magpies and dig a few foxes out of season and see what they've been eating.

Mellor

airy-fairy wrote: »

The Bird Directive was signed up to in 1979. But it was only as its 25th anniversary approached in 2004 that member states were fully obliged to implement all its conditions in their laws.

This is why the pigeon was made a game bird and then had its season further tightened. No birds can be classed as vermin anymore. Any state which does not make every effort to comply can be sued by the EU. Unless you are Britain...

Just for reference, ano open season for woodpigeon was introduced in 1986. It was 1st june to 31st Jan. The directive may have been a cause of its introduction. But its seasom was very wide.

As it was become aware in this thread the season changed in the 2003 act to 1st November to 31st Jan. I have since found out that the pigeon was the only season changed in 2003. So its not really correct to say that it changed because of the birds directive, as it was in compliance with the birds directive for over 17 or 18 years. Unsure why it changed.

And the area of crows and magpies is a grey one, as they are not mentioned. Are we to assume that they have no season, or are free to shoot at all times.

airy-fairy

The reason the pigeon season was shortened is that the bird directive does not allow birds to be shot while in their breeding season. As pigeons will raise a number of broods over the spring and summer if conditions allow the only way to be sure they were complying was to give it a season of the same duration as the other game birds. It's not terribly important to the point of the thread but the whole reason the woodpigeon season was tightened in 2003 was that in 2004 eu member states would become liable for not implementing and enforcing all elements of the birds directive.

What is worrying is that with climate change twitchers will soon start reporting later and later clutches of ducklings. You can imagine what will happen to that opening season...

Mellor

Right so, the punishment came in in 2003. It certainly isn't common knowledge that it has been 1st nov for 5 seasons now (a look through the hunting photo sticky shows that), and it certainly isn't inforced.

If the open season for pigeons was stuck to then I doubt many would be shot at all. When november came, people are concentrating on pheasant, duck, snipe, woodcock etc. The rate of increase of pigeon numbers would rise each year.

J.R.

In some area it is being enforced - see this months Irish Shooters Digest where Des Crofton points out that the NARGC will be defending a shooter who was shooting over stubble - gun confiscated by Wildlife rangers as the field was not being attacked ...i.e. stubble ..so no crop to protect.

They are also appealling to other shooters, in a similar scenario, to come forward and if they are NARGC members they will represent them.

J.R.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/si/0394.html

WILD BIRDS OPEN SEASON


Red Grouse
The period beginning on the 1st day of September in each year and ending on the 30th day of September in the same year.
Throughout the State.
_________________________________________
Mallard

Teal

Gadwall

Wigeon

Pintail

Shoveler

Scaup

Tufted Duck

Pochard

Goldeneye

Golden Plover

Snipe

Jack Snipe
The period beginning on the 1st day of September in each year and ending on the 31st day of January in the year immediately following that year.
Throughout the State.
______________________________________________
Red-legged Partridge
The period beginning on the 1st day of November in each year and ending on the 31st day of January in the year immediately
Throughout the State.

Cock Pheasant Woodcock
The period beginning on the 1st day of November in each year and ending on the 31st day of January in the year immediately following that year.
Throughout the State.

Curlew
The period beginning on the 1st day of November in each year and ending on the 30th day of November in the same year.
Throughout the State.

Woodpigeon
The period commencing on the 1st day of November in each year and ending on the 31st day of January immediately following that year.
Throughout the State.

Canada Goose
The period beginning on the 1st day of September in each year and ending on the 15th day of October in the same year.
Throughout the State.

Canada Goose
The period beginning on the 16th day of October in each year and ending on the 31st day of January in the year immediately following that year.
The counties of Cavan (exclusive of the townlands of Eonish Island, Rinn, Deramfield) and Leitrim (exclusive of the River Shannon).

Greylag Goose
The period beginning on the 1st day of September in each year and ending on the 15th day of October in the same year.
Throughout the State.

Greylag Goose
The period beginning on the 16th day of October in each year and ending on the 31st day of January in the year immediately following that year.
Lady's Island, in the county of Wexford Gearagh East & Gearagh West, in the county of Cork.

Ruddy Duck
The period beginning on the 1st day of September in each year and ending on the 31st day of January in the year immediately following that year.
Throughout the State.



GIVEN under the Official Seal of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government this 3rd day of September, 2003

quackquackBOOM

thats good info JR thanks for that

johngalway

Why oh why is this being debated :rolleyes: There'd have to be a debate over the correct way to tie shoelaces here. It's painfully obvious that folks are not aware of the seasons, and as in the NARGC case the conditions under which some quarry can be shot.

Like the Nike add says/used to say - Just Do It.

Mods, take the initiative please.