The High Society - RTE drops ball?

mike65

Looks like the veracity of the two part documentary based on the book by Justine Delaney-Wilson about the use of cocaine in modern Ireland is open to question. The tapes of first person evidence by a government minister it seems don't exist and RTE was working from contemporaneous written notes provided by Delaney-Wilson.

Gill and Macmillan who published the book, stand over the material.

If this is the case should RTE have put thier (our) resources into making the programme?

Mike.

flogen

I think the interesting thing is that RTÉ seemed to say there was a tape and now say there isn't.

Is it that there was never a tape but RTÉ lied? Is it that their statement never confirmed that there was a tape of this minister (it's possible to say so but it's clear they wanted people to believe there was one)? Is it that there is a tape but RTÉ are now saying there isn't to protect themselves or someone else?

I don't think that there's anything wrong with relying on written notes - in fact I'd be amazed if the minister in quesiton, if there is one, allowed themselves to be recorded when they didn't want to be identified. Assuming Justine Delaney-Wilson had proven herself to be honest and trustworthy as a journalist then there's nothing wrong with written notes where necessary, it just depends on whether RTÉ did enough checking to ensure that she was honest and trustworthy, or saw enough completely verifiable information to be willing to take a punt on the validity of written notes elsewhere.

jdivision

She worked in TV production beforehand didn't she, didn't think she was a journalist. Also sunday times reporting today that G&M don't have a tape either.

mike65

Boy the sh-its hitting the fan within RTE, the News At One host Sean O'Rourke is tearing into the editor of factual programmes - Kevin Dawson.

The encounter can be heard here sometime late today/early tomorrow from about 8 mins in.

Mike.

Tha Gopher

Can i see the docu anywhere online?

Knew the book would be made up rubbish before id even read a bit of it.

jdivision

Interesting the Irish Times referred to her as an author today, again indicating she's not a journalist.

Dopey

I watched the first programme on RTE and the dialogue was not convincing. It's possible that she may have got a minister or a solicitor to confess but also a nun. Furthermore, she claimed that the people she interviewed were arrogant about their drug abuse. Would I tell someone like Justine Delaney-Wilson about my drug abuse if I had so much to loose?

I don't think so.

It's just not credible.

RTE have messed up big time.

mike65

from rte.ie

The journalist at the centre of a controversy over her report that a Government minister admitted using cocaine has said she stands over the story.

The claim was made in a book and a two-part television series, called High Society, broadcasted by RTÉ.

Over the weekend, it emerged the interview did not exist on a tape recording.

This evening, Justine Delaney Wilson said she had made a digital recording of her interview with the Government minister with the person's consent, but strictly on the basis that it was for her use only.

She said she had not kept the recording.

Ms Delaney Wilson said she also made contemporaneous notes, which confirmed the content of the interview.

Earlier, the Minister of State in charge of drugs, Pat Carey, accused RTÉ of glamorising and trivialising the issue of cocaine.

This evening, RTÉ said it has commissioned an internal report on the preparation of the documentary and will await it before deciding on any further action.

Her cred is falling through the floor. Now she can be accused of fabriacting the notes and she can't prove she did'nt as the subject of said notes is unlikely to come forward to confirm the veracity of same.

Mike.

odyssey06

Isn't this a deja vu to Andrew Gilligan and his notes claim? Can a government 'collectively' sue for libel? I presume that's why the person hasn't been named... because it doesn't look as though she has any evidence to back things up.

flogen

odyssey06 wrote: »

Isn't this a deja vu to Andrew Gilligan and his notes claim? Can a government 'collectively' sue for libel? I presume that's why the person hasn't been named... because it doesn't look as though she has any evidence to back things up.

Well I'd imagine (if we're to assume the claim is true) the Minister wasn't named because they spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The lack of a name isn't indicative of the claim's factual basis or otherwise (and frankly Pat Carey is putting up a straw man by telling RTÉ, G&M and Delaney Wilson to put up or shut up.)

DMC

mike65 wrote:

Her cred is falling through the floor.

That was my interpretation, aye.

odyssey06 wrote:

Can a government 'collectively' sue for libel? I presume that's why the person hasn't been named... because it doesn't look as though she has any evidence to back things up.

I'm sure a company can sue for libel, but I can't imagine the cabinet doing so. If it did go to court, it would make things interesting if the cabinet were called up as witnesses!

The key difference here is that Gilligan's source was Dr. Kelly, a government scientist, who was sought out and hung out to dry by Tony B. Liar to defend his own ends. Delaney-Wilson's "source" was from the horse's mouth, therefore harder to out.

If there was a source.

If there was a story for a book deal or documentary in the first place.

odyssey06

DMC wrote: »

The key difference here is that Gilligan's source was Dr. Kelly, a government scientist, who was sought out and hung out to dry by Tony B. Liar to defend his own ends. Delaney-Wilson's "source" was from the horse's mouth, therefore harder to out.
If there was a source.
If there was a story for a book deal or documentary in the first place.

Well, what I meant was that Gilligan claimed his source said X when it was clear from the inquiry that Kelly hadn't actually said it and Gilligan was 'inferring it'... It was Gilligan's hyping up of Kelly's concerns that led to the public interest in the case and to the tragic turn of events.

But I don't think anyone wants to re-run the Hutton inquiry! My more general point is that we're seeing a lot of incidents lately involving stories that can only be described as "sourced dodgily"... and that the editorial checkup of the sources has been lacking. Somewhere along the line the process\mechanism for telling stories based on anonymous sources is being abused. I don't know what the solution is, I'm not a journalist but my gut instinct is that something is going wrong.

DMC

On that, oh aye, good point... agree with you there.

strassenwolf

Well, I suppose if the whole thing came to a head, she could name the Minister in question.

He or she would then rigorously deny being a drug user.

And then all it needs is a simple little drug test.

mike65

Well she could, I'd look forward to that moment.

Mike.

brianthebard

Agree with Dopey that the dialogue was crap. I know it was supposed to be normal people telling stories or whatever, but it sounded more like someone trying to make normal people sound normal. Are we likely to see some BBC type resignations if(or increasingly likely when) RTE and delaney wilson admit that there is no coke head minister?

jdivision

I wouldn't rule it out entirely I have to say because at least one TD is believed to be a fan but there's only one possible minister I can think of and yeah I'd say he'd be stupid enough to say it.

Dopey

jdivision wrote: »

I wouldn't rule it out entirely I have to say because at least one TD is believed to be a fan but there's only one possible minister I can think of and yeah I'd say he'd be stupid enough to say it.

Like who?

flogen

Dopey wrote: »

Like who?

I consider that to be as bad as someone requesting warez, links to illegal torrents or hardcore porn.

Do not ask this question (and anyone who does, or who decides to give their answer, will be banned permanently)

mike65

RTE statement report

The RTÉ Authority has acknowledged shortcomings in the development of the High Society programme on cocaine use.

The programme was broadcast on RTÉ last month and was based on a book of the same name by Justine Delaney Wilson.

Among the claims made were that a politician, an airline pilot and several medical professionals had admitted to taking cocaine.

Following an internal report, RTÉ Authority Chairperson Mary Finan said RTÉ did not sufficiently exercise its editorial controls when it came to the programme, however she said the shortcomings were not endemic in RTÉ.

Ms Finan said a number of steps would be taken to ensure this would not happen again.

This includes suspending production of factual programmes that are dependent on anonymous contributors and re enactments. New guidelines will also be introduced for any programme that relies heavily on an external publication as its primary source.

She also said she was not aware of the identity of the politician mentioned on the programme, however she said the publishers of the High Society book say they do know the identity of the individual, and that RTE accepts this.

Mike.

Dopey

RTE shouldnt have bothered. It doesn't go far enough. They make a statement that they made a little mistake and it won't happen again.

They don't investigate whether the content was truthful. RTE accepts the word of the publishers even though the author of the book lied about a tape recording of the conversation with the minister.

Hobart

Dopey wrote: »

RTE shouldnt have bothered. It doesn't go far enough. They make a statement that they made a little mistake and it won't happen again.

They don't investigate whether the content was truthful. RTE accepts the word of the publishers even though the author of the book lied about a tape recording of the conversation with the minister.

Did she not say she had a recording, but has since destroyed it?

DMC

Dopey wrote: »

RTE shouldnt have bothered. It doesn't go far enough. They make a statement that they made a little mistake and it won't happen again.

They don't investigate whether the content was truthful. RTE accepts the word of the publishers even though the author of the book lied about a tape recording of the conversation with the minister.

Which, in the context of the tribunals, is ultra-small fry compared with whats going on there. The politicians will have their say with Cathal Goan today in the Oireachtas Communications Committee, and will make more of a song and dance against one RTÉ documentary than dealing effectively with Bertie and co.

Media navel gazing again. Coke is sexy this month.

mike65

Quite so, RTE gave some political hacks a chance to "have a go" that they should not have got.

Mike.

flogen

Hobart wrote: »

Did she not say she had a recording, but has since destroyed it?

She said she had a recording. RTÉ were asked and they gave a vague answer which implied that she had the recording and they'd heard it. When pressed they said there was no recording of the minister/politician but there were contemporaneous notes taken. RTÉ then said as they understood it there was never a tape and they were never aware of a tape. When asked about her claim that she had a recording, they said it was news to them (Even though it was broadcast on RTÉ itself). She then said she had had a digital recording which was for her personal use and it had since been destroyed.

Hobart

I heard her telling Mary Wilson that she had a recording. I honestly can't remember it she specified if it was a digital, analogue or written recording. I also heard that a recording, which had been kept in a safe, had been destroyed, on the advice of solicitors, but that this so called "Journalist" was unavailable for comment as she was holidaying half way across the world.

The is lazy Journalism at it's highest from both RTE and Justine Delaney-Wilson. While I accept that contemporaneous notes are a good source of reference and back-up for journalists, they hardly constitute evidence, when allegations like this are bandied about. Whatever about the merits of writing a book about this, the consumer does have a choice in what he/she buys, when our national broadcaster uses one of the best formats of factual programming to broadcast this unsupportable dramatisation, I have an issue.

flogen

Hobart wrote: »

I heard her telling Mary Wilson that she had a recording. I honestly can't remember it she specified if it was a digital, analogue or written recording. I also heard that a recording, which had been kept in a safe, had been destroyed, on the advice of solicitors, but that this so called "Journalist" was unavailable for comment as she was holidaying half way across the world.

I don't think she specified what type of recording it was originally - it was only when she said it was destroyed that she used the term 'digital recording'

The is lazy Journalism at it's highest from both RTE and Justine Delaney-Wilson. While I accept that contemporaneous notes are a good source of reference and back-up for journalists, they hardly constitute evidence, when allegations like this are bandied about.

Frankly I would have believed the claim more if they'd said the interview with a minister was recorded in notes rather than on tape. Simple reason being that I find it hard to imagine a Government minister talking about taking cocaine to anyone who was recording it, simply because they could be identified if the tape got out accidentally or otherwise. It would make much more sense that they'd demand the interview was not put on tape and the journalist only wrote notes out.

Hobart

flogen wrote: »

Frankly I would have believed the claim more if they'd said the interview with a minister was recorded in notes rather than on tape. Simple reason being that I find it hard to imagine a Government minister talking about taking cocaine to anyone who was recording it, simply because they could be identified if the tape got out accidentally or otherwise. It would make much more sense that they'd demand the interview was not put on tape and the journalist only wrote notes out.

Personally, I don't believe her at all notes, recordings, whatever. I simply cannot believe that any minister would be dumb enough to admit to anything like this, especially to an "unknown" like this one. I also don't put any weight on the notes versus tape hypothesis, as there is as much chance of her telling the name as there is of a recording machine going missing, she did clam (or at least her legal advisers claimed) that it was locked in a safe. I actually think the whole "does this person exist" debacle is secondary to what the the core issue is here, mainly that the national broadcaster allowed this unsubstantiated tripe to be aired as a "documentary", when it is anything but.

I listened to Mary Finan say yesterday that they still stand over this program. WTF? How can they? How can they also put this out under the guise of RTE Factual, when they are in no position to say whether it is or is not factual?

I also see the spin they are trying to put on it now, airing on the side of it being a "national concern" that cocaine is endemic in our society, and maybe it is....but why not go out and work for your bucks instead of relying of some unsubstantiated rubbish from some author/journalist that nobody ever heard off until this whole sorry episode took place?

brianthebard

Hobart wrote: »

Personally, I don't believe her at all notes, recordings, whatever. I simply cannot believe that any minister would be dumb enough to admit to anything like this, especially to an "unknown" like this one. I also don't put any weight on the notes versus tape hypothesis, as there is as much chance of her telling the name as there is of a recording machine going missing, she did clam (or at least her legal advisers claimed) that it was locked in a safe. I actually think the whole "does this person exist" debacle is secondary to what the the core issue is here, mainly that the national broadcaster allowed this unsubstantiated tripe to be aired as a "documentary", when it is anything but.

That's definitely the main issue for me, I don't want to make this a license fee rant but the least rte could do is check the authenticity of their sources before putting out such controversial programmes. I pondered earlier whether anyone would be sacked over this and I honestly think that someone in rte has to be disciplined in some way and made an example of if we aren't going to see the same thing happening in six months time.

Slice

This issue smacks of sour grapes on the part of the media to me. The strength of negative media reaction to the book speaks for itself. What's surprising, and testimony to the generally poor level of journalism we put up with in this country, is the fact that no one has highlighted the issue before. Clearly the book addresses an issue that is very much relevant - you only need to look at the news headlines about Katy French's death and the Waterford deaths to see for yourself. If a more established member of the media chose to destroy evidence to protect their sources they'd be hailed as heroes. Look no further than Geraldine Kennedy's court case with the Mahon Tribunal to see an example of the double standards being applied here.

In my experience most people who do cocaine have been less than discreet about it, coupled with the fact that traces of the stuff have previously been found in the toilets of Leinster House and it becomes pretty clear who is right about this irrespective of whatever journalistic standards were applied.

jdivision

Slice wrote: »

This issue smacks of sour grapes on the part of the media to me. The strength of negative media reaction to the book speaks for itself. What's surprising, and testimony to the generally poor level of journalism we put up with in this country, is the fact that no one has highlighted the issue before. Clearly the book addresses an issue that is very much relevant - you only need to look at the news headlines about Katy French's death and the Waterford deaths to see for yourself. If a more established member of the media chose to destroy evidence to protect their sources they'd be hailed as heroes. Look no further than Geraldine Kennedy's court case with the Mahon Tribunal to see an example of the double standards being applied here.

In my experience most people who do cocaine have been less than discreet about it, coupled with the fact that traces of the stuff have previously been found in the toilets of Leinster House and it becomes pretty clear who is right about this irrespective of whatever journalistic standards were applied.

I disagree. she lied to both her publisher and RTE about the existence of the interview so her credibility is shot. I don't believe her but I do believe there's a possibility a minister used cocaine.