Is Howth overserved?

nyarlothothep

Wondering about this, because there are always a million trains to howth but not as many to Malahide. I know its one extra station but still. There seem to be more howth trains than trains to any other destination. Why is this?

mikemac

Maybe they find it hard to fit more trains into Malahide due to conflicts with trains going to and from Belfast and Drogheda.
As Howth has it's own line it's far simpler to do

MrVostro

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Wondering about this, because there are always a million trains to howth but not as many to Malahide. I know its one extra station but still. There seem to be more howth trains than trains to any other destination. Why is this?

Yep. Should be much more Malahide and Portmarnock trains. Ever try to get the Dart in the Bray direction at about 5pm from Pearse or Tara or Connolly and you'll always get a seat on it and wont be waiting too long. Its just as easy getting the Howth train too.
But Get it North to Portmarnock or Malahide at the same time and its like Mortal combat to get on the train, never mind a seat.

constellation

MrVostro wrote: »

But Get it North to Portmarnock or Malahide at the same time and its like Mortal combat to get on the train, never mind a seat.

I like to think of it as a rugby style scrum between people getting on and those getting off.

Back on OT. From the little that I know, I think micmclo is correct. Conflicts with the Drogheda and Belfast trains.

Tipsy Mac

MrVostro wrote: »

Yep. Should be much more Malahide and Portmarnock trains. Ever try to get the Dart in the Bray direction at about 5pm from Pearse or Tara or Connolly and you'll always get a seat on it and wont be waiting too long. Its just as easy getting the Howth train too.
But Get it North to Portmarnock or Malahide at the same time and its like Mortal combat to get on the train, never mind a seat.

There's far more people living along Bayside, Sutton and Howth stations than Portmarnock/Malahide so this is likely why there's more going in this area. There's not the capacity on the line to allow any more trains in either area, it's currently running at max during rush hour.

fantasma

The dart is a joke thats why!! Its time we got sophisticated and got an S-Bahn or something like that. The Dart has become a Fart in the the transport world and all Europe is laughing at us:D Wake up:cool:

Jonny Arson

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Wondering about this, because there are always a million trains to howth but not as many to Malahide. I know its one extra station but still. There seem to be more howth trains than trains to any other destination. Why is this?

Howth is serviced by 50 DARTs per weekday
Malahide is serviced by 49 DART/Commuter trains per weekday

the Howth line has actually lost vital services directly to the Malahide line in recent years while there has been a significant increase in passengers using the Howth line, you're lucky if you have a seat at Bayside in the morning rush hour if you know what i mean.

unquestionably both lines are underserved but unfortunately there just isn't the capacity to significantly increase DART services on both lines at this moment in time unless someone finally has some vision by four-tracking Connolly to Howth Junction. it has been clear that IE's priority has been leaning to increasing services on the Malahide line at the expense of the Howth line, i expect this shift to increase when the new Baldoyle station is opened but this still will be limited due to the Belfast and Commuter services.

if anything the Howth line is underserved considering population, 3 stations and the absolutely crap bus services to Howth/Sutton/Baldoyle

Calina

fantasma wrote: »

The dart is a joke thats why!! Its time we got sophisticated and got an S-Bahn or something like that. The Dart has become a Fart in the the transport world and all Europe is laughing at us:D Wake up:cool:

Hmmm. As comments go, this is not constructive. All Europe - if it gives as toss - is probably stunned that with the institutional vandalism and lack of intelligent funding that goes on this country we have any sort of a public transport system at all.

The DART functions more or less as an S-Bahn does. Its primary issue is that it doesn't have adequate capacity and little can be done to sort that out without building a load more dedicated rail lines to take it off the mainline rail routes. This would involve a whole pile of CPOing, enquiries and counter objections by people - in many cases given the routes of the DART - counter objections by rich and influential people leading to years of inaction and getting nowhere.

Next vision please.

strassenwolf

Calina wrote: »

This would involve a whole pile of CPOing, enquiries and counter objections by people - in many cases given the routes of the DART - counter objections by rich and influential people leading to years of inaction and getting nowhere.

All broadly correct, Calina.

But you've also got to take into account that the people who work at the top of organisations like the Department of Transport, Irish Rail and the RPA may also, in the main, live in areas with good public transport (such as areas along the DART or the LUAS Green Line). After all, in the public transport sphere, these people earn the most money.

It is often likely that their children will continue to live in these areas, having grown up there. It is perfectly natural that they would do so.

You can see then, if the public transport chiefs see their children only having to travel for, say, 20-30 minutes, to get to work, that it might dawn on them that their offspring have a competitive advantage over their peers in less well served locations. Peers who must travel, say, 1 hour, or more, to get to work.

I imagine that such reasoning, if it is indeed happening, is happening subconsciously.

I remain to be convinced that it is not happening at all.

MrVostro

Jonny Arson wrote: »

Howth is serviced by 50 DARTs per weekday
Malahide is serviced by 49 DART/Commuter trains per weekday

Not all of these serve Portmanock though.

Wait til the Dart is extended to Balbriggan. You wont be able to get on at Malahide at all.

trellheim

What would be the effect of running a set [ perhaps 2 at peak ] purely as a shuttle between HJ and Howth ? All other DARTs then are purely Malahide-Bray and vv. - i.e. remove all direct Howth services.


Are any loading figures available for the 31/32 busroutes

I'm sure we did a look at this somewhere.

ThatBloke

You could probably fill a fleet of double-deckers with the amount of people going beyond Howth Junction to Bayside, Sutton and Howth. As one poster above pointed out the service has markedly decreased to this area in recent years despite a huge increase in the population.

I used to get the Dart 4 or 5 years ago into town from Sutton at 8 and you'd struggle to get a seat there. By the time it got to Howth Junction there was virtually no room left on the train. It was a regular occurrence to see full platforms of people from Howth Junction onwards being left to stand in the rain.

ixoy

Either branch is terrible in the morning - I've taken both. A few years back I'd be at Sutton at 8 in the morning and wouldn't always be able to get a seat in the morning, despite it being the second stop on the line.
Now I'm at Portmarnock for the 8 service and pretty much never get a seat in the morning - again despite the fact that it's the second stop on the line.
Both trains are getting full by Howth Junction so I'm not sure how the hell they accept to accomodate people with the new Baldoyle station. Probably stick to their old policy of cramming more people ever magically into the train (despite my seeing more and more people left behind at later stations).

Oh and it's worth noting as MrVostro does, that Portmarnock isn't served by all the diesel trains and so suffers a reduced service. This is barely adequate for now, but will be become a serious issue with plans to build 1000 houses (yep, a thousand) in the immediate vicinity of the train station over the next couple of years.

ThatBloke

There are 15,000 houses and apartments going in along the stretch of land between Balgriffin and the Baldoyle/Portmarnock coast road over the next few years (many of them already there).

It's an infrastructural disaster waiting to happen.