L Cert student looking for advice on DIT computing course

campuslife

Hi,

A secondary school student, barcoe4, has posted this message on the DIT youtube video. I have directed the person to this forum, since you guys seem to give fairly blunt, unbiased views on the courses . . . :eek: . . . emmm . . . maybe I should have directed him somewhere else. Oh well.

The message is: "If any1 is reading this and has done/is doing the 4 years BOS computing course in DIT cud u please contact me about it, i have to decide for the old CAO and this course seems pretty gud as i am really interested in computers and the way they work."

Naikon

I can give him some information on DT211/1 if he wants it.
He would want to have an interest in programming/Algorithms, Networking, OS theory, among other subjects.
Some people have already left my year, simply because they simply have no "interest" in computing other than Bebo, facebook etc:rolleyes:
Makes me wonder why people put courses they have no interest in down on their CAO form

[sarcasm]It's only 250 points, so the course must be a walk in the park[/sarcasm]

BaRcOe

Thanks for the reply Naikon, and yes that is the course I am interested in DT211!!

I have the Prospectus and the things i am interested are , Building a P.C, Networking, Operating Systems, Internet services & Web Development...etc( I want to be able to Fix pcs, repair em, setup/fix internet problems...etc)

I think the Option Modules are pretty good, such as, Games programming, Music Technology, Graphics and image tech.(I have Macromedia Fireworks and do spend time creating graphics/editing images..etc)

They are the reasons why I am really interested in this course.

There are some things that I am not familiar with such as programming/Algorithms, Programming(what exactly it involves) and Quantitative Methods for computing.
If someone could state what roughly they are about/ if I might not enjoy it because it gets very technical...etc

Yes 250 points and it went down to 210 points on the second round. Pretty low for what seems like a decent Course!!

:D

Naikon

barcoe4 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Naikon, and yes that is the course I am interested in DT211!!

I have the Prospectus and the things i am interested are , Building a P.C, Networking, Operating Systems, Internet services & Web Development...etc( I want to be able to Fix pcs, repair em, setup/fix internet problems...etc)

I think the Option Modules are pretty good, such as, Games programming, Music Technology, Graphics and image tech.(I have Macromedia Fireworks and do spend time creating graphics/editing images..etc)

They are the reasons why I am really interested in this course.

There are some things that I am not familiar with such as programming/Algorithms, Programming(what exactly it involves) and Quantitative Methods for computing.
If someone could state what roughly they are about/ if I might not enjoy it because it gets very technical...etc

Yes 250 points and it went down to 210 points on the second round. Pretty low for what seems like a decent Course!!

:D

I think it will suit you to the ground as you sound pretty similar to me minus the games stuff(I like playing them though:D).
Algorithms and "Quanititive methods" which is a fancy name for Discrete/computing related maths might present a bit of a challenge if you fall behind in turning up to lectures.

Don't neglect Programming, Algorithms and maths as they are very important(and also worth the most credits)
I am finding the course nice enough at the moment, should pick up though soon I reckon.
Don't worry about programming, I knew very little before coming to DIT, but that will change very quickly without overwhelming first years.

You learn the "C" language which is a great foundation to build upon.
Algorithms and programming go hand in hand too.
This is a link to the first year programming which you take a look at:

http://www.comp.dit.ie/dmanley/programming.htm

The most important thing is to keep on to of things, as Algorithms and Quantitative methods are traditional "chalk and talk" lectures, with all the others being very hands on and practical(even programming with labs etc).
Some lecturers put all their notes on the web as well.

Building a PC covers more than just building a PC btw, stuff like computer Architecture, hard drive tech etc.
you build the PC then write up a report on the build and the PC Arch notes.
Computer Technology and Information Tech are taught by Art Sloan, who is a sound and very helpful Lecturer, so no problems here if you cover the stuff he provides.
"Communications and personal development" is a bit nasty though, but it's only till Christmas so no major biggie, just study the stuff for the "exam" at the end , as you can actually fail the entire year by bunking off this class.

Just put some effort in and you will be grand, there are a few people who have left already, but that's mainly due to lack of interest on their part.
Good luck by the way:)

Naikon

barcoe4 wrote: »

Networking, Operating Systems, Internet services & Web Development
:D

Networking is a big part of this course, as it runs over 3 years as core subjects.
Operating systems and web dev isn't covered till second year, but unlike DT228 the OS module runs for the 2 semesters in second year.
They are both great courses, you just have to choose wisely.

BaRcOe

Yeh I do play online games such as America's Army, America's Army and America's Army. lol its free what can i say:D
And I know I will always use computers for the rest of my life so why Not make a Career out of somethin you enjoy using.
And also Everything is computers these days so I'm sure, by the sounds of it, after this course I would be pretty good with computers.
To extend my knowledge of computers I could even do a course or 2 after the 4 years. I'm talking about learning how to keep the Pc safe from Spyware, Adware, Viruses, How to get rid of the F***ers and how to keep my pc running smoothly..etc. I do know roughly a few programs/software to keep my pc protected but I Would love to learn the ins and outs Of the Pc!

Me missing lectures, yeh right, i havent missed 1 day this year, and only 2 days in 5th year! So that, I need'nt worry about

Replies/Quotes, Much appreciated!!

experiMental

It would be very helpful to you to go to DIT and get info about the course and opportunities from lecturers or heads or academic staff involved in the course. Also don't be afraid to ask engineering academic staff in Bolton Street, as computer science and engineering are closely tied together.

Creamy Goodness

open day is coming up on the first of december btw

strychnine

Im in 4th year of the 228 course so i can only give u the ins and outs of that. From what ive read the 211 course seems to be more practical and hands on, which sounds like what your interested in. 228 would be more theoretical overall with more programming and software engineering and very little study of hardware. In fact after second year of 228 hardware is never mentioned so if your interested in hardware or building computers you will not do that in 228.

The are a few similiarities between the two courses though. You will learn the C programming language in first year no matter what, also i think the maths course is the same in both courses and also the course that art sloan teaches is the same.

The one thing i would say about computers is that the drop out rate is huge in both courses, especially in first year. This is mainly down to two things.

Firstly the fact that the points are so low may lead some people to think that the course is easy, or easier than a course thats in the 400s for example. This is not the case. There was a time when the 228 course was in the 400s and it hasn't gotten any easier or harder since. If anything its become harder because thats the nature of IT, better technology generally means a greater level of complication.

The second reason the drop rate is high is because people go into with, like someone said above, because they enjoy using bebo or facebook, or playing games. They think the will get the same pleasure out of studying computers as they do using them. The reality is that it can be mind numingly boring at times, but like anything if you have an interest in it, it wont be boring.


Anyway, i would say if thats what you want to do, go for it!
Best of luck!

BaRcOe

Just looking at 228,

It being similar to 211, makes me wonder which one I would like. And as 211 went down(on 2nd round) to 210 last year, it makes them both roughly the same amount of polints required.
I guess it is my decision and I will be going to the Open day, Hopefully I will sort it out then!

thanks strychnine, for that post!

Creamy Goodness

also remember higher points doesn't mean a course is more difficult, just how popular it is.

both courses are good, and the only thing i can see from the 211 course that i'd like to do would be build your own pc module. but only because i'd breeze the course as i've done it all before

randomcountdown

I'm a first year 228 student, and I can tell you I did tons of research into Computer Science courses before the course so I knew exactly what I was going into, and I love it.
A LOT of people though are very unsure on the course it seems, so make sure you know what you're getting into:

Modules:

Programming: The central part of the course, this is dead important and if you hate logical thinking. You'll also have to code a load of ridiculously tedious programs but if you like experimenting and you can understandand the value in it you'll have a great time and enjoy it, if you enjoy programming, you'll love this course because it'll overshadow every **** part of the course you might have to do.

Communications & Personal Development: This part of the course sucks. You'll hate it, GO TO LECTURES, DO THE WORK, you really don't want to fail this module and you can pass it on the first assignment and half of the second.

Problem Solving: It's EXACTLY like programming, except using a ****ty programming language called Haskell that's bollocks and should die.

Computer Architecture: Hardware, basic electronics.

Introduction to Databases: Kinda lame when you start because you use Access which is totally uninteresting. You get to MYSQL though which is fairly cool.

Business/Management: Lecturer is a legend, makes a boring module interesting.

Creamy Goodness

you shouldn't diss Haskell . you may not see the benefit it now but it's a great intro to functional programming.

what i do like about the first year of dt228 now is you are taught databases from the get go.

we started databases in the first semester of year two and none in semester 2, done 4 lectures on SQL, then in third year (this year) be expected to do complex multiple joins using huge schema's.

i had to do a crash course in PL/SQL that's for sure, but if we were taught databases from the start this wouldn't of happened.

BaRcOe

whats PL/SQL?

Creamy Goodness

barcoe4 wrote: »

whats PL/SQL?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL/SQL

basically it's a structured programming language for interacting with databases.

randomcountdown

Cremo wrote: »

you shouldn't diss Haskell . you may not see the benefit it now but it's a great intro to functional programming.

what i do like about the first year of dt228 now is you are taught databases from the get go.

we started databases in the first semester of year two and none in semester 2, done 4 lectures on SQL, then in third year (this year) be expected to do complex multiple joins using huge schema's.

i had to do a crash course in PL/SQL that's for sure, but if we were taught databases from the start this wouldn't of happened.

I'm sorry, the lecturer is trying hard but you really can't make a good argument for Haskell when it takes longer to do something in Haskell than it does in C.

Also using a "-" and a ">" to form an arrow is ****ing gay, I'm programming, not drawing.

strychnine

Yeah the course is a lot better now than before, with web dev and databases being done from the start instead of in second year. I think if you get through first year now youve a better chance of staying the four years.

When i got into second year the jump from how hard and complicated things got from first year was unbelievable, hence everybody struggled and loads ended up repeating the year or dropping out. Nearly everyone had at least one repeat exam from second year.

Stench Blossoms

randomcountdown wrote: »

Also using a "-" and a ">" to form an arrow is ****ing gay, I'm programming, not drawing.

Shows how much you know about programming - you have to do them in C as well. Just not right no since your probably still learning how to make an array or something.

Wait until you get to 3rd year and have Client Server Programming !

Creamy Goodness

http://www.randomcountdown.justgotowned.com/

and by a girl too.

randomcountdown

orla wrote: »

Shows how much you know about programming - you have to do them in C as well. Just not right no since your probably still learning how to make an array or something.

Wait until you get to 3rd year and have Client Server Programming !

HAY GUYS IM BEING ELITIST ABOUT BEING IN A DIFFERENT YEAR IN COOLEGE AM I COOL YET

That said considering I'm in first year, I'm pretty sure it's obvious I know jack **** about programming, but then again, the TC isn't going to magically appear into 3rd year now and become a pretentious suck**** is he? He'll have to go through first year just like I am, and will probably form similar opinions to me and the rest of the course in first year.

But hey, ignore me, you just keep cliturbating to the thought of being older than someone on an internet message board.

Stench Blossoms

randomcountdown wrote: »

HAY GUYS IM BEING ELITIST ABOUT BEING IN A DIFFERENT YEAR IN COOLEGE AM I COOL YET

That said considering I'm in first year, I'm pretty sure it's obvious I know jack **** about programming, but then again, the TC isn't going to magically appear into 3rd year now and become a pretentious suck**** is he? He'll have to go through first year just like I am, and will probably form similar opinions to me and the rest of the course in first year.

But hey, ignore me, you just keep cliturbating to the thought of being older than someone on an internet message board.

Eh relax...

It was a joke.

As Cremo said you may not see the benefit of Haskell now but you will in the future as with most other subject that you do that people find boring.

randomcountdown

orla wrote: »

Eh relax...

It was a joke.

As Cremo said you may not see the benefit of Haskell now but you will in the future as with most other subject that you do that people find boring.

Yeah I'm sure I will. It's just in first year it's a bit silly and seems pointless. Isn't Haskell barely used by anyone except DIT though? Couldn't they use Python or something more widely used? (I'm not sure now, but Python's pretty similar in usage right? Both high level AFAIK).

Stench Blossoms

randomcountdown wrote: »

Yeah I'm sure I will. It's just in first year it's a bit silly and seems pointless. Isn't Haskell barely used by anyone except DIT though?

Thats what makes us different (or special).

projectmayhem

orla wrote: »

Thats what makes us different (or special).

in fairness it makes a DIT student special in the same way someone with downs is special in comparison to an olypmic athelete.

knowing haskell means piss all unless you plan on working with it in future (and if you're going into any normal industry, you won't be using it). focus on C, C++, Java and web-based stuff like PHP and keep it dynamic and you'll be grand.

with a grounding in C++ and Java (which you'll have by 3rd year, fear not) you're ready for the workplace. everything else is filler. the first thing that happens when you get work is they tell you to forget everything and train you to do things their way...

what i don't get is how they have so much redundant stuff in every course (not just computing courses) but always claim that their syllabus is dictated by industry standards and needs.

strychnine

projectmayhem wrote: »

knowing haskell means piss all unless you plan on working with it in future

That goes without saying, the purpose is to get you thinking in a logical way so you'll be able to solve more complex problems later. Haskell is simple and to the point in the way its coded.
Another point worth making to the 'i'll never use this in the workplace so why are we doing it people' is that the one single thing a degree proves above all else to an employer is that you have to ability to stick with something and see it through to completion, hence the reason half a degree is worth less than no degree. Not my words, this guy.

http://www.comp.dit.ie/dgordon/

Stench Blossoms

projectmayhem wrote: »

knowing haskell means piss all unless you plan on working with it in future (and if you're going into any normal industry, you won't be using it). focus on C, C++, Java and web-based stuff like PHP and keep it dynamic and you'll be grand.

You never did Haskell in DIT did you?

I'll agree that when I did it at the time I thought it was crap but it does make you think in a logical way which has helped me anyway with other subjects.

projectmayhem

orla wrote: »

You never did Haskell in DIT did you?

nope. doesn't affect my point though, does it?

my programming start in education was visual basic, which teaches you to think "like a programmer" but also keeps your interest because you're making useful things (calculators, clocks, mini-games etc.)

Stench Blossoms

projectmayhem wrote: »

nope. doesn't affect my point though, does it?

My point is that you never did that subject or completed the course so how do you that that subject doesn't help with another subject further on in the course?

BTW I'm not trying to be bitchy.

randomcountdown

projectmayhem wrote: »

nope. doesn't affect my point though, does it?

my programming start in education was visual basic, which teaches you to think "like a programmer" but also keeps your interest because you're making useful things (calculators, clocks, mini-games etc.)

This is why I like the programming course, and hate the Haskell course.

projectmayhem

orla wrote: »

My point is that you never did that subject or completed the course so how do you that that subject doesn't help with another subject further on in the course?

BTW I'm not trying to be bitchy.

because i got on fine with programming and never did haskell. the language is dead. it's like teaching latin to chinese students so that they can get a better grasp of english, instead of teaching them very easy-to-understand and fun english (visual basic) that gives them the same basic grounding as latin would, but keeps their interest.

strychnine

projectmayhem wrote: »

nope. doesn't affect my point though, does it?

my programming start in education was visual basic, which teaches you to think "like a programmer" but also keeps your interest because you're making useful things (calculators, clocks, mini-games etc.)

Maybe im wrong but isn't visual basic a drag and drop type application, like frontpage where your hidden from the code. Also, calculators, clocks and mini-games???!!! Wtf!!??? What is this, a creche!!! ?

projectmayhem

strychnine wrote: »

Maybe im wrong but isn't visual basic a drag and drop type application, like frontpage where your hidden from the code. Also, calculators, clocks and mini-games???!!! Wtf!!??? What is this, a creche!!! ?

you create your interface in drag-and-drop fashion, but then you have to write the code in the background so that the interface does something. you can also code the interface if you so wish.

it gives you a good grounding in programming, how to use variables, arrays and all of that stuff. it's also used in various industries to "script" with, like games engines and the like.

NiteOwl2

Dudes, get a grip, Haskell isn't some obscure programming language only taught in DIT, it's used all over the world to help people develop problem-solving and programming skills. There are at least 40 seperate implementations of Haskell which tends to indicate it is reasonably widely used.

Just to re-iterate a point already made, the purpose of a computer science degree is not solely to develop programming skills for relevant for industry (but it is definitely is an important part), other parts include developing a wider range of key transferable skills, it's easy to see why certain subjects are seen as "filler" if you don't take this into account, but if someone just wants to learn skills relevant for industry they shouldn't bother doing a degree, they should just do a series of training courses.

More importantly the wider range of programming languages you encounter in college the more likely you will be able to quickly pick up a new language once you get a job. If the course just taught, for example, OO languages (VB/C++/Java/C#) then those would be the only ones anyone would know how to program, and then what would they do the first time they got a job working with 4GLs or something ? Languages like Java and C++ sure as heck aren't going to be as widely used in ten years time as they are now, something bigger and better is going to come along.

BaRcOe

What are the assignments like/involve??
An example any1??

yoyo

I hated Haskell too lol, though lawlors a legend!

Nick

Creamy Goodness

barcoe4 wrote: »

What are the assignments like/involve??
An example any1??

when i done dt228/1 the programming assignments were as follows.

1. currency convertor using C.
2. lotto machine using C.

last year they got a PIN entry system into a keypadded door.

nothing too strenuous.

they'll be different depending on the lecturer tbh and i don't know who teaches 211 programming so...

Naikon

In DT211, the first assignment so far is a program in C which prints a list of powers and their max and min exponential values using arrays and looping structures.

The base value raised to the max and min exponents must also be produced i.e, if you specify the max exponent as 7, the program must list every value from say 0 to 7.

You also have to "trap" data using relevant measures such as ensuring only certain data types are entered.

Naikon

Cremo wrote: »

i don't know who teaches 211 programming so...

How do you not know Denis Manley:p
Both Art Sloan and Denis should be given some sort of medal in comparison to the small minority of "bad" Lecturers tbh:cool:

Dr Lektroluv

barcoe4 wrote: »

What are the assignments like/involve??
An example any1??

Hard

conzy

Anyone want to share some more info?

Thinking of going to TCD or DIT for Computer Science, tell me why DIT is better!

The Hacker

haven't you watched our youtube videos? Its obvious why DIT is better :-) For the computer science course well I believe, don't know how true this is but employers favour the degree from DIT because a lot more practical, "hands on" work is covered + you have the option of 6 month work placement in 3rd year. Good luck!

drogbaa

Yup, I was talking to a guy who runs his own IT company now. He had gone to UCD himself, and he said he'd always wished he had gone to TCD (for the cobblestones ). BUT he said given a choice of a TCD or a DIT graduate, he'd alway go for the DIT grad .