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Practical defence from assault?

  • 15-11-2007 3:54pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 133 ✭✭


    Hi, I've been reading the krav maga thread with interest as I am thinking of taking classes in it.

    Recently (in the space of a few months) I have been mugged at knifepoint and I have been the victim of two random and unrelated assaults.:(

    I was wondering what the members here would recommend as the most functional/practical discipline for self defence.

    I'm not interested in going around randomly attacking people, but I would definitely like to be able defend myself properly or fight back if anything similar happens in future.

    Thanks.:)


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Learn real life arts such as Boxing, Muay thai, or BJJ or Judo, boxing or thai for the stand up and bjj or judo for if your pulled to the ground..krav maga will leave you thinking your something your not from what i've seen and heard from well known martial arts instructors-do krav if you want to line peoples pockets and be able to tell your mates you do knife defense etc,, the people sticking up for krav have money interests in it, most practical martial arts coaches reccomend what i said.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 492 ✭✭Burnt


    Solid combat sports as Cowzerp mention are a good option in terms of handling yourself.

    In addition depending on your circumstances a big dog or a stout walking stick
    would prove useful just dont let the stick be taken of you...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Burnt wrote: »
    In addition depending on your circumstances a big dog or a stout walking stick
    would prove useful just dont let the stick be taken of you...

    Very good advise..

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Learn real life arts such as Boxing, Muay thai, or BJJ or Judo, boxing or thai for the stand up and bjj or judo for if your pulled to the ground..krav maga will leave you thinking your something your not from what i've seen and heard from well known martial arts instructors-do krav if you want to line peoples pockets and be able to tell your mates you do knife defense etc,, the people sticking up for krav have money interests in it, most practical martial arts coaches reccomend what i said.


    Good post and good point.


    OP Have you just been unlucky or do you walk alone at night in places you shouldnt? Im not asking to criticise, its just that sometimes common sense must prevail when it comes to self defense. In your case i would say boxing might be best. You will learn to hit hard and hit fast. You will also be hit as you spar and this will build your confidence for real life situations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭westhamutd


    Hi helpmeplease

    I think cowzerp is right in that it is good to have a foundation in arts such as boxing which is my back ground, but while I do not mantain the Krav Maga is a perfect system it does cover all ranges from stand up to ground , clinch obsivley it does not focus on one area so for example on the ground A BJJ guy would be stronger and at boxing range a boxer would be strounger but It gives a good all round introduction to self defence , also without wishing to rehash an old argument what works in the ring is very differnet to what works on the streets on a Sat night , also if you can cross train in stuff like the shredder and crazy monkey and take from other systems . aslo Jon and baggio should be of great help to you here as they have a great intrest and knowladge of combatives which is purely street based and designed to be learned quickley, I have only attended 2 lee morrison semenars but he is great and Jon and baggio are training to be instructors , I don't think they have started classes in dublin yet , but when they do they would be well worth a visit . Cowzerp I think you comment about the KM guys have financal intrest is unfair.

    Tks

    Ps please excuse my spelling:)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭pearsquasher


    To the OP......take a good long read of this guy's website...

    http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/streetfighting.html

    It really does hit the mark in a lot of ways.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    westhamutd wrote: »
    Cowzerp I think you comment about the KM guys have financal intrest is unfair.

    The reason why i said that is the people sticking up for krav are all krav instructors or trainee's, your reply above was the best 1 that i have read from you as it goes into some better details, im not having a go at you personally but am just going on what i have seen on youtube etc,, or been told by trainers that i have lots of respect for..

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭westhamutd


    No probs cowzerp if you have any questions for me I will answer them as honest as i can:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭silat liam


    If you're interested, I teach Combat Silat classes, they blend striking and grappling along with good realistic knife and stick defence training. So you get the benefit of developing in all the ranges. Classes in Firhouse, Lucan, Walkinstown, Blanchardstown and City Center. There was a thread a month or so back where an article was written in the Metro Eireann when the journalist wrote his view on what silat training was like and how practical it was for beginners, after he try out a class, that may be give you a feel to what we do. If you like me to send this to you or, if you like to give it a try or want more info you can PM or call me 087 9956569.

    All the best in your search.

    Liam

    Plus its fun:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭silat liam


    To the OP......take a good long read of this guy's website...

    http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/streetfighting.html

    It really does hit the mark in a lot of ways.


    If you like what this guy writes, you be able to meet him in person,as we hosting a two day workshop with Marc Mac Young early in 2008. This will be his first time in Ireland and should prove a great weekend. His website, books and videos hold a wealth of information

    Liam


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Burnt wrote: »
    In addition depending on your circumstances a big dog or a stout walking stick
    would prove useful just dont let the stick be taken of you...


    Yup, nothing like a big fvcking Irish wolfhound and a shillelagh to fight off the hoards!.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Recently (in the space of a few months) I have been mugged at knifepoint and I have been the victim of two random and unrelated assaults.:(

    I think you need to look at yourself and ask why YOU where attacked 3 times in recent months. Some people just seem to invite these situations around themselves, either by looking an easy target or by simply allowing themselves to be drawn into arguments. I'm not trying to be rude or anything by saying this, but by changing the way people see you can avoid a lot (admittedly not all) of these situations.

    With some people, it can just be a case of taking up something like boxing/sub wrestling and things like that, which will change the way you carry yourself (just by virtue of doing them) and so people will avoid confrontational situations with you.

    Of course you could be a six-four rugby player who has just been unlucky...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭Baggio...


    Sorry to hear about your mugging.

    You should give Combatives a go. It's a great striking art, but it primarily focuses on Self-protection (no sport or tournaments). It also guides you through the many psychological factors of real violence - awareness, fear control, etc. It's also quick pick up....

    Give Jon Mackey a PM - he's currently running something in UCD (is that right Jon)?

    Check out: http://www.urbancombatives-ireland.com/

    But if you decide to go the Combat Sports route - I'd highly recommend Muai Thai.
    check out Paddy Clint - www.chupasart.com

    Good luck,

    R.

    PS - wherever you train in the end, make sure the instructor has had "live experience", and is just not teaching from theory.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭kravist


    Hi, I've been reading the krav maga thread with interest as I am thinking of taking classes in it.

    Recently (in the space of a few months) I have been mugged at knifepoint and I have been the victim of two random and unrelated assaults.:(

    I was wondering what the members here would recommend as the most functional/practical discipline for self defence.

    I'm not interested in going around randomly attacking people, but I would definitely like to be able defend myself properly or fight back if anything similar happens in future.

    Thanks.:)

    Krav Maga Seminar.
    November 25th, Prefab 5, Mary I, Limerick, 10am-3pm
    PM me your details and you can come for free!
    If you come, and consider it to be a complete waste of time....post all about it here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 63 ✭✭Leo?


    Whereabouts are you located helpmeplease?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    My own opinion Helpmeplease would be to go with the advise of westhamutd the balence of options suggeted makes sense to me, that is from someone who works with the type of people who are more than likely responsible for the recent traumas you have encountered. Whatever you choose best of luck with it mate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭Baggio...


    kravist wrote: »
    PM me your details and you can come for free!
    If you come, and consider it to be a complete waste of time....post all about it here.

    Can't say fairer than that.:) You should check it out...

    Good luck,

    R.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    kravist wrote: »
    If you come, and consider it to be a complete waste of time....post all about it here.


    Your a gluten for punishment ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 775 ✭✭✭Boru.


    There are many good styles on this board, represented by many talented people. Each has his own view as to which is the best style for him/her and which techniques work best for them.

    Unfortunately that means and counts for nothing.

    They're not you. My advice would be to take advantage of each of the generous invitations made on this thread. Spend a day or two with each of the people who have posted and train with them. If you like what they do and think you can realistically apply it then do it. But make sure you are making an informed choice having seen a variety of styles systems and instructors.

    Make sure you get on with that instructor on a personal level as well. You'll spending a good chunk of time with them in heightened situations. If you the guy is great at what he does but rubs you up the wrong way, find someone you do like that teaches the same stuff. You'll learn better and faster.

    With that said what Mark Hammil wrote is VERY very true. If you've been attacked so often in the last few months then you invited it. Now I don't mean that to cause offense but a criminals look for Easy and Hard Targets. A criminal does not want to attack or mug someone they think may put up a fight. They assess your body language, observational skills, movement everything and in a spilt second can determine if you would be a good bet for gettign what they want.

    Look at you posture. Do you stand tall and proud, looking straight a head nad walking with a confident assertive manner, or stoop and shy away, timid and contained?

    Look where you are going. Do you walk around with purpose, sticking to well light public areas, do you makes sure you are walking in the middle of the path, ensuring that their are no hidden corners or recesses, or are you walking down deserted poor light alleyways in undesirable parts of town?

    Look at what you are doing when walking form A to B? Are your hand free? Head focused looking around and observant of everybody and where you are. Are you keeping an eye out for security staff in nearby shops, gardai on patrol and so forth? Or are you busy on you phone or distracted listening to a walk man.

    The fundamental problem of self defense is that for all the super effective techniques in the world, and the years you can spend learning them is - if you were attacked in the first place then you screwed up. If a system of self defense does NOT teach you, specifically, body and situational awareness and how to conduct yourself in public, boundaries of personal comfort and so on, then in my opinion it's flawed and incomplete.

    Before I teach ANYONE a kick, block, punch anything I teach them how about
    Threat Zones, The Criminal Assault Cycle, the 7 Meter Rule, Conflict Preparation, Conflict Indicators and so forth. Learn to be a hard target and with a little luck you'll never need self defense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭cmyk


    silat liam wrote: »
    If you like what this guy writes, you be able to meet him in person,as we hosting a two day workshop with Marc Mac Young early in 2008. This will be his first time in Ireland and should prove a great weekend. His website, books and videos hold a wealth of information

    Liam

    I'd definately be up for this, so ill be watching for updates on it Liam


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭kravist


    Mairt wrote: »
    Your a gluten for punishment ;)

    Possibly..but dont worry about me..i can take it.
    It's been essentially one against several here on boards re: Krav..and i aint backed down yet!!
    BY the way..you're welcome too...but i'd have to charge you!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭silat liam


    cmyk wrote: »
    I'd definately be up for this, so ill be watching for updates on it Liam

    Hi Cmyk

    No problem, you're more than welcome, as soon as the dates confirm I let you know. Marc just sorting out some dates on his diary so will know exact date in next couple of weeks.

    Liam


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Hi, I've been reading the krav maga thread with interest as I am thinking of taking classes in it.

    Recently (in the space of a few months) I have been mugged at knifepoint and I have been the victim of two random and unrelated assaults.:(

    I was wondering what the members here would recommend as the most functional/practical discipline for self defence.

    I'm not interested in going around randomly attacking people, but I would definitely like to be able defend myself properly or fight back if anything similar happens in future.

    Thanks.:)


    Ok, I was thinking about this one again and thought to myself that alot of the discussion here regarding Krav Mega got away from the whole point of K.M.

    Although K.M. does have a reputation as a money making racket, which I won't get into again. It does have its practical sides too.

    K.M. isn't designed to make its participants into world champion MMA fighters, or fight on an 0lympic judo squad. Its designed to be a very simplistic self defence system and nothing else.

    Probably more geared towards security personnel, but broken down into its basic components it should be a simple method of training the 'lay person' some very basic self defence skills.

    These same skills are probably thought in alot of traditional martial arts clubs as part of the clubs syllabus, but thats not much use if a person isn't interested in learning a traditonal art, or giving over the time to train in MMA.

    With that in mind the OP would do well to get in touch with Jon from this forum as I believe Jon has the credentials to point the OP in the right direction.

    OP if you want to learn a traditional M.A. or if MMA takes your fancy well there's any amount of excellent club reps using this forum too.

    Best of luck with whichever system you choose.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 133 ✭✭helpmeplease


    Hey, I have been really busy the last few days. I will reply properly when I get a chance but I just want to say thanks for now, there was a great response to this thread, thanks guys:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 512 ✭✭✭TKD SC


    As a sort of tag on to this thread (if that's ok), what range (not what MA please!) of fighting (stand, clinch, ground) do people think is more appropriate to be experienced in for a street / SD encounter?

    Yes, all 3! But any one above the others? Sorry, this may be a bit of a silly q's, but it's one of those Mondays and it just popped into my head there...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    Either very very good clinch or very very good striking or good clinch and striking. Good clinch will act as a decent substitute for no ground


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Either very very good clinch or very very good striking or good clinch and striking. Good clinch will act as a decent substitute for no ground

    This one. Fvck the ground, if the fight goes down there get back up. Strike and escape.

    Although its important to be well rounded (including a good ground game), but its a fool who thinks its cool to take a street fight to the ground.

    Some will say its a fool who'll fight on the street, but sometimes it can not be avoided.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Ideally i'd say all 3 but with good striking the other 2 should not be needed on the street, the trick is not to let an attacker near you! this is in a street fight though, in mma all 3 are equally important these days as it will be fought in all 3 ranges at some stage during almost all fights..

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭kravist


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Ideally i'd say all 3 but with good striking the other 2 should not be needed on the street, the trick is not to let an attacker near you! this is in a street fight though, in mma all 3 are equally important these days as it will be fought in all 3 ranges at some stage during almost all fights..

    In agreement at last..!


    Also..if possible dont forget accessing a weapon....could be your keys, kubotan keyring..a rock whatever.
    Escaping (as mentioned)is also a hugely important factor. DO what must be done to facilitate it!

    And for the record......you'ev survived 3 attacks..fair play..you must be doing something right!! SO..dont beat yourself up over it!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 133 ✭✭helpmeplease


    Thanks again for all the help and advice in this thread. Very much appreciated.
    I will be quite busy with work up until Christmas- is there any ideal time to take up a MA? I mean is there a 'season' or are newcomers welcome anytime?

    I'm leaning towards trying kickboxing or something similar, and perhaps take a few seminars in Krav maga.
    Some of the advice is conflicting so I figure I should give them all a fair chance.

    I have one other Q- someone mentioned combatives earlier? What is that? Is it like krav maga? Supposedly it is not a sport?

    Thanks a million for the help, the responses were comprehensive and generous. Cheers.


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