Agricultural Vehicles on Motorways?

MGrah

So, twice this week I've been held up by a tractor on the southbound M1 between Balbriggan and Donabate, couldn't have been doing much more than 35mph and in rush hour traffic (shortly before 9am). Aside from the obvious dangers of something going that slowly on the motor way, the delay is seriously frustrating and causing other road users to do some silly things trying to move into very small gaps to get around it etc.

Question is, is this actually illegal? Or just very inconsiderate?

pa990

as long as the vehicle is over 50cc and can do more than 50km/h

its legal

live with it

machiavellianme

How is it inconsiderate?
If they satisfy the criteria specified by pa990, they are as entitled to use the motorway as you are. Just because they travel slower than you might like doesnt make them inconsiderate. Do you think the same of trucks or electric cars that cant match your speeds? What about those towing a trailer and restricted by law to 80kph?

Alun

Agricultural vehicles are prohibited from using motorways in the UK, and as far as I know, in every other European country. Why they're not prohibited here also is anyone's guess, but as long as it's considered legal by those that make the laws, then there's nothing you can do about it unfortunately.

Personally, I'd take that 'vehicles capable of 50km/h or more' clause, and either increase the minimum speed to 80km/h, or just scrap it altogether and introduce a legally enforceable minimum speed limit.

machiavellianme

Alun wrote: »

Personally, I'd take that 'vehicles capable of 50km/h or more' clause, and either increase the minimum speed to 80km/h, or just scrap it altogether and introduce a legally enforceable minimum speed limit.

Cant see a legally enforceable minimum speed limit ever coming in with this countries love of roadworks/hedgeclipping/etc

High&Low

I can't see how a tractor on the motorway is a problem. If there is traffic (the M50) its no slower than the cars. If there is not much traffic, you can overtake it...

Seth Brundle

Has someone stolen the overtaking lane from that section of the M1?

alias no.9

High&Low wrote: »

I can't see how a tractor on the motorway is a problem. If there is traffic (the M50) its no slower than the cars. If there is not much traffic, you can overtake it...

Motorways are designed such that there should be no sudden changes in conditions, that is why it is safe for them to have a higher speed limit. On a reasonably busy motorway where traffic is travelling at between 100km/h and 120km/h, when the traffic meets a tractor trundeling along at 50km/h, suddenly the capacity of the motorway is halved. It becomes backed up very quickly and massively increases the risk of accidents. Think of it as a partially blocked pipe, you get a build up in pressure behind the blockage and the results can often be catastrophic.

peasant

As far as I know, (someone please correct me) there is only one model of tractor capable of / rated for going faster than 50 km/h and that is the JCB Fastrack.

So to my reckoning, unless it's a Fastrack, it's got no business on the motorway

deman

MGrah wrote: »

So, twice this week I've been held up by a tractor on the southbound M1 between Balbriggan and Donabate, couldn't have been doing much more than 35mph and in rush hour traffic (shortly before 9am).

How can you be "held up" on a motorway, by ONE tractor??

Step 1 - Check mirrors
Step 2 - Indicate (right:cool:)
Step 3 - Pull out
Step 4 - Accelerate to required overtaking speed.
Step 5 - Once passed, pull back in to left lane.

machiavellianme

peasant wrote: »

As far as I know, (someone please correct me) there is only one model of tractor capable of / rated for going faster than 50 km/h and that is the JCB Fastrack.

So to my reckoning, unless it's a Fastrack, it's got no business on the motorway

Quite a few contemporary tractors have gearboxes exceeding 50k. Also, putting longer wheelbases or deeper tyres on can significantly increase speed of those capped at 50kph up to 55kph just by having a longer circumference to travel per rotation. Many tractors are also limited by the garage and can be "opened up" to reach higher speeds. The tractor only has to be capable of reaching 50kph. It doesnt have to consistently adhere to it.

DublinDilbert

I thought it used to be vehicles must be capable of traveling at > 50MPH on a motor way??

Which i would assume would translate into 80kph? Has this changed? i would assume this stayed the same when we went to metric speed limits...

mikemac

Nope, it's definitly 50cc and 50km/h

So I can't take my 50cc moped on the M1 :eek:

machiavellianme

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I thought it used to be vehicles must be capable of traveling at > 50MPH on a motor way??

Which i would assume would translate into 80kph? Has this changed? i would assume this stayed the same when we went to metric speed limits...

It was never 50mph in Ireland. It used to be 30mph.

gsxr1

machiavellianme wrote: »

Quite a few contemporary tractors have gearboxes exceeding 50k. Also, putting longer wheelbases or deeper tyres on can significantly increase speed of those capped at 50kph up to 55kph just by having a longer circumference to travel per rotation. Many tractors are also limited by the garage and can be "opened up" to reach higher speeds. The tractor only has to be capable of reaching 50kph. It doesnt have to consistently adhere to it.

+1

One can buy a 50k box for most tractors or have the limiter taken out.

Even the fast trac is limited.

jimmycrackcorm

Today I passed a tractor which was pulled over on the M1 by the traffic corps.

Wishbone Ash

peasant wrote: »

As far as I know, (someone please correct me) there is only one model of tractor capable of / rated for going faster than 50 km/h and that is the JCB Fastrack.

So to my reckoning, unless it's a Fastrack, it's got no business on the motorway

I'll be very happy to correct you! Many modern tractors are capable of speeds in excess of 50kph. For example, most of the larger modern Fendt tractors would be capable of speeds way in excess of the bottom limit.

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I thought it used to be vehicles must be capable of traveling at > 50MPH on a motor way??

Which i would assume would translate into 80kph? Has this changed? i would assume this stayed the same when we went to metric speed limits...

DublinDilbert - it's back to school for you!

Rowley Birkin QC

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I thought it used to be vehicles must be capable of traveling at > 50MPH on a motor way??

[drunken post] That would be some tractor to be travelling at 50mph. This tractor bashing on boards really has to stop, they are essential vehicles on the roads, they don't travel as quickly as other vehicles....GET OVER IT![/drunken post]

Seth Brundle

Driving along the M50 this morning I saw loads of tractors and diggers!

Wishbone Ash

kbannon wrote: »

Driving along the M50 this morning I saw loads of tractors and diggers!

...at the roadworks!

craichoe

machiavellianme wrote: »

Quite a few contemporary tractors have gearboxes exceeding 50k. Also, putting longer wheelbases or deeper tyres on can significantly increase speed of those capped at 50kph up to 55kph just by having a longer circumference to travel per rotation. Many tractors are also limited by the garage and can be "opened up" to reach higher speeds. The tractor only has to be capable of reaching 50kph. It doesnt have to consistently adhere to it.

You can fit whatever you want to it, the garda won't give a hoot. With no way to prove that it can go over 50kph and your obstructing traffic they'll ticket you and tell you to get off the motorway.

Souping up your tractor with no way to prove it is useless, the cop has to go with the premise that it can't reach 50 kph rather than it can.

Motorbikes have a certificate of restriction you can show to a Garda to prove its restricted.

However saying that Tractors are a necessity in some ways, construction companies are using them to get around paying expensive road tax.

Lane changing on any motorway should be kept to a minimum.

What happens to all the traffic coming off a slip road that are joining the motorway behind a tractor doing 30-40 kph ?

Idleater

kbannon wrote: »

Has someone stolen the overtaking lane from that section of the M1?

yeah - duh, they put a tractor in it!

MGrah

woah woah woah - where to start - so many points people made - I'll do my best....

How is it insconsiderate?
Assuming it's legal etc, it's inconsiderate to drive it down at least a 5 mile stretch in rush hour, waiting 30 mins until after 9am would be considerate, assuming it's legal.

Has someone stolen the overtaking lane?
Nope.

How is it a problem?/Why not just overtake it?/considerately laid out instructions on overtaking...
It's a problem because as another poster said, it effectively removes one lane from operation at that point in the motorway, but it's not just that...the M1 generally moves on that stretch at 110 - 120kph in the overtaking lane, and 100+ in the driving lane, reducing the driving lane to 50kph for that spot causes everyone in the driving lane to either slow down to 50kph or overtake, when one person can't immediately overtake at some point they will have to slow down and then they will eventually move into the overtaking lane at 50 - 70kph causing both lanes to slow, with traffic building behind it. This is a problem and I would guess caused me close enough to a 5 minute delay on each occasion (doesn't seem that long when you put it like that does it?). Of course there's always the 80kphers who love the motorway network - but that's not the tractor drivers fault. Moving these guys from the driving lane to the overtaking lane adds to it.
Seriously I can't understand this question from people who obviously drive - have you never seen the effect that even a slow moving lorry at about 80kph can cause to a fast moving motorway?

Hope I covered everything - on a general note, far be it from me to bash tractors, I just think they should be kept off one of our busiest stretches of motorway during rush hour (possibly completely). This board always gives me a laugh how, no matter what the topic of someone's gripe, there's always others who will take an aggresive opposite view. Maybe it's just that driving styles are such a emotive topic, or maybe there's a bunch of people who just enjoy telling people to get over it, live with it, I have my rights etc?

craichoe

MGrah wrote: »

woah woah woah - where to start - so many points people made - I'll do my best....

How is it insconsiderate?
Assuming it's legal etc, it's inconsiderate to drive it down at least a 5 mile stretch in rush hour, waiting 30 mins until after 9am would be considerate, assuming it's legal.

Has someone stolen the overtaking lane?
Nope.

How is it a problem?/Why not just overtake it?/considerately laid out instructions on overtaking...
It's a problem because as another poster said, it effectively removes one lane from operation at that point in the motorway, but it's not just that...the M1 generally moves on that stretch at 110 - 120kph in the overtaking lane, and 100+ in the driving lane, reducing the driving lane to 50kph for that spot causes everyone in the driving lane to either slow down to 50kph or overtake, when one person can't immediately overtake at some point they will have to slow down and then they will eventually move into the overtaking lane at 50 - 70kph causing both lanes to slow, with traffic building behind it. This is a problem and I would guess caused me close enough to a 5 minute delay on each occasion (doesn't seem that long when you put it like that does it?). Of course there's always the 80kphers who love the motorway network - but that's not the tractor drivers fault. Moving these guys from the driving lane to the overtaking lane adds to it.
Seriously I can't understand this question from people who obviously drive - have you never seen the effect that even a slow moving lorry at about 80kph can cause to a fast moving motorway?

Hope I covered everything - on a general note, far be it from me to bash tractors, I just think they should be kept off one of our busiest stretches of motorway during rush hour (possibly completely). This board always gives me a laugh how, no matter what the topic of someone's gripe, there's always others who will take an aggresive opposite view. Maybe it's just that driving styles are such a emotive topic, or maybe there's a bunch of people who just enjoy telling people to get over it, live with it, I have my rights etc?

I can imagine the guys with John Deere hats jumping up and down in their seats right now :P

MDTyKe

It also says no "slow moving vehicles". If the tractor is moving slowly, I think it might make it break the law. To note though, it must have a flashing orange light if it is goign to go slow; otherwise it definately breaks the law.

You often see tractors on the N1 form Newry-Dundalk; recently I seen some NI tractors on it, in the main lanes. The ROI ones are usually good enough to use the hard shoulder.. but when they were in the lanes it was causing a huge queue behind them!!


Matt

yellow012

MGrah wrote: »

woah woah woah - where to start - so many points people made - I'll do my best....

How is it insconsiderate?
Assuming it's legal etc, it's inconsiderate to drive it down at least a 5 mile stretch in rush hour, waiting 30 mins until after 9am would be considerate, assuming it's legal.

Has someone stolen the overtaking lane?
Nope.

How is it a problem?/Why not just overtake it?/considerately laid out instructions on overtaking...
It's a problem because as another poster said, it effectively removes one lane from operation at that point in the motorway, but it's not just that...the M1 generally moves on that stretch at 110 - 120kph in the overtaking lane, and 100+ in the driving lane, reducing the driving lane to 50kph for that spot causes everyone in the driving lane to either slow down to 50kph or overtake, when one person can't immediately overtake at some point they will have to slow down and then they will eventually move into the overtaking lane at 50 - 70kph causing both lanes to slow, with traffic building behind it. This is a problem and I would guess caused me close enough to a 5 minute delay on each occasion (doesn't seem that long when you put it like that does it?). Of course there's always the 80kphers who love the motorway network - but that's not the tractor drivers fault. Moving these guys from the driving lane to the overtaking lane adds to it.
Seriously I can't understand this question from people who obviously drive - have you never seen the effect that even a slow moving lorry at about 80kph can cause to a fast moving motorway?

Hope I covered everything - on a general note, far be it from me to bash tractors, I just think they should be kept off one of our busiest stretches of motorway during rush hour (possibly completely). This board always gives me a laugh how, no matter what the topic of someone's gripe, there's always others who will take an aggresive opposite view. Maybe it's just that driving styles are such a emotive topic, or maybe there's a bunch of people who just enjoy telling people to get over it, live with it, I have my rights etc?

Yup, I'm with you on this one. Slow moving vehicles on motorways are just rolling road blocks and cause huge disruption. I've even seen these tractors trundling along the middle lane of the N7 between Naas and the Red Cow oblivious to all other motorist around them.
Anyone who says that these type of agricultural vehicles have every right to use these type of roads have no concept on of how motorways should work. Would you see them on motorways/autobahns in England or the continent? From my experience no. But sure this is Ireland and we do things differently.

Wishbone Ash

MDTyKe wrote: »

it must have a flashing orange light if it is goign to go slow; otherwise it definately breaks the law

This is a major problem in this forum - ignorance of the law!


MDTyKe - it is illegal to operate a flashing amber beacon on a tractor on a public road unless the tractor driver is operating hedge cutting equipment or involved in road construction/maintenance!

Tomas_V

MDTyKe wrote: »

The ROI ones are usually good enough to use the hard shoulder..

Isn't it illegal to drive along the hard shoulder?

Seth Brundle

...and it earns one points!

Idleater

yellow012 wrote: »

Yup, I'm with you on this one. Slow moving vehicles on motorways are just rolling road blocks and cause huge disruption.

Why the Fack do you not get out of my way then when I want to get by you?

And don't lie, as a motorcyclist, I can categorically state that you do get in my way.

Go on, clear off, you don't deserve the tarmac that could be occupied by at least 2 motorcycles.

Disruption caused by a tractor or two? You should try driving when there are a hundred thousand of you "blocking" _my_ way.

:rolleyes:

Rowley Birkin QC

nereid wrote: »

Why the Fack do you not get out of my way then when I want to get by you?

And don't lie, as a motorcyclist, I can categorically state that you do get in my way.

Go on, clear off, you don't deserve the tarmac that could be occupied by at least 2 motorcycles.

Disruption caused by a tractor or two? You should try driving when there are a hundred thousand of you "blocking" _my_ way.

:rolleyes:

Oilrig

Was told once that the 50kph (29 MPH) limit in the UK was due to tractors not having suspension - the JCB Fastrak being the exception here.

"MDTyKe - it is illegal to operate a flashing amber beacon on a tractor on a public road unless the tractor driver is operating hedge cutting equipment or involved in road construction/maintenance!"

...link to the relevant act & section please. Don't believe you.

If you are correct I would suggest its a daft piece of legislation, a flashing beacon on a slow moving vehicle surely enhances safety?

Seth Brundle

As discussed on boards a year ago: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-2054999553.html (3rd post)

Oilrig

Guess its an area where "discretion" is exercised? it certainly seems as if the relevant legislation is out of step with reality.

Will do a trawl tomorrow time permitting, suspect HSA regs may have something to say on this.

Wishbone Ash

Oilrig wrote: »

"MDTyKe - it is illegal to operate a flashing amber beacon on a tractor on a public road unless the tractor driver is operating hedge cutting equipment or involved in road construction/maintenance!"

...link to the relevant act & section please. Don't believe you.

Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963

42. No lamp (other than direction indicators) fitted to a vehicle shall show or be constructed or adapted so as to be capable of showing a flashing light unless such light is invisible to persons outside the vehicle.

Exemptions:

(18) (a) The requirements of Parts II and VI of these Regulations shall not apply to a lamp which is carried on an ambulance, a fire brigade vehicle or a vehicle being used by a member of the Garda Síochána in the performance of his duties as such member and which complies with the provisions of this sub-article.
(b) (i) The lamp shall where possible be fitted on the roof of the vehicle on a point on its longitudinal axis.
(ii) No part of the illuminated surface of the lamp shall be less than 5 feet from the ground.
(iii) The power of the lamp shall not exceed 50 watts.
(iv) The area of the orthogonal projection on to any vertical plane of that part of the lamp through which light is shown shall be capable of lying wholly within a square having sides of 9 inches in length.
(v) The light shown by the lamp shall be blue.


In 1979,under the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Ammendment) Regulations 1979 this was amended to include amber flashing lights on recovery vehicles, road works vehicles, snow ploughs, hedge cutters and road maintenance vehicles.

Oilrig wrote: »

Guess its an area where "discretion" is exercised? it certainly seems as if the relevant legislation is out of step with reality.

Will do a trawl tomorrow time permitting, suspect HSA regs may have something to say on this.

The IFA having been campaigning for years to have these regulations changed.

yellow012

nereid wrote: »

Why the Fack do you not get out of my way then when I want to get by you?

And don't lie, as a motorcyclist, I can categorically state that you do get in my way.

Go on, clear off, you don't deserve the tarmac that could be occupied by at least 2 motorcycles.

Disruption caused by a tractor or two? You should try driving when there are a hundred thousand of you "blocking" _my_ way.

:rolleyes:

OK so you think its a good idea to have slow moving agricultural traffic on motorways going at approx 50kph when all other traffic around them is usually travelling 50-80kph faster. Sure why not allow donkey and carts on the motorways as well?

Wishbone Ash

yellow012 wrote: »

OK so you think its a good idea to have slow moving agricultural traffic on motorways going at approx 50kph when all other traffic around them is usually travelling 50-80kph faster. Sure why not allow donkey and carts on the motorways as well?

I think nereid was referring to roads in general. I agree with him. Why do category B drivers always assume that they should have priority? Why do they think that their work is more important?

I could say "Tractors never delay me - cars delay me"! but I won't.

...maybe i just did!:eek:

yellow012

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I think nereid was referring to roads in general. I agree with him. Why do category B drivers always assume that they should have priority? Why do they think that their work is more important?

I could say "Tractors never delay me - cars delay me"! but I won't.

...maybe i just did!:eek:

Err, the thread is about agri vehicles on motorways, why on Boards does it always happen that people go off on tangents just to get their unrelated point across?
I live in rural Kildare, I get delayed by agri traffic every day, I have no problem with that, the farmers were living and working in the area long before I moved there. My concern is about sharing whats supposed to be a high capacity, high speed motorway network with tractors that were never designed to use them. Plus there is also the concern of the age/driving skills profile of the people driving these thing as well.

Idleater

yellow012 wrote: »

Plus there is also the concern of the age/driving skills profile of the people driving these thing as well.

So not only are you anti tractor, you are ageist as well

Nah, seriously, I sort of agree with you, but there is nothing illegal being done so perhaps you are only angry because you get "caught" behind them.

You should in theory be able to manoeuvre around them using your observation to spot them in the distance, and position your vehicle accordingly and in time.

L.

MGrah

nereid wrote: »

So not only are you anti tractor, you are ageist as well

Nah, seriously, I sort of agree with you, but there is nothing illegal being done so perhaps you are only angry because you get "caught" behind them.

You should in theory be able to manoeuvre around them using your observation to spot them in the distance, and position your vehicle accordingly and in time.

L.

In fairness to you Nereid I think you're playing devil's advocate here a bit (correct me if I'm wrong) and pointing out that it's not just these guys, and technically they are allowed to use the road as much as anyone else, but yellow is right in that there is too much 'should' bandied around this site.

Saying that he/I 'should' be able to manouver around them is kind of just ignoring the issues, granted you 'should' be able to but technically 80% of the traffic that drives continuously in the overtaking lane on the M1 "should" be in the driving lane, in reality it's not tho. Just like technically a Artic that comes upon this situation 'should' just stay in the driving lane and have to deal with chugging along behind the tractor at 50kph until it gets off the motorway, but they won't. They will try to overtake as soon as there's an opportunity and chaos insues.

This morning I was held up for about 10 minutes on the M1 from the Naul exit or so because somebody had pulled a Golf into the medien and abandoned it, and everyone else decided to slow down and have a look. Now if a car pulled in off the road can cause that without reducing the capacity of the motorway, then a 'rolling road block' in one lane can too. I think in fairness from your posts you know that though.

Yellow is also right though about threads on this forum often being hijacked by 'one-pointers' as I call them. From people who continuously make the "if someone was able to undertake you, you should have been in the inside lane" point to people who make the "I have my/they have their/we have our rights" points, using the letter of the law. It doesn't make for very constructive debate.

Boggins127

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

This is a major problem in this forum - ignorance of the law!


MDTyKe - it is illegal to operate a flashing amber beacon on a tractor on a public road unless the tractor driver is operating hedge cutting equipment or involved in road construction/maintenance!

Bull**** a flashing amber is too show other drivers of a risk to them..i am a tractor driver and hate this kinda **** we have to drive these roads to reach our farms fields etc...The amber light shows that the vehicle is travelling slowly and be aware..If u actually drive u would notice this.. if u see an amber flasher what do u do????
Thanks,
Dave:cool:

Seth Brundle

Just because you disagree with it doen't mean that you are correct & that it is legal:

Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 wrote:

42. No lamp (other than direction indicators) fitted to a vehicle shall show or be constructed or adapted so as to be capable of showing a flashing light unless such light is invisible to persons outside the vehicle.

Exemptions:

(18) (a) The requirements of Parts II and VI of these Regulations shall not apply to a lamp which is carried on an ambulance, a fire brigade vehicle or a vehicle being used by a member of the Garda Síochána in the performance of his duties as such member and which complies with the provisions of this sub-article.
(b) (i) The lamp shall where possible be fitted on the roof of the vehicle on a point on its longitudinal axis.
(ii) No part of the illuminated surface of the lamp shall be less than 5 feet from the ground.
(iii) The power of the lamp shall not exceed 50 watts.
(iv) The area of the orthogonal projection on to any vertical plane of that part of the lamp through which light is shown shall be capable of lying wholly within a square having sides of 9 inches in length.
(v) The light shown by the lamp shall be blue.


In 1979,under the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Ammendment) Regulations 1979 this was amended to include amber flashing lights on recovery vehicles, road works vehicles, snow ploughs, hedge cutters and road maintenance vehicles.

E@gle.

hmm i can seem to remember that there is a lane on the right called the overtaking lane

maidhc

kbannon wrote: »

Just because you disagree with it doen't mean that you are correct & that it is legal:

Inded, flashing amber lights on tractors are illegal, but I don't think anyone is going to get prosecuted anytime soon for it.

Lot of stupid comments on this tread tbh. Reality is that many tractors satisfy the 50cc and 50kph rule, and thus are allowed on motorways... end of story. if people can't pull out in ample time to overtake then it says something about the attention they are paying to what is going on ahead of them.

The truckers are left in a quandry alright, but, what can you do, they are just as likely to be stalled by a clown in an Almera or whatnot doing about 40mph.

yellow012

E@gle. wrote: »

hmm i can seem to remember that there is a lane on the right called the overtaking lane

Sorry mate have you actually read any of the previous posts in the thread?
If you’re too lazy to read it through, I’ll point you towards MGrah post #23 on why overtaking the slow moving vehicle is not always that straightforward.
If you think his reasoning is sh1te then come up a better contribution than this sarcastic :rolleyes:one liner.

L1011

kbannon wrote: »

Has someone stolen the overtaking lane from that section of the M1?

This is Ireland, half the drivers will be treating it as a second driving lane. :rolleyes:

If caught behind something slow on motorways here its usually nigh on impossible to get in to the overtaking lane - M4 seems to be the worst for this due to being 2 lane all the way and yet moving fast enough to have people at 120k in the o/taking lane.