Setting up a bookies

thebiggestjim

Hi,

A friend of mine is looking to set up his own bookies but we are finding it difficult to find info on the web.

There is something on the revenue commissioners about bookies paying a 1% duty. So if there is anyone with some experience setting up a bookies some info would be appreciated.

1) How do you get a bookmakers license and how much

2) How much of a float would you need to get the business running

3) Is that duty 1% of bets received or payouts

4) Any useful links?

5) Any other info?


Thanks.

masterK

I always thought setting up a bookies was next to impossible, I thought you could only buy a license from an existing bookie.

The 1% is on bets taken, it used to be the tax that was passed on to the customer but since it was reduced the bookies absorb it.

As for start up money, you would need to ensure that he could sustain a really bad run of results. The amount he would need would depend greatly on whether there would be a maximum payout. Paddy Power paid out 800k earlier this year to somebody who had a 7 or 8 horse accumulator.

cson

Market is saturated at the minute imho. In fact you'll see an awful lot of independent bookmakers are closing down or selling out to the major chains (Powers etc).

Does your friend have any prior knowledge of bookmaking/horses?

thebiggestjim

cson wrote: »

Market is saturated at the minute imho. In fact you'll see an awful lot of independent bookmakers are closing down or selling out to the major chains (Powers etc).

Does your friend have any prior knowledge of bookmaking/horses?

He would know a lot about horses but not of bookmaking apart from been on the customer side of the counter. He has a good head for numbers and would be good at it I believe. He talked about maybe starting with one of the established chains and learning the trade and then starting a place.

As for starting cash, he would not be taking any massive risk himself as in if he took a big bet he would lay some of it off. He realises one or two big hits and he is a gonner.

Mountjoy Mugger

He would also need to be bonded - be able to show that he could cover up to something like a million, afaik.

Google will give you some ideas

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=724363

cson

thebiggestjim wrote: »

He would know a lot about horses but not of bookmaking apart from been on the customer side of the counter. He has a good head for numbers and would be good at it I believe. He talked about maybe starting with one of the established chains and learning the trade and then starting a place.

As for starting cash, he would not be taking any massive risk himself as in if he took a big bet he would lay some of it off. He realises one or two big hits and he is a gonner.

Tbh, just being a customer wouldn't give you a good indication of what the trade is like. The best suggestion I could give is that he go for a manager job (If he's suitably qualified) with one of the major chains and see if he likes it, get to know whats involved in the job and then take it from there.

Hobart

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

He would also need to be bonded - be able to show that he could cover up to something like a million, afaik.

Google will give you some ideas

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=724363

I don't think a bond is necessary to setup a bookies.

ramtha

If your friend is seriously considering setting up a shop he MUST strongly consider putting in an inrunning facility.there are numerous type inrunning shops in the uk and NONE in ireland.there would be very little extra costs as he would already be paying for sis etc..and it would be basically be just having the extra room needed and pc's etc..if you put it in the right location you could get yourself a few regulars paying 20-30e a day.5 regulars pays about a grand a week.some shops in the uk have 20+seats.I don;t know much about the basics of setting up a bookmakers but if you post something on the irish section of the betfair forum you may get more info.I already do inrunning fulltime and have considered moving to england but decided against it.if there was a facility available in ireland i would consider renting somewhere(if it was;nt dublin!).i already talked about it on the betfair forum and there is definately interest in one.http://www.exchangebet-incardiff.co.uk/ is one of the shops in england.

thebiggestjim

ramtha wrote: »

If your friend is seriously considering setting up a shop he MUST strongly consider putting in an inrunning facility.there are numerous type inrunning shops in the uk and NONE in ireland.there would be very little extra costs as he would already be paying for sis etc..and it would be basically be just having the extra room needed and pc's etc..if you put it in the right location you could get yourself a few regulars paying 20-30e a day.5 regulars pays about a grand a week.some shops in the uk have 20+seats.I don;t know much about the basics of setting up a bookmakers but if you post something on the irish section of the betfair forum you may get more info.I already do inrunning fulltime and have considered moving to england but decided against it.if there was a facility available in ireland i would consider renting somewhere(if it was;nt dublin!).i already talked about it on the betfair forum and there is definately interest in one.http://www.exchangebet-incardiff.co.uk/ is one of the shops in england.

Thanks ramtha for the info, betfair forum is a good idea. Ill pass on the message

ian.f

ramtha wrote: »

If your friend is seriously considering setting up a shop he MUST strongly consider putting in an inrunning facility.there are numerous type inrunning shops in the uk and NONE in ireland.

Chronicles off Grafton street in Dublin have an in running facility. Never been in myself tho, gonna pay it a visit soon

mchurl

ian.f wrote: »

Chronicles off Grafton street in Dublin have an in running facility. Never been in myself tho, gonna pay it a visit soon

chronicles in Deansgrange have it as well, its a great facility to be able to use, and would draw in a lot more customers. I love the use of it, and being able to trade in a normal bookie location.

siucra1

thebiggestjim wrote: »

Hi,

A friend of mine is looking to set up his own bookies but we are finding it difficult to find info on the web.

There is something on the revenue commissioners about bookies paying a 1% duty. So if there is anyone with some experience setting up a bookies some info would be appreciated.

1) How do you get a bookmakers license and how much GET personal fitness certificate fr garda

2) How much of a float would you need to get the business running ,,,,,,

3) Is that duty 1% of bets received or payouts TURNOVER

4) Any useful links? REVENUE COM, BOOKMAKING.

5) Any other info?VERY EXP TO SET UP SHOP.BOND IS CHEAP,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Thanks.

HOPE THAT HELPS

ramtha

I did;nt think that the inrunning facility they have was 'a proper one' so to speak. I thought it was betdaq they were linked to with a hefty in built house commission but i have never been in there so i don;t really know as it was just somebody else on another website that told me that..

MarkOShea

Aside from what's been said already, I would imagine the licensing fees for SIS are also pretty hefty.

BrandonBlock

I don't think you'd need that much startup capital I mean, if you take a bet that has a potential liability of €800,000 - just go down to paddy power or betfair and do the same bet there = bet cancelled out. You would NEED to do this for all lottery bets for the first few years anyway they have huge liabilities. Other than that just the usual shop startup costs + getting the gambling license.

[Edit] Just I think this is a really good idea and should definitely be encouraged. Paddy power/Ladbrokes/Boylesports have too much of a monopoly on the market and they set their book percentages insanely high. 150%-160% on some horse races (meaning if they take enough bets on all selections in the race, they will make 50%-60% profit on the race) same with dogs. Less so with football. I'd say go for it, but offer better odds than any of them.

cson

Not gonna happen I'm afraid BrandonBlock. Powers et al hold too much of the market for anyone to be able to dent it. You'll notice that a load of independent bookies are being bought out by the bigger firms. An awful lot of independents are getting out of it.

One thing I forgot to note was how labour intensive the job is, i.e. The hours are huge. 9:30am - 9:30pm days are not uncommon during the summer.

raheny red

Agree with Cson. It's going to be very hard to get in on this market especially with the big boys about. Even with better odds available it's going to be very hard to get a small chunk of other bookies customers in through the doors. One reason IMO why the bigger firms are getting more people through their doors is due to interior and design. May sound a bit gay and dainty but people prefer to be surrounded by colour and comfort. The bigger firms have this (Boyles and Powers, and I've noticed that Ladbrokes are doing up a lot of their shops now). On the other hand smaller bookies are dull and lifeless amd as a result people are moving away from them!

ramtha

I believe that there is an opening for an exchange type shop where customers are offered standard prices and also the prices available on the exchange BUT with an inbuilt house commission. The novelty factor would be huge. people getting 300/1 on their 25/1 shots on the liveshows sometimes etc.. Also placebetting available and the ability to lay horses in a bookmakers for the first time would be huge attractions for regulars to the other chains. There are numerous bookmakers on the main street in limerick. If you put in one shop like this you;d have all their customers in a week and they would have absolutely nothing to compete with you. The 'high street' is crying out for a revolution imo..

malene

Does anyone know any bookmakers who have or are closing down and are selling off TV's , equipment, fixtures and fittings etc.

Thanks,

mal

meriwether

malene wrote: »

Does anyone know any bookmakers who have or are closing down and are selling off TV's , equipment, fixtures and fittings etc.

Thanks,

mal

Give Ivan Yates a bell. Im only half joking.

The increase in revenue tax has bollixed the bookies. I read a Davy report last week on Powers.

Revenue is a billion. Profit after gross payout is €125m. Cost of sales are 88m leaving EBITDA profit of €33m. Revenue tax of 2% is €20m, leaving 13m. Then corporation tax kicks in at 12.5% (on €33m), which is 4.2m. This leaves profit after tax of €8.8m.

So, from taxable profit of €33m to after tax of €8.8m is an effective tax rate of 73%.

Thats predicated on Powers superior risk management leaving it with 12.5% of gamblers money after payouts. Take an unsophisticated Independents - lets say they retain 8% - its bankruptcy time.

I know the Finance bill just published has made some amendments to the levy - this is now tax deductable, and wont move from 1% to 2% until May.

This would mean powers pay income tax on €13m, leaving them with a PAT of €11.37m, an effective tax rate of 65% (assuming 2% levy).

Anyhow my advice to anyone setting up an independent bookie is 'dont'.

I dont care how clever your buddy is. He's not cleverer than the combined PLC of Paddy Powers, and they are operating on a margin of 12%, and then get cleaned by the levy.

Finance act 2006 prohibits the passing on of this levy onto customers also.

Ramsey Red Noise

Did your friend have any luck with setting up his bookmaking shop.

Ive also looked into the buisness set up as ive been working in a local shop for the past 15 years and i would agree that in certain towns there is definitly a market to have a crack at.

Ive done lots of research and still find it hard to find out about certain information.

Fentdog84

SIS is something like 15K per year

mountai

Talk to the lads that did the job in Kilbeggan. They really know "HOW TO SET UP THE BOOKIES!!!!!

Rockard

There is already an in-running shop opened in Dublin

see www.ifscsportstrading.com