Who has right of way here?

kluivert

GF was in accident with old woman on main st of hometown.

The main st is a straight street.

GF was at the T Junction to turn right, there is a lane for left and right, its a one way side street.

Now, on the far side of the road, parked, was the old lady. her park was parked facing left, on the opposite side of the road (when she pulls out her nose she is automatically going against the flow of traffic).

Now, when the road was clear, left and right, the GF pulled out of the junction going right. At the same the old lady pulled out of her parking space and the both of them meet corner to corner on the drivers side in the middle of the road.

The old lady was heading in the direction opposite to GF, so if the old lady was also pulling out of the junction the lady would have went left, GF would have went right.

Who has right of way, GF pulling of junction from side street to main street, or lady pulling out of parking space, against flow of traffic, to cross to the other side of the road to procedure with her journey.

Note there was little or no traffic on the main st at the time of impact.

Kurumba

I encounter this every day coming out of work also.
I'm at a stop sign waiting to turn left onto a main road from a sidestreet. There is a street exactly opposite me with a stop sign also and i knew it could be potentially dangerous, as when the main road is clear and there is a car opposite me, I didn't know who was right to turn first.
I checked the new rules of the road book and it says the driver turning left must be given the right of way. Maybe have a look at the rules of the road online and confirm that but i'm pretty sure.

ballooba

The old lady would surely be in the wrong given that she is on the wrong side of the road. I can't see any other conclusion making sense.

kluivert

Spoke to two different Garda, not based in the town, as the Gardas in the town didnt want to know unless someone was injuired.

Both of them said that the lady was at fault because she didnt have enough due care and attention from pulling out of her parking space to notice the GF exiting the junction the move onto the main st. Plus they said that she was parked facing the flow of traffic on the opposite side of the road.

The insurance said to me there now, the GF is at fault because she was coming onto the main st from junction.


There is nothing in the Rules of the Roads to cover this point.

Del2005

You have to give way to people already on the major road. GF was coming from minor road so old lady has right of way. Doesn't really matter which way the old lady was travelling.

Blitzkrieger

The old lady was parked, so I don't see how she could be 'on the main road'. Surely she should be done for driving without due care and attention for not checking the road was clear before moving off. By the sounds of things she should also be done for dangerous parking for parking too close to a junction - an offense that can carry up to 6 penalty points?

kluivert wrote: »

Plus they said that she was parked facing the flow of traffic on the opposite side of the road.

It's only illegal to park on the opposite side of the road at night.....unless that's changed in the new rotr...

ballooba

I thought if you were on the wrong side of the road that it was a closed case.

dudara

I'd have to agree with Blitzkrieger here. The old lady was parked and therefore not part of traffic. Your girlfriend was part of traffic. That's my logic anyway. It may not be correct but it kind of makes sense.

TBH, I can see why it's a gray area.

deman

I would think that it was the old lady. She was parked on the wrong side of the road and the law states (although it is NEVER enforced) that your car must be parked in accordance with the directional flow of the traffic. Actually, the reason why the gardai don't want to get involved is because they weren't doing their job in enforcing this law. They should be challenged in a case like this for not doing their job.

kluivert

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

It's only illegal to park on the opposite side of the road at night.....unless that's changed in the new rotr...

This happened at 12 o clock during the day.

kluivert

Del2005 wrote: »

You have to give way to people already on the major road. GF was coming from minor road so old lady has right of way. Doesn't really matter which way the old lady was travelling.

Agreed but the lady was park the far side of the main st

deman

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

It's only illegal to park on the opposite side of the road at night.....unless that's changed in the new rotr...

irishstatutebook wrote:

(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—

( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;

( b ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 019 [No Parking sign] has been provided, during the period indicated on the information plate accompanying such traffic sign;

( c ) within 5 metres of a road junction;

( d ) on a section of roadway with less than 3 traffic lanes and where traffic sign number RRM 001 [continuous white line] has been provided;

( e ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 020, in association with RRM 029 [appointed stand], has been placed to indicate that an appointed stand has been provided;

( f ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing, delaying or interfering with the entrance to or exit from a fire brigade station, an ambulance station or a Garda station;

( g ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises;

( h ) within 15 metres (on the approach side) or 5 metres (on the side other than the approach side) of a section of roadway where any of the following traffic signs have been provided—

(i) traffic sign number RPC 001 [Pedestrian Crossing];

(ii) traffic sign number RPC 002 [Pedestrian Crossing Complex]; or

(iii) traffic sign numbers RTS 00I, RTS 002, RTS 003 or RTS 004 [traffic lights];

( i ) on a footway, a grass margin or a median strip;

( j ) on a part of a roadway which is a casual trading area, during hours of trading, unless the vehicle is for the time being in use for the purposes of casual trading;

( k ) in a manner in which it will interfere with the normal flow of traffic or which obstructs or endangers other traffic;

( l ) where traffic sign RUS 031 [bus stop] or RRM 030 [stopping place or stand] has been provided unless the vehicle is an omnibus.

According to this and according to what I understand from the OP's post, the old lady broke two laws (in bold above).

Del2005

deman wrote: »

the law states (although it is NEVER enforced) that your car must be parked in accordance with the directional flow of the traffic.

Can you provide the link for this? Never heard that before over here, did hear about it in the US where they do enforce it.

Tomas_V

Del2005 wrote: »

Can you provide the link for this? Never heard that before over here, did hear about it in the US where they do enforce it.

SI 181/1997:

9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.

Also relevant to the incident described here:

When starting from a stationary position a driver shall yield the right of way to other traffic and pedestrians.

I've often had to swerve to avoid cars driven at me by people 'swooping' into wrong-side parking spaces.

deman

Del2005 wrote: »

Can you provide the link for this? Never heard that before over here, did hear about it in the US where they do enforce it.

It's enforced in almost every country in Europe too. The Gardai don't enforce it because the attitude is "well if the Brits don't enforce it, why should we?" Here in Finland, drivers wouldn't dream of parking on the wrong side. They know that as soon as they get back to the car, there's a 50 Euro fine waiting for them on the windscreen.

Del2005

deman wrote: »

It's enforced in almost every country in Europe too. The Gardai don't enforce it because the attitude is "well if the Brits don't enforce it, why should we?" Here in Finland, drivers wouldn't dream of parking on the wrong side. They know that as soon as they get back to the car, there's a 50 Euro fine waiting for them on the windscreen.

Just because it's a law somewhere else doesn't make it law here. We are all independent countries, so far. The section of the Irish Statute you quoted for parking doesn't mention it so unless you can provide a link for an Irish law banning parking against the flow of traffic I'd have to say you are incorrect.

pbug21

Lady is surely in the wrong. She was parked, GF was actual traffic on the road. Was she even parked legally. Can you park opposite junction like that?

MargeS

pbug21 wrote: »

Lady is surely in the wrong. She was parked, GF was actual traffic on the road. Was she even parked legally.

+1

Seth Brundle

The way I read it: the GF was stopped at the junction, looked around nd decided to move. She did not notice the hazard in front of her and there was contact.
Now was the hazard moving before the GF joined the road? If so then the GF IMO was responsible. If the hazard pulled out of her space after the GF had turned then she was at fault. However, neither car would (presumably) have been going at speed so Im inclined to go blame Peig pulling out!

Del2005

Looks like it'll be a 50/50 then, unless your GF can get video footage of the junction. Old lady was illegally parked, but may have moved off onto road before GF noticed. GF was coming from minor road to major road and hit old lady. Hard to call.

meathstevie

As far as I know when leaving a parking spot, be it a legal one or not, you have to yield to ALL traffic.

mathew

it is illegal to park within 5 meters of a junction unless a parking space is clearly marked out.
Where possible you should park with the flow of traffic.
When moving off from a kerb you must give way to other traffic and pedestrians.

http://www.rsa.ie/PUBLICATIONS/upload/File/ROTR_2007.pdf

Page 112 for parking
Page 40 for moving off

kluivert

Its a side road with two lanes (one left, one right) to turn onto the main road. Directly on the far side and to the right was the old lady parked.

They meet in the middle of the road, to me it sounds like they both pulled off at the same time.

I noticed last night of the pics of the old ladys car, that there are two big dents on the wing, too high up to be caused by GF's car, we're thinking that she's claiming to have all the things repaired on the car that would possibly have been caused by herself.

GF is going to put in a claim against her, just got a text from her. It will cost her 1450e through Opel, when she was willing to pay 470e to a panel beater to fix her own car. No wonder insurance premiums are so high in this country.

crotalus667

mathew wrote: »

Where possible you should park with the flow of traffic.

I did my B test about 2 year's back , one of the way's that the tester's will try and catch you out is to ask you to park on the other side of the road , when asked to do the what they really mean is do a turn and park on the other side of the road so that you are going with the flow of traffic if you simply park facing into the flow of traffic it is an automatic fail because in order to park that way you must drive on the wrong side of the road , therefore the MATURE lady was in the wrong

Del2005

crotalus667 wrote: »

I did my B test about 2 year's back , one of the way's that the tester's will try and catch you out is to ask you to park on the other side of the road , when asked to do the what they really mean is do a turn and park on the other side of the road so that you are going with the flow of traffic if you simply park facing into the flow of traffic it is an automatic fail because in order to park that way you must drive on the wrong side of the road , therefore the MATURE lady was in the wrong

Thats only illegal if there is a continous white line. If it was illegal why do the rules of the road allow it? From page 112 of the ROTR

Where possible, park in the direction of traffic flow.

If it was illegal then they would have. Never park against the flow of traffic, which they have in the US and Finland.

kluivert

Del2005 wrote: »

Thats only illegal if there is a continous white line. If it was illegal why do the rules of the road allow it? From page 112 of the ROTR

I read that myself as well.

MercMad

Its a dodgey one though !

As I see it the old lady was no longer parked, she was manouvering, and therefore driving on the wrong side of the road !

Since both drivers' side front areas were damaged it would seem to indicate a certain lack of due care, I mean it takes a driver quite a bit of time to get the fron RHS of the car from kerbside to the centre of the road !!

One for the insurance companies I expect !

Tomas_V

Del2005 wrote: »

Thats only illegal if there is a continuous white line.

Regardless of which way a vehicle is facing, you can't park on a road with a continuous white line down the centre unless it has three or more traffic lanes.

A vehicle shall not be parked—
.... within 5 metres of a road junction;
(OR)
....on a section of roadway with less than 3 traffic lanes and where traffic sign number RRM 001 [continuous white line] has been provided;

So, the lady was illegally & dangerously parked, didn't give way while starting and then collided with another vehicle while driving on the wrong side of the road.

Even if she avoids some liability, she should be in for a stack of penalty points.

kluivert

Thanks to everyone for there comments.

There was some very good points raised.

The white line down the middle of the road is a broke white line am afraid.

Its now with the insurance company. I spoke to them this morning, they told me that the old lady (late 50's) is saying that GF is at fault because she pulled out of side street, where there was a yield sign. Theres no yield sign! Theres a stop sign, am not sure if that makes any difference though. Basicly same principles apply to a yield and a stop sign.

GF is going to argue that she had right away because the other party was 1) not take of the traffic on the main st 2) pulled out of a parking space facing oncoming traffic without due care and attention for other road users.

For the insurance company the best possibly outcome is 50/50, that way both parties lose there NCB's.

deman

kluivert wrote: »

Basicly same principles apply to a yield and a stop sign.

Not "quite completely" true. As you know, at a STOP sign, the vehicle must come a COMPLETE stop before proceeding. At a YIELD sign, slowing down to an appropriate speed is adequate. Just make sure that if this goes any further, your GF states solidly that she was stopped and didn't just yield.