Lasers (Split from Toys 4 Big Boys Thread)

Fallschirmjager

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Nice little lazer on it.

and according to people in the know here on the legal front, that little laser is against the law...

Masada

yeah it is when used on an airsoft gun., id imagind they'll clear that law up soon enough though, its just a techicallity kinda thing as far as i know.,

sidneyreilly

vtec wrote: »

yeah it is when used on an airsoft gun., id imagind they'll clear that law up soon enough though, its just a techicallity kinda thing as far as i know.,

Only way that will get cleared up is when some poor sod faces the bench with that as one of the charges. If convicted of it, then...

Dont recomend that any of ye be the first to test it.

Nick_oliveri

Well there is a cheap holosight and a lazer on the cheapo m41 that i got. And a torch, cheap holosight and a lazer on the shotguns. The shotguns look well with and without the stuff. Had to open up mine (m41) today because of a blockage.

Sometimes the bb's break up when i hit something (hard!). Never experienced this with older slide bb guns or older aegs. But i haven't bought anything good since i first heard about the scene.

Stercus Accidit

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Wasnt that bad though when working. For a tenner you cant complain of being ripped off. Extras just nuts though. Length extension, quad rail, suppresor, sight and laser!

Were they selling airsofts with lasers at t4bb?

"they" is the not so reputables!

That would be more semi legal practice on their part if its the case.

Spitfire666

well there were people selling l96 rifles that were blatently showing no regard for the law so selling a lazer is not exactly something to be worried about.

Stercus Accidit

Yeah I heard that too, and one retailer was sent home because of overpowered gear.

Just thought the laser issue further highlighted the general ignorance of the law of some of the stalls, though we dont know for sure either whether the lasers are illegal or not!:D

But its still a grey area.

Nick_oliveri

Ireland is known for its exploitation of grey areas. Just look at the whole Magic Mushrooms thing and the recent legal xtc outrage.

Anyways i cant wait till i have enough eurs to shell out on some durable, nice looking rifles or pistols. Im really annoyed that i missed the Eirsoft stalls.

extremetaz

Motosam wrote: »

Just thought the laser issue further highlighted the general ignorance of the law of some of the stalls, though we dont know for sure either whether the lasers are illegal or not!

Part 5 section 26 of the 2006 CJA states that telescopic sights incorperating a light beam, light amplification or infra-red technology and designed for fitment to a firearm as described in the same section are considered constituent parts of a firearm and as such require a firearms licence.

it places no prejudice on standard optical sights or laser pointer/designators.

ambro25

extremetaz wrote: »

Part 5 section 26 of the 2006 CJA states that telescopic sights incorperating a light beam, light amplification or infra-red technology and designed for fitment to a firearm as described in the same section are considered constituent parts of a firearm and as such require a firearms licence.

it places no prejudice on standard optical sights or laser pointer/designators.

TBH, the more I get back to S.5 2006 CJA and try and get my head around it w regard to airsoft, the more I believe this is designed to catch night sights (IR /starlight amplification -types) and/or sights equipped with range-finding devices.

Lasers designaters of their own (as in, the small steel tube that emits a laser beam and nothing else) are eminently not telescopic: to be telescopic, I believe a sight has to have a magnification ratio. What is more, they are not, strictly speaking, 'sights'.

As has been often mooted in discussions about the subject, and this is where the greyness arises most, you could theoretically fix a presentation pointer to your barrel or handguard, or use a €10 DE laser designator as a presentation pointer, and what would the difference be? Technically, none. Legally, well...

The current position (lasers = bad) is a matter of consensus and mostly inspired to protect the sport: it is based on a cautious (self-preserving) interpretation of the Act. Nothing wrong with that, but it may be worthwhile seeking 'the word' from officialdom whenever any poster in here gets the chance (ask a Guard in the know, a ballistic tester... whatever).

Rew

Telescopic means somethiong that telescopes, (ie collapses into its self). What people have on AEG's and real steels are Optical Sights.

The law certainly isn't clear but its always been the understanding of those in the shooting community that that lasers designed to attach to a firearm are what is refered to in that section.

ambro25

Rew wrote: »

Telescopic means somethiong that telescopes, (ie collapses into its self). What people have on AEG's and real steels are Optical Sights.

Not so, Rew, sorry. Well, at least not where sights are concerned.

Go here.

Extract (IMO the most relevant and best-supported) :

A telescope (from the Greek tele = 'far' and skopein = 'to look or see'; teleskopos = 'far-seeing') is an instrument designed for the observation of remote objects.

bullets, where's your post gone? There were some very valid points made
(not to mention, it tended to concur with my current interpretation )

Hivemind187

I'm afraid ambro is right, when folks are referring to something being telescopic they mean it imitates the action on the traditional collapsable telescope (ie a small tube collapsing into a smaller tube).

Masada

Yeah i agree with ambro and bullets, he made some very good points there, have seen worse posted and not getting removed.,

sidneyreilly

ambro25 wrote: »

Not so, Rew, sorry. Well, at least not where sights are concerned.

Go here.

Extract (IMO the most relevant and best-supported) :

A telescope (from the Greek tele = 'far' and skopein = 'to look or see'; teleskopos = 'far-seeing') is an instrument designed for the observation of remote objects.

bullets, where's your post gone? There were some very valid points made (not to mention, it tended to concur with my current interpretation )

Again, it will be determined at some stage in the courts (as far as I know it has not happened yet). You can also bet that if someone gets away with it the definition will swiftly be changed!

kdouglas

vtec wrote: »

Yeah i agree with ambro and bullets, he made some very good points there, have seen worse posted and not getting removed.,

bullets deleted his own post

bullets: if you want it put back just say the word

The main issue as far as i knew regarding laser sights was the fact that they can possibly be considered component parts of a firearm since they are designed to be attached to real steel firearms, the reason why the charter bans them is because of the uncertain nature of whether or not they are legal and is primarily a move to protect boards.ie, if we were all to post saying yea, lasers are fine, no bother, then someone is up in court for having one, that person could turn around and try sue boards

Oh, and this is getting very off-topic so i am going to split it into a seperate thread

Masada

kdouglas wrote: »

bullets deleted his own post

Oh right, I thought it was a bit tame to have been deleted, was an awful lot of writing to do and then delete.,lol, you made some good points bullets, I have a laser sight too but i rather leave it off my pistols just to be on the safe side, theres another question, is it still thought to be illegal if its not attached to a gun? as in is it just a laser pointer until you attach it?

sidneyreilly

vtec wrote: »

Oh right, I thought it was a bit tame to have been deleted, was an awful lot of writing to do and then delete.,lol, you made some good points bullets, I have a laser sight too but i rather leave it off my pistols just to be on the safe side, theres another question, is it still thought to be illegal if its not attached to a gun? as in is it just a laser pointer until you attach it?

If its designed to be attached/mounted then (probably): yes.

If its been altered or adapted to be attached/mounted (probably): yes.

If you have a laser pointer on it's own: no.

If you get stopped, searched, have a pistol/airsoft in one pocket, laser pointer in the other and some tape/screws: Possible intent, ergo prove otherwise!

kdouglas

sidneyreilly wrote: »

If you get stopped, searched, have a pistol/airsoft in one pocket, laser pointer in the other and some tape/screws: Possible intent, ergo prove otherwise!

if you had it in your pocket you'd be charged with alot more than intent to mount a laser

Masada

kdouglas wrote: »

if you had it in your pocket you'd be charged with alot more than intent to mount a laser

PMSL., im just picturing that scenario.,lol

"Im arresting you, under section 30 for unlawful possesion of a laser with intent to mount it on your gun while in a public place,

sidneyreilly

kdouglas wrote: »

if you had it in your pocket you'd be charged with alot more than intent to mount a laser

True:D But you get my point, its an "in context" situ.

Fallschirmjager

KD i am not sure if this is off the topic and if it is feel free to remove it dude but i do have one other closely related issue.

the power of a lot of the current attachable lasers are meant for hollywood like effects (visible beam etc). now i know they all have a beam but my issue would be more related to health and safety. shining a 635nm laser in your back garden for a laugh is one thing, but using it in game is a whole different matter. by and large we always try to limit exposuse which normally means the only visible part is our head. considering some of the later brands of laser are strong enough to damage eyesight, should we not decide, to ban them in game anyways.

dont get me wrong, i love the idea of them as well, but not at the expense of someones eyesight...

bullets

Sorry guys I deleted my earlier reply/post.
One of those replys that you are not sure to post or not to post,
and keep editing over and over again and no matter
what way you word it wont keep everyone happy!!!

I personally would not recommend them for skirmishing but
for mounting on an AEG for fun or for giving it a look
for display purposes I am all for it.

The Charter on this board mentions not to discuss
about the use and importation of laser pointers that are mountable
and says they are illegal/restricted. I had deleted my reply
cos I could not be arsed in arguing.

Since there is a separate topic on this
and by discussing if they are legal or not legal
I am guessing it does not breech discussing importing or using.
so will have re-posted it.

Sorry if this annoys anyone .....
People keep saying here that Laser sights are illegal
yet if you look at the photos thread here you will see AEG's with
them attached. If you goto anyplace thats selling el-cheapo airsoft
products you will find laser sights attached on some of them.


It is of my opinion that they are perfectly Legal.
I have yet to see any legal documents worded to
say they are 100% Legal or 100% illegal or restricted.

The firearms act has nothing about Laser pointers/Laser Sights in
its definitions. Light emmiting telescopic sights yes! Lasers on their
own as in not part of a telescope sight NO.

The firearms act can be interpreted is different ways
as its written vaguely. Every time the subject of laser pointers or sights
attached to either a fire arm or airsoft comes up the same bit of
the firearms act keeps getting quoted.

Section 1 (1) (g)(i)
Definitions and interpretation.
(g) except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:
(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),

The wording used in the firearms act clearly used the word "telescope sights"
Laser sights are not telescope or telescopic sights and do not fall into any
category defined in the firearms act.

When I read this section of the firearms act and particularly this section
my interpretation of it is that this paragraph it to cover telescopic sights
with laser range finding capabilities build into it or telescopic sights with
night vision or IR capabilities built into it.

I own a laser range finder. But a telescopic sight with a laser range finder built in is restricted.

I own night vision equipment. But a telescopic sight with night vision is
restricted.

I own a laser pointer. A telescopic sight with a laser pointer build in is
restricted. ONLY that a laser pointer on a firearm or airsoft on its own that
is not part of a telescopic sight does not fall into the definitions of anything
in the firearms act therefore not restricted.

People are up in arms about if a laser pointer/sight is Legal or not but:
A laser sight is NOT telecope/telescopic but it is a Light beam.

People are perfectly fine with red did scopes but:
A red dot sight is not telecope/telescopic it also uses a Light beam
the difference bing that the light it projected onto the glass of the sight
and not directly at the target itself.

To make a long story short you could say that Laser Sights were perfectly
legal depending on the interpretation of the firearms act.

But with that said this line "without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing" is worrying as it could mean in a court of law the arguement
could swing both ways. I dont wish anyone to have to go to court
to prove either side of the argument I am only offering my opinion
on my understanding of the law from reading the firearms act.

My Cousin is a Solicitor I don't talk to her much but next time I meet
her I am gonna print the fireams act out and discuss with her to see
what her professional opinion would be and what would and would not
hold up in court. (it wont be anytime soon as have not seen her in a few months)

~B

kdouglas

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

KD i am not sure if this is off the topic and if it is feel free to remove it dude but i do have one other closely related issue.

the power of a lot of the current attachable lasers are meant for hollywood like effects (visible beam etc). now i know they all have a beam but my issue would be more related to health and safety. shining a 635nm laser in your back garden for a laugh is one thing, but using it in game is a whole different matter. by and large we always try to limit exposuse which normally means the only visible part is our head. considering some of the later brands of laser are strong enough to damage eyesight, should we not decide, to ban them in game anyways.

dont get me wrong, i love the idea of them as well, but not at the expense of someones eyesight...

a fair point, does anyone know the legal maximum output power of a laser in ireland?

Spitfire666

dont quote me but from what i understand, a key part in the act is COMPONENT part, so a lazer wouldnt be a componant part just as having a set of grips from a pistol wouldnt get you in trouble.

ambro25

Spitfire666 wrote: »

dont quote me but from what i understand, a key part in the act is COMPONENT part, so a lazer wouldnt be a componant part just as having a set of grips from a pistol wouldnt get you in trouble.

By your logic, how does the following -

the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:
(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),

stack up, then?

Me loves discussing greyness

bullets

I totally agree with Spitfire666 here.

For me a Component part is a part of a firearm
where without it the firearm would not function

for the Airsoft sport here in Ireland a Mountable Laser pointer
is not a component part of a fire arm.

Because an airsoft is not a firearm!!!!
and a laser pointer does not form any part of the
mechinism to make it function/operate be it an airsoft or a firearm.

~B

Spitfire666

thats what im not sure about. i think what its saying is that the items mentioned are specificall catagorized as componant parts for the purpose of the act.

kdouglas

bullets: the issue before arose from the fact that the laser can still be bolted onto a real firearm even if it is designed for airsoft use due to the fact that they use the same type of mounts

Spitfire666

but by that logic, so can rail guards, fore grips, stocks etc.......

And in one case i have seen, a silencer.

bullets

kdouglas wrote: »

bullets: the issue before arose from the fact that the laser can still be bolted onto a real firearm even if it is designed for airsoft use due to the fact that they use the same type of mounts

KD at any time feel free to delete anything you deem to be
inappropriate to the airsoft board. I am not trying to cause
any negative waves here.

(I love lasers since I was a kid regardless of what they are stuck to or
for what their purpose is. I am waiting for the day
when I can save up to buy one thats visable in
broad day light. I have ZERO purpose for having one
other than wanting one)


sellotape an ordinary laser pointer that anyone can buy legally
in the pound shop/euro store to an Airsoft without any mounts
at all are you breaking the law or not? yes or no?

stick the same laser pointer in a mount that lets you put
it on an airsoft rail or a rail on a real steel fireram
are you breaking the law or not? yes or no?

I honesty thing nobody can place their hand on their heart
and tell us for sure without a doubt yes or no.
I dont think lawyers/solicitors/barristers can 100& answer those
questions. It probably all falls down to whatever an individual Judge in a court
or law "thinks" due to having no absolute clear wordings in our actual law.

~B

thehomeofDob

bullets wrote: »

(I love lasers since I was a kid regardless of what they are stuck to or
for what their purpose is. I am waiting for the day
when I can save up to buy one thats visable in
broad day light. I have ZERO purpose for having one
other than wanting one)

Like a 75mw green laser? I got one sent from the states, don't know if it went through customs though. Beautiful things alright.

bullets

thehomeofDob wrote: »

Like a 75mw green laser? I got one sent from the states, don't know if it went through customs though. Beautiful things alright.

Yeah a genuine one will burn through a black plastic bag!!!
So it definitively NOT the type of thing for an AEG.

A lot are only lesser powered laser diodes that are suped up to
output more than they can handle and are often sold cheaper.
I keep meaning to buy one but end up spending the money on other
things.

Blue and Yellow lasers are more expensive again and are out of my
price range.

~B

Mark_Sc

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this... but it does say thet it has to be sight/laser/whatever DESIGNED FOR USE WITH A FIREARM. I'd say all of the laser pionters available from shops that specialise in airsoft would never be used on RS or at least aren't designed to... understand what i'm getting at?

conor-mr2

ambro25 wrote: »

the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:
(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),

Are airsoft deemed firearms if they are under 1 joule?

If they are not then surely laser pointers attached to an airsoft item could be deemed legal.

Any ideas here lads?

Mark_Sc

No we've been through this... they're NOT firearms if under 1J!
So anything designed for an airsoft gun(granted it'd have to be leagal in Ireland)

conor-mr2

Mark_Sc wrote: »

No we've been through this... they're NOT firearms if under 1J!
So anything designed for an airsoft gun(granted it'd have to be leagal in Ireland)

I should have added that it was a rhetorical question

My point was that I also believe laser pointers attached to airsoft are not illegal

o1s1n

kdouglas wrote: »

a fair point, does anyone know the legal maximum output power of a laser in ireland?

I've been trying to find this out myself. The astronomy guys I asked use them for star pointing and seem to think up to 5mw is legal. (Although that's what they need for star pointing so er... possibly influencing their ideas) A boards.ie user I asked who was a bit more knowledgeable in the subject said the European legal output level is only 1mw.

Low powered red lasers like these won't permanently damage your eyesight. Either will green lasers up to 5mw. However, shining them in peoples eyes or using them at a skirmish still wouldn't be the safest thing to do.

Above 5mw and they start getting dangerous. 100mw or thereabouts can burn through black tape.

thehomeofDob wrote: »

Like a 75mw green laser? I got one sent from the states, don't know if it went through customs though. Beautiful things alright.

At possibly 75 times the legal limit, that was extremely dodgy. Don't discuss it here.

Mark_Sc

sorry Conor, i'm quite tired and so slow on the pick up...
if you put one of these on you'd be breaking the law
http://www.rsov.com/product_info.php?products_id=386&osCsid=ae21a6fbf140a5dfe52a67320eef4068

Boston

kdouglas wrote: »

a fair point, does anyone know the legal maximum output power of a laser in ireland?

There isn't one, as it depends on context. Guy in the office bought an optical drive there recently which can etch an image into plastic. I don't know the exact power output but it had to be well over 5mW.

conor-mr2

Mark_Sc wrote: »

sorry Conor, i'm quite tired and so slow on the pick up...
if you put one of these on you'd be breaking the law
http://www.rsov.com/product_info.php?products_id=386&osCsid=ae21a6fbf140a5dfe52a67320eef4068

Ah no worries man!! And at 650quid I wont be putting one of them on my airsofters any time soon Im afraid. Pretty neat though!!

o1s1n

Boston wrote: »

There isn't one, as it depends on context. Guy in the office bought an optical drive there recently which can etch an image into plastic. I don't know the exact power output but it had to be well over 5mW.

Well it's all context yes. For all purposes concerned, we're discussing laser pointers. A laser pointer is going to have a different maximum legal output than an optical drive as the latter can't be used to blind someone from across the street.

For all it's worth, here's the wiki entry on European laser pointer power

The output power of a laser pointer is measured in milliwatts (mW). In Europe/UK the legal requirement is that laser pointer output not exceed 1 mW; in USA this output is limited to 5 mW for presentation lasers

I can only assume Ireland falls into that too. Really haven't a clue though.

Boston

Those are requirements on the manufacturer, its another matter as to whether or not its illegal to have a laser pointer with a power rating greater then whats specified for manufacture, I doubt it is.

Gran Hermano

Plenty of info on lasers and safety in airsoft on Arnie's here

Hunter1100

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Plenty of info on lasers and safety in airsoft on Arnie's here

The info on arnie's is a bit basic there are 3 sub groups in the class 3
3A, 3B* and 3B**
3A is safe as long as you don't stare into the laser. Your natural blinking reaction should protect you from accidental viewing. The other two groups require eye protection as far as I know.

NakedDex

I used to do a lot of work with lasers and the power output allowed depends on use.
General purpose lasers (not lazers, that bugs the hell out of me) are less than or equal to 1mW. These are your average laser pointers and presentation remotes. General purpose meaning something you can buy off the shelf, stick a battery in and use immediately.

More powerful ones can be ordered from some places who, as far as I know, are registered as selling them. Limit here is about 5-8mW from what I remember. These are used for certain applications like, as O1s1n said, astronomy. These are termed designators rather than pointers (not totally sure why).

Laser modules can be obtained up to approximately 20mW and are used for a variety of electronic and industrial applications. I've orderd and used several modules in the past from 1mW up to 18mW for various applications from security systems to refractor rigs and boroscopes. They're expensive and need to be given a power supply, control module and some form of pcb or mount.

Beyond 20mW and you're into unsafe powers. Hell, even my 18mW one was something I had to be very careful with as the laser beam itself was quite hot if left unchecked. However, the type of module you find in lightscribe dvd burners and blu-ray drives/burners are very high and (if you know what you're doing) don't take a lot of wizardry to alter and use. I've seen it being done and quite frankly I find it dangerous. Those grades are designed to cut, burn or heat an item very quickly and I have seen laser burns on skin and corneas.

Laser burns on skin by the way, are generally so hot you don't feel it, you smell the skin searing. This is because a high power laser will cauterise the wound as it goes. Hence the invention of laser scalpels in medicine.


Brief rules of thumb with lasers.
1) If you can see the beam, it's too powerful.
2) Don't look, even at an angle, into the diode. Ever.
3) If you must play with them for whatever reason (I discourage it), 5mW is what you should class as your safe threshold. A decent 5mW module will cast a visible dot (not beam) over about 150-200meters. More than enough for anyone, including the military.
4) Green lasers are illegal to buy because their wavelength is easier to damage the cornea with as well as them starting off in power at 5mW. Standard red beams are approx 635nm in wavelength.
5) NEVER put a lens of any sort in front of it.

Lastly, and most importantly.
6) They're not toys, treat them with respect.

o1s1n

Excellent post Nakeddex, thanks. Exactly the information I was looking for.

reaper7

NakedDex wrote: »

I used to do a lot of work with lasers and the power output allowed depends on use.
General purpose lasers (not lazers, that bugs the hell out of me) are less than or equal to 1mW. These are your average laser pointers and presentation remotes. General purpose meaning something you can buy off the shelf, stick a battery in and use immediately.

More powerful ones can be ordered from some places who, as far as I know, are registered as selling them. Limit here is about 5-8mW from what I remember. These are used for certain applications like, as O1s1n said, astronomy. These are termed designators rather than pointers (not totally sure why).

Laser modules can be obtained up to approximately 20mW and are used for a variety of electronic and industrial applications. I've orderd and used several modules in the past from 1mW up to 18mW for various applications from security systems to refractor rigs and boroscopes. They're expensive and need to be given a power supply, control module and some form of pcb or mount.

Beyond 20mW and you're into unsafe powers. Hell, even my 18mW one was something I had to be very careful with as the laser beam itself was quite hot if left unchecked. However, the type of module you find in lightscribe dvd burners and blu-ray drives/burners are very high and (if you know what you're doing) don't take a lot of wizardry to alter and use. I've seen it being done and quite frankly I find it dangerous. Those grades are designed to cut, burn or heat an item very quickly and I have seen laser burns on skin and corneas.

Laser burns on skin by the way, are generally so hot you don't feel it, you smell the skin searing. This is because a high power laser will cauterise the wound as it goes. Hence the invention of laser scalpels in medicine.


Brief rules of thumb with lasers.
1) If you can see the beam, it's too powerful.
2) Don't look, even at an angle, into the diode. Ever.
3) If you must play with them for whatever reason (I discourage it), 5mW is what you should class as your safe threshold. A decent 5mW module will cast a visible dot (not beam) over about 150-200meters. More than enough for anyone, including the military.
4) Green lasers are illegal to buy because their wavelength is easier to damage the cornea with as well as them starting off in power at 5mW. Standard red beams are approx 635nm in wavelength.
5) NEVER put a lens of any sort in front of it.

Lastly, and most importantly.
6) They're not toys, treat them with respect.

Thanks for that NakedDex as I was just about to order a green laser from RSOV . Better change it to a red one.

ED E

Now thats the kind of person thats usefull to have around. Good Boy ND:p

thehomeofDob

+1 to Nakeddex. I didn't know what the law stated with regards to the 75mw green laser I have now, but to anyone out there, from experience, they are not to be toyed with. Great great fun, absolutely a blast to use. However, I've a tiny burn near the centre of my left retina due to a half second exposure - reflected off a mirror approx 3ft away, so 6ft total distance. Had more money than sense when I bought it.

Back on topic, I've used 5mw green lasers - but even then, using them in a skirmish would be disorentating if it was shone in someones eye. No permanent damage, as I've had it happen myself, but it does leave you with those colour specs you get from looking at a lightbulb. They'd be great for an airsoft video/film, but too much hassle for a skirmish as you'd need to high a power too see in the daylight outside.

NakedDex

Quick update, I checked up on the laser pointer versus laser designator naming difference. Laser pointers are the <1mW units where as the laser designators are the 1.001mW to 5mW units. The naming difference denotes the high power and drastically extended range.
Note if you purchase a laser module, this is not the case. Pointers/Designators are names given only to non-oem, finished and enclosed products.