Kingscourt railway to be disconnected

Navan Junction

The Navan Kingscourt line is to be permanently disconnected this week.

The line has already been severed to allow removal of the junction at Tara Mines.

http://www.meathontrack.com/kingscourtrailway.html

dmeehan

The article mentioned this

The Kingscourt rail link which was recently disconnected from the national rail network is also to see its junction removed as part of the upgrade of the Navan-Drogheda line.

What is the upgrade it refers to. Are they upgrading the Navan-Drogheda line for passenger servces?

trellheim

Wasn't that the junction when as soon as the last train had run they were "In like flint" pulling up the junction. this was one of the last heavy freight flows in Ireland and it was very strange , as if it was a keystone for something else. IE never answered questions on that.

Ham'nd'egger

trellheim wrote: »

Wasn't that the junction when as soon as the last train had run they were "In like flint" pulling up the junction. this was one of the last heavy freight flows in Ireland and it was very strange , as if it was a keystone for something else. IE never answered questions on that.

A disused junction will be disconnected for safety reason, Trell; it is to ensure that a train cannot enter the closed section of line. There has been some track upgrading on the Navan branch over the last year so it follows that this point would be removed once the track renewal got as far as the junction.

The closure of the line occured in 30th October 2001. The poor conditions of the line required Irish Rail to invest some £3 million to bring it up to a decent standard and wanted a 25% increase in rates from Gypsum Industrys to cover, no State aid being made available for same. Train crews also had to open and shut gates en route so speeds on the line were poor as well. IE honoured the contract hauled the Gypsum from the quarry via their road haulage division for some time afterwards; at this stage though, the loadings of gypsum had eased as the plant was consuming much of it on site so less wagons were going out on the branch.

The Foynes junction was also supposed to be removed this week but I never heard if it actually happened.

KC61

Foynes was disconnected on the weekend of the 3rd/4th November.

loyatemu

big deal - they're only removing some points, if these lines were ever to be re-opened they would need complete renewal anyway.

BrianD

The line seems to be unusable in any case. I think the real issue is what steps are taken to ensure that the route is kept in public ownership and that the "permanent way" can be reinstated in the future if needs be.

The idea of a walkway or linear park on the route is not a bad one as it keeps the land in public use and means that in 10 years it won't be "abandoned".

Ham'nd'egger

BrianD wrote: »

The line seems to be unusable in any case. I think the real issue is what steps are taken to ensure that the route is kept in public ownership and that the "permanent way" can be reinstated in the future if needs be.

The idea of a walkway or linear park on the route is not a bad one as it keeps the land in public use and means that in 10 years it won't be "abandoned".

The line is very unlikely to be served with an abandonment order, Brian. The action of an order is very rarely used by CIE on closed lines as it effectively accedes loss of both the use of the line and the ownership, thus making any re-opening impossible as distinct from vaugely possible. AFAIK, the line to be served with an railway abandonment order was the Conty Donegal narrow gauge in the early 1983.

BrianD

I understand what you are saying but how do we prevent local encroachment on the line. There was a considerable amount of money buying back garden sheds on the LUAS Green line. Was the Harcourt line officialy abandoned?

trellheim

Where was Foynes disconnected, at the Limerick Signalbox ?

KC61

trellheim wrote: »

Where was Foynes disconnected, at the Limerick Signalbox ?

At Limerick Check Cabin.

loyatemu

BrianD wrote: »

I understand what you are saying but how do we prevent local encroachment on the line. There was a considerable amount of money buying back garden sheds on the LUAS Green line. Was the Harcourt line officialy abandoned?

I'm pretty sure it was. Even if a line isn't abandoned doesn't adverse possession law apply?

Victor

BrianD wrote: »

I understand what you are saying but how do we prevent local encroachment on the line. There was a considerable amount of money buying back garden sheds on the LUAS Green line. Was the Harcourt line officialy abandoned?

Parts of it were sold off, but it was impractical to sell it off completely as there were telephones lines, etc. running along it. A gas main was later fitted.

dlambirl

i cant understand why the kingscourt line is being disconnected because surely in a couple of years they will want to rebuild it to start a regular train service which is desperately needed with the state of the kinscourt - navan - dublin road

spacetweek

dlambirl wrote: »

i cant understand why the kingscourt line is being disconnected because surely in a couple of years they will want to rebuild it to start a regular train service which is desperately needed with the state of the kinscourt - navan - dublin road

Highly unlikely, since it's a tiny town and the railway was only ever justified by the freight opportunities. The town itself certainly doesn't justify a railway service.

Navan Junction

loyatemu wrote: »

big deal - they're only removing some points, if these lines were ever to be re-opened they would need complete renewal anyway.

spacetweek wrote: »

the railway was only ever justified by the freight opportunities.

They kind of tried timber on it but not very hard by the sounds of it. It could still be in use with shared costs between Coilte and Gypsum if they wanted.

Which combined with Tara (the life of the mine is being extended beyond 10 years btw to possible 20) would have given three freight flows through Navan and would have helped add to the case for proper rail provision to the town.

Navan Drogheda is already the busiest freight line in the country - the extra flows from the Kingscourt line could have helped to seeing more than just rocks commuted to Dublin several times a day from central Meath.

Meath loses by this.

Ham'nd'egger

Navan Junction wrote: »

They kind of tried timber on it but not very hard by the sounds of it. It could still be in use with shared costs between Coilte and Gypsum if they wanted.

Which combined with Tara (the life of the mine is being extended beyond 10 years btw to possible 20) would have given three freight flows through Navan and would have helped add to the case for proper rail provision to the town.

Navan Drogheda is already the busiest freight line in the country - the extra flows from the Kingscourt line could have helped to seeing more than just rocks commuted to Dublin several times a day from central Meath.

Timber was tried once from Kingscourt. The train that ran to the station had to be shunted and split so many times to load (The train spent a full day in the station shunting) that it was impractical to run again without either relaying and extending the yard and a loading bay (Costing millions and closing the branch while it is done) or employing 2 train crews to allow for two shifts to get to and from Dublin, something that wasn't possible at all. The traffic intended for the line ran from Sligo instead.

Navan Junction

But it's ok to do similar elsewhere in the country?

Hamndegger

Hamndegger wrote: »

The line is very unlikely to be served with an abandonment order, Brian. The action of an order is very rarely used by CIE on closed lines as it effectively accedes loss of both the use of the line and the ownership, thus making any re-opening impossible as distinct from vaugely possible. AFAIK, the line to be served with an railway abandonment order was the Conty Donegal narrow gauge in the early 1983.

The Limerick to Tralee line was abandoned exactly 20 years ago in November 1987. The last revenue-earning traffic to go over the line was in 1978 so they didn't even wait for the "10 year clause" to lapse. IÉ still have responsibility for the land though, some of the overbridges now have the new bridge number signs present, an example being between Rathkeale and Ardagh.

I used to live near the line and it always baffled me why it was abandoned, surely it could have been used as a better route from Dublin to Tralee than having to go via Mallow.

Ham'nd'egger

Karsini wrote: »

The Limerick to Tralee line was abandoned exactly 20 years ago in November 1987. The last revenue-earning traffic to go over the line was in 1978 so they didn't even wait for the "10 year clause" to lapse. IÉ still have responsibility for the land though, some of the overbridges now have the new bridge number signs present, an example being between Rathkeale and Ardagh.

I used to live near the line and it always baffled me why it was abandoned, surely it could have been used as a better route from Dublin to Tralee than having to go via Mallow.

Sorry, I totally forgot about the "North Kerry" route (Blush) though it as you say is still mainly in situ bar a shopping centre in Tralee getting in the way :mad:.

The line from Limerick to Tralee didn't have the traffic on it that the Tralee carried; Castleisland, Kerry Group and beet, kegs and liners worked freight on the line as well as reasonable passengers who could link handier via Dublin and Cork whereas the North Kerry was a light rail build (Similar to Tuam-Colooney) who had little freight and lower passenger numbers. Most of it's freight was loose coupled workings that ran to Limerick and was on borrowed time as vacumn braked freight and the loss of live cattle traffic came to.

Hamndegger

Hamndegger wrote: »

the North Kerry was a light rail build (Similar to Tuam-Colooney)

Could you elaborate on that? I've heard it mentioned but don't know exactly what it means. I do know there's a lot of level crossings on the Burma Road and by the look of things the North Kerry was no different, at least three in my area alone.

GerardKeating

Karsini wrote: »

I used to live near the line and it always baffled me why it was abandoned, surely it could have been used as a better route from Dublin to Tralee than having to go via Mallow.

The Tralee-Mallow route serves Kilkenny, whereas the North Kerry lines would not, so if there were only to retain one route to Tralee, this was the obvious choice.

Ham'nd'egger

Karsini wrote: »

Could you elaborate on that? I've heard it mentioned but don't know exactly what it means. I do know there's a lot of level crossings on the Burma Road and by the look of things the North Kerry was no different, at least three in my area alone.

Basically, in relation to lines like the "North Kerry", "light rail" means that it was built on the cheap; the weight per foot of the rail being specified as being less than the so called mainline routes.

As these lines were often built in sparse areas and to very tight budget, more level crossings, less bridges and cuttings/embankments, sharper curves and other cost cutting exercises were common in relation to line engineering, similar to narrow gauge lines but built with the standard gauge of five foot three. Other branches would have been built as "light rail" include the Ballinrobe, Killala and Clifden branches; I believe the Wexford-New Ross-Waterford would come under this heading.

paulm17781

Karsini wrote: »

Could you elaborate on that? I've heard it mentioned but don't know exactly what it means. I do know there's a lot of level crossings on the Burma Road and by the look of things the North Kerry was no different, at least three in my area alone.

It means it was a tram line (or similar) as opposed to a heavy rail (typical train) line.

Victor

Travelling via Mallow wouls also mean greater use of safer mainline, double track with better signalling.