Alternatives to 2+2

luckylucky

I know a lot of you will look at 2+2 and other poker forums. I think boards poker community is a good one with a good vibe, I know there has been some niggly comments but by and large it's largely banter here. 2+2 on the other hand though there are some quality posters, there seem to be a glut of people who just make right ar$eh0le replies basically just for the sake of it. :mad:

Is there any other large global poker forum like 2+2 but with less prats that measure their clever/kewl factor by how big an ar$eh0le they can be?

Or is it just the case with any large forum (probably particularly poker) that you just have to put up with these muppets?

phantom_lord

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/

It has a good vibe, plus loads of good posters who play midstakes+ like gabe, isf, and sauce.

DeadParrot

I have a vent....
I am sick to fcuking death of people bring 2+2 speak into their vernacular.
SHIP IT! is the most annoying thing in a casino/poker table. I was in CHL's one night and EVERY turn of the roulette wheel and SHIP IT! was sneered each and every time, from more than one person at a time. I've been at tournaments where every hand is SHIP IT!, again from about 4 players per table. LOL [randomstatment]aments I dont really mind online, but come on, it just sounds retarded in 'real' life.

Maybe its just me, but the 'Fist Pump', 'Ship It', slamming table mentality of a lot of poker players just make them seem childish. Happy you won a pot? Fine, great, speak you mind rather than relying on the most popular méme in poker.....Conduct yourself with a bit of class and dignity, people will generally respect you more. You are also not exactly scaring the fishies, but freaking them out a little listening to the weird lexicons.

I'll compose my thoughts and write a proper post on this when I'm not up to my tits in work

Mr.Plough

ship it holla

DeadParrot

oh yeah
holla, balla etc.....

How do you think you are Gwen Stefani??

luckylucky

phantom_lord wrote: »

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/

It has a good vibe, plus loads of good posters who play midstakes+ like gabe, isf, and sauce.

Cheers PL. I've seen some ftr stuff before of course but never looked at the actual forum there. I'll give it a try now though.

Mellor

DeadParrot wrote: »

I have a vent....
I am sick to fcuking death of people bring 2+2 speak into their vernacular.
SHIP IT! is the most annoying thing in a casino/poker table. I was in CHL's one night and EVERY turn of the roulette wheel and SHIP IT! was sneered each and every time, from more than one person at a time. I've been at tournaments where every hand is SHIP IT!, again from about 4 players per table. LOL [randomstatment]aments I dont really mind online, but come on, it just sounds retarded in 'real' life.

Maybe its just me, but the 'Fist Pump', 'Ship It', slamming table mentality of a lot of poker players just make them seem childish. Happy you won a pot? Fine, great, speak you mind rather than relying on the most popular méme in poker.....Conduct yourself with a bit of class and dignity, people will generally respect you more. You are also not exactly scaring the fishies, but freaking them out a little listening to the weird lexicons.

I'll compose my thoughts and write a proper post on this when I'm not up to my tits in work

lol rantaments

bohsman

Shipit has nothing to do with 2+2

robinlacey

i agree that there can be a lot of stupid posters on twoplustwo,and there can be a nasty vibe (the misogony in NVG in particular bothers me) but there is no getting around the fact that it is by far the most comprehensive forum,with by far the best posters and a huge amount of useful information. also,once you learn to ignore the idiots there there are a lot of posters who are friendly and helpful.

robinlacey

DeadParrot wrote: »

oh yeah
holla, balla etc.....

How do you think you are Gwen Stefani??

if you've only heard those words in gwen stefani songs you need to take a long hard look at your life!

Theresalwaysone

robinlacey wrote: »

if you've only heard those words in gwen stefani songs you need to take a long hard look at your life!

lol robinlaceyhasasenseofhumouraments

DP you cranky git (not personal abuse but friendly banter)

You want us to all sit quietly and smoke our cigars and talk about the credit crunch and how it is going to affect the price of the dollar?

NO! Live poker is all about the banter and what makes the banter so important is the fact that it is so SLOW. It would tilt Mother Theresa.

If you want your quiet classy game play online, turn off the chat and listen to Beethoven.

(all of the above to be taken in a light tone, I do not mean to be offensive)

RoundTower

if you care about people having a nice attitude and never saying "ship it" there are lots of nice poker forums out there, you could start by googling "poker". If you are more concerned about getting good strategy advice you are more limited in your options, you have to read 2+2.

cooker3

[x] Annoyed by posters on 2+2
[x] Wants to use a more friendly site
[x] I am taking the piss

Lafortezza

14th!


imo

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Mr.Plough

RoundTower wrote: »

you could start by googling "poker".

lol

DeVore

I love banter at a live table... "In yer face, shiiiiiiiiiiip it!!!" is not banter. Its not even amusing. I've heard some of the funniest Dublin wit on tables and it was great, even when it was aimed at me. (The late great Pat Crowe was an absolute c**t for it )

Whats mentioned above is not even a poor substitute, its just retarded. If you can't contain your emotions for even a single win, then you have a serious flaw in your game.

DeV.

DeVore

To address the OP... it is not limited to poker unfortunately. All internet forums have to contend with the Muppet Factor.

I love Penny Arcade for example (www.penny-arcade.com) and Gabe even has a t-shirt for it...

Its partly the reason why we have a civility rule here. I think people can express a contrary opinion perfectly well without being obnoxious and if you can't ... you need to hush, because the adults are talking now.

DeV.

ianmc38

god i hate the random(aments) crap and i hate the [] this thread is gay stuff as well.

Dont mind ship it holla as i think its quite funny.

luckylucky

RoundTower wrote: »

if you care about people having a nice attitude and never saying "ship it" there are lots of nice poker forums out there, you could start by googling "poker". If you are more concerned about getting good strategy advice you are more limited in your options, you have to read 2+2.

yeah but you always struck me as the closest thing to a 2+2er poster that we have on boards here, so you would say that... banter of course

Lafortezza

[x]ianmc38aments



imo

Daithio

robinlacey wrote: »

i agree that there can be a lot of stupid posters on twoplustwo,and there can be a nasty vibe (the misogony in NVG in particular bothers me) but there is no getting around the fact that it is by far the most comprehensive forum,with by far the best posters and a huge amount of useful information. also,once you learn to ignore the idiots there there are a lot of posters who are friendly and helpful.

I nearly puked when I saw the thread about Annette_15 doing well in the EPT. I think by the 2nd comment it had turned into a discussion about her looks. The girl is 19 years old FFS! I mean she probably reads the forums and it REALLY pissed me off thinking of a 19 yo girl having to put up with that sort of crap from losers whos' only terms of reference for talking about girls is a number out of ten. I decided I was never reading 2p2 again after that thread, it's full of absolute cnuts.

luckylucky

Daithio wrote: »

I nearly puked when I saw the thread about Annette_15 doing well in the EPT. I think by the 2nd comment it had turned into a discussion about her looks. The girl is 19 years old FFS! I mean she probably reads the forums and it REALLY pissed me off thinking of a 19 yo girl having to put up with that sort of crap from losers whos' only terms of reference for talking about girls is a number out of ten. I decided I was never reading 2p2 again after that thread, it's full of absolute cnuts.

I think the thread on here about her had a fairly similar vibe. I didn't get involved in that one, kinda was thinking am I just getting too old or something but found it bad too that it degen'd into a post about her looks.

I agree with the comments that 2+2 is hard to ignore being the biggest poker forum around, but some of the replies make it very off putting.

Daithio

luckylucky wrote: »

I think the thread on here about her had a fairly similar vibe. I didn't get involved in that one, kinda was thinking am I just getting too old or something but found it bad too that it degen'd into a post about her looks.

I agree with the comments that 2+2 is hard to ignore being the biggest poker forum around, but some of the replies make it very off putting.

Yeah I remember the one on here too. That was a bit out order, but the one on two plus two was really sick. The comments were really mysoginsitc, basically just pure hate. The one here wasn't nearly as bad.

DeadParrot

robinlacey wrote: »

if you've only heard those words in gwen stefani songs you need to take a long hard look at your life!

I think if balla and holla are in your day to day use of the english language its not me who needs some introspective viewing


And im not cranky, I feel the average boards poker player is generally intelligent, there's no need for relying on tiresome sayings

DeVore

A lot of it is the culture engendered in a forum, often from the start. If the muppets become predominant, then people like Daithio and LuckyLucky quietly leave. If the forum takes a strong line and doesnt tolerate crap then the muppets sulk off (usually crying censorship or that everyone is a boring cnut) and the adults take over. Once that happens then immature responses arent tolerated (and on Boards particularly, get mocked to high heaven )

This is why we have a civility rule on Boards and also why we pay close attention to new forums for a while, to ensure they start off in the right direction.

DeV.

RoundTower

luckylucky wrote: »

yeah but you always struck me as the closest thing to a 2+2er poster that we have on boards here, so you would say that... banter of course

well I do post a lot on 2+2, but mostly in the strategy forums. I hardly ever post hands here now. I'm always a bit amused when the likes of DeV bash 2+2 as being "immature" and "stupid" based no doubt on reading the off content forums. If you post crap in the strategy forums you might get mocked or abused, if you post good questions you get 90% serious answers in my experience.

DeVore

Did you miss the part where I said "To address the OP... it is not limited to poker unfortunately. All internet forums have to contend with the Muppet Factor."

My comments have been about managing forums of large numbers of people in general rather the 2+2 specifically. I do read the strategy forums there (and here) and I pick and choose the signal from the noise.

"the likes of DeV".... You are a real charmer.

DeV.

luckylucky

RoundTower wrote: »

well I do post a lot on 2+2, but mostly in the strategy forums. I hardly ever post hands here now. I'm always a bit amused when the likes of DeV bash 2+2 as being "immature" and "stupid" based no doubt on reading the off content forums. If you post crap in the strategy forums you might get mocked or abused, if you post good questions you get 90% serious answers in my experience.

Yeah but you are a recognised poster there. I am an infrequent poster there and have posed reasonable questions(no doubt not up to RT's standards :rolleyes:) imo and received some complete f'tard answers on a good few occasions. Here's a recent example.... this is by no means the worst, in fact I got some helpful information from this post, so in a way it's a good example of both the good and the bad that is 2 +2

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=singletable&Number=12846308&Searchpage=1&Main=12832175&Words=+baztalkspoker&topic=&Search=true#Post12846308

DeVore wrote: »

A lot of it is the culture engendered in a forum, often from the start. If the muppets become predominant, then people like Daithio and LuckyLucky quietly leave. If the forum takes a strong line and doesnt tolerate crap then the muppets sulk off (usually crying censorship or that everyone is a boring cnut) and the adults take over. Once that happens then immature responses arent tolerated (and on Boards particularly, get mocked to high heaven )

This is why we have a civility rule on Boards and also why we pay close attention to new forums for a while, to ensure they start off in the right direction.

DeV.

I was actually thinking this too, I reckon inititally 2+2 were just more interested in bringing in poker players and potential ones to their site and did not keep control of their forum from day one, at least not enough control of etiquette.

Chucky the tree

I nver understand why anyone reads NVG or the BBV forum on 2+2, its full of retards. The start forums are the only ones i read. I'll venture into the internet gambling section every so often aswell but everything else i pretty much avoid like syphilis.

GrangeUtd

tl;dr

robinlacey

luckylucky wrote: »

I think the thread on here about her had a fairly similar vibe. I didn't get involved in that one, kinda was thinking am I just getting too old or something but found it bad too that it degen'd into a post about her looks.

I agree with the comments that 2+2 is hard to ignore being the biggest poker forum around, but some of the replies make it very off putting.

yeah i didn't really want to say it but i thought the thread here was poor form too,although not as bad as on twoplustwo.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

hotspur

I really enjoy NVG on 2+2, in fact it's the only section I read anymore. Obviously most posts are worthless (even with pics) but they tend to be short pithy worthless ones. What I enjoy about it is watching the rapid adoption and evolution of humorous neologisms and running gags. It really is a great example of the propagation of memes.

I also think that probably more intelligent young people contribute to that forum than any other one I've read. Yes they are surrounded by a big fat protective layer of muppetry for whom misogyny is the height of lolz, but it's still enjoyable to me.

robinlacey

yeah thats pretty much my thoughs on NVG as well,i do read it and there are some really good posters and interesting threads despite a very poor signal to noise ratio

cardshark202

luckylucky wrote: »

Yeah but you are a recognised poster there. I am an infrequent poster there and have posed reasonable questions(no doubt not up to RT's standards :rolleyes:) imo and received some complete f'tard answers on a good few occasions. Here's a recent example.... this is by no means the worst, in fact I got some helpful information from this post, so in a way it's a good example of both the good and the bad that is 2 +2

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=singletable&Number=12846308&Searchpage=1&Main=12832175&Words=+baztalkspoker&topic=&Search=true#Post12846308




I was actually thinking this too, I reckon inititally 2+2 were just more interested in bringing in poker players and potential ones to their site and did not keep control of their forum from day one, at least not enough control of etiquette.

Eh I read that thread just there and I saw the one you posted in MSNL too. In fairness, I don't see what your problem is. You got the answers you wanted pretty promptly, some people posted a few funny responses. Standard imo. To be honest, the better your rep on any forum, the more likely you are to get good responses. Again standard. Also no-one is forcing anyone to read bbv/nvg or whatever. Just read the strategy forums. Its still the best resource available to any poker player so looking for alternatives it kinda stupid imo.

luckylucky

cardshark202 wrote: »

Eh I read that thread just there and I saw the one you posted in MSNL too. In fairness, I don't see what your problem is. You got the answers you wanted pretty promptly, some people posted a few funny responses. Standard imo. To be honest, the better your rep on any forum, the more likely you are to get good responses. Again standard. Also no-one is forcing anyone to read bbv/nvg or whatever. Just read the strategy forums. Its still the best resource available to any poker player so looking for alternatives it kinda stupid imo.

Well you would agree with Roundtower anyway. I'm not even part of the Irish Poker scene and even I've heard you two are joined at the hip .

Anyway that post was relatively mild, so it didn't really highlight the worst examples - one of the replies I got in the omaha forum was basically i hope you drive off the edge of a cliff just because I dared to even mention the word shortstacking :rolleyes:, Anyway that last post just wound me uop the wrong way so it was kinda the straw that broke the camels back that just made me see what other's here think of 2+2 and the possible alternatives.

Also maybe it's just a question of humour, the responses that you termed funny, I would best describe as juvenile but then then again maybe it's just an age thing, at 36 I'm one of the older posters .

Obviously the better your rep the better your responses will be, I realise that. Even when I joined here first I got a sort of who da fcuk is this guy reaction from a few people. Not saying I got a rep here now but being a regular I get less negativity that I got before. Still I think 2+2 in particular is awash with muppets, I'd much prefer if they weren't there but still I know it's hard to ignore for the minority top notch posters there. I'm going to check out flopturnriver's forum anyway, not much harm in that.

cardshark202

I think you probably just need to lighten up a bit. Every forum is full of muppets.

luckylucky

cardshark202 wrote: »

I think you probably just need to lighten up a bit. Every forum is full of muppets.

Yeah I should just leave it go over my head, most times I do, every now and then though the muppets tilt me.

RoundTower

luckylucky wrote: »

Yeah but you are a recognised poster there. I am an infrequent poster there and have posed reasonable questions(no doubt not up to RT's standards :rolleyes:) imo and received some complete f'tard answers on a good few occasions. Here's a recent example.... this is by no means the worst, in fact I got some helpful information from this post, so in a way it's a good example of both the good and the bad that is 2 +2

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=singletable&Number=12846308&Searchpage=1&Main=12832175&Words=+baztalkspoker&topic=&Search=true#Post12846308

well I can't always have been a "recognised poster" maybe I was just lucky enough to get off on the right foot.

As for your thread I don't see much wrong with it. Any time you could find your answer in the FAQ or simply on google (the first result on google for "standard deviation" in this case) you can expect some people not to take it seriously. And you got some good answers fairly promptly.

luckylucky

RoundTower wrote: »

well I can't always have been a "recognised poster" maybe I was just lucky enough to get off on the right foot.

As for your thread I don't see much wrong with it. Any time you could find your answer in the FAQ or simply on google (the first result on google for "standard deviation" in this case) you can expect some people not to take it seriously. And you got some good answers fairly promptly.

Are you purposely trying to be misleading? I didn't ask what standard deviation was , so not sure where you get that from. I asked about risk of ruin as applied to sngs which I did google and didn't find the answer I was looking for. I guess if I had sat back and thought about it I could have just substituted sng data into the normal risk of ruin formula. I also didn't see this covered in the FAQ which I did look through btw, all I found in the FAQ was a recommendation for a minimum of 100 buy-ins for a full time player, whereas I was looking for a mathematical formula, but perhaps I missed it I'm not a fr1ggin robot.

I also mentioned here that indeed I got some good answers, I'm not saying every 2 + 2 poster is a muppet but I got plenty of muppet answers too. Well at least they were muppet answers imo, others the likes of yourself find them amusing so maybe 2 + 2 just suited you from early days. Congrats. :rolleyes:

RoundTower

Are you purposely trying to be misleading? I didn't ask what standard deviation was , so not sure where you get that from.

well your original question was

I wish to work out my ROR percentages for sngs but i need to know how to figure my standard deviation for sngs. Anyone know how to derive this?

so I would forgive the dozen or so people who thought you needed to find out how to figure out your standard deviation for SNGs, which is what you can find in the first result on google, and in even more simple terms on the second result.

luckylucky

RoundTower wrote: »

well your original question was

so I would forgive the dozen or so people who thought you needed to find out how to figure out your standard deviation for SNGs, which is what you can find in the first result on google, and in even more simple terms on the second result.

ok fair point. Your annoyingly right once again. I think the thing at the time I made that post I thought standard deviation for sngs might be calculated somewhat differently due to there always being a minimum loss, but I guess not. That's why I never even considered searching for 'standard deviation' on it's own.

Anyway that particular thread wasn't particularly caustic or anything, just some juvenile replies. It was just the most recent example I was involved in. I think you could look at many threads on 2 + 2 and see a plethora of muppets filling up space with their a-hole comments.

'Now go fall off a cliff' quoted from 2 + 2

phantom_lord

A 2+2er wrote:

I hope you family is going on vacation right now and their plane crashes

.

Rb

Avoid the off topic forums and you'll avoid 90% of the retards on the site, they seem to gather there and not post much outside of there.


It is disappointing to see some of the "cool" crap from 2+2 being dragged over here though, but hopefully it won't last.

ianmc38

hotspur wrote: »

I really enjoy NVG on 2+2, in fact it's the only section I read anymore. Obviously most posts are worthless (even with pics) but they tend to be short pithy worthless ones. What I enjoy about it is watching the rapid adoption and evolution of humorous neologisms and running gags. It really is a great example of the propagation of memes.

I also think that probably more intelligent young people contribute to that forum than any other one I've read. Yes they are surrounded by a big fat protective layer of muppetry for whom misogyny is the height of lolz, but it's still enjoyable to me.

Agreed. There are loads of deadly posts in NVG. The 1st half of the recent gobboboy had me close to tears on several occasions. The picture of Phil Ivey in that thread was priceless.

cooker3

ianmc38 wrote: »

Agreed. There are loads of deadly posts in NVG. The 1st half of the recent gobboboy had me close to tears on several occasions. The picture of Phil Ivey in that thread was priceless.

I agree, the pics posted in the fgators thread a few weeks were utter gold.