Crucifixes in hospitals

newireland

Hello christians,

I am a recent muslim convert and I have one request, and seeing as ireland is a secular nation now perhaps it could be granted, I want to see the angelus finished as it is insulting

PDN

newireland wrote: »

Hello christians,

I am a recent muslim convert and I have one request, and seeing as ireland is a secular nation now perhaps it could be granted, I want to see the angelus finished as it is insulting

Do you want to talk about the angelus or about crucifixes in hospitals?

MrJoeSoap

newireland wrote: »

Hello christians,

I am a recent muslim convert and I have one request, and seeing as ireland is a secular nation now perhaps it could be granted, I want to see the angelus finished as it is insulting

How is the angelus insulting?

XJR

newireland wrote: »

I want to see the angelus finished as it is insulting

Why do you see it insulting? I was in the middle east there was a call to prayer several times a day - I didin't find it insulting just a part of the daily life of the country I was visiting.

Having said that I don't think that the Angelus has a place on our national airwaves in this day and age.

mikemac

I wouldn't go to a Muslim country and call their practices insulting and demand they be changed. (well, maybe stoning under sharia law)

You will soon get your wish OP.
You are new to Ireland so you won't remember this well known incident almost two years ago. Widely reported in the press

"Christmas cheer at the country's biggest hospital has been replaced by outrage over a decision to remove a festive crib due to fears of offending non-Christians. No sooner had the crib at St James's Hospital in Dublin been erected than it became the latest victim of political correctness. Hospital bosses ordered its removal yesterday, leaving many staff very angry. The crib, which was donated to the hospital by a patient, was assembled in the hospital concourse in the centre of the huge hospital development".

Fanny Cradock

Troll!

I bet this is the SAME guy back for more. Go away - stop taunting the Christians and Muslims.

XJR

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Troll

A little harsh don't you think ?

I don't agree with OP but rational discussion and all that . . .

Fanny Cradock

XJR wrote: »

A little harsh don't you think ?

I don't agree with OP but rational discussion and all that . . .

I have no problems with rational discussion. However, reading his other 2 posts, one would doubt he is interested in a friendly chat.

humanji

Well she has 3 posts, 2 spouting about the lack of acceptance of Islam, and one saying how she's rubbish at practicing it. Says troll or twit to me.

Fanny Cradock

I vote 'both'.

newireland

I seem to have caused a bit of a stir, it is not that i abhor your calling to faith it is merely an observation from without your belief. In Saudi, where my husband is from, everyone is welcome to practice their beliefs wholly in the name of their faith, however your overbearing broadcasting of the angelus strikes me as being non secular

humanji

It's hardly overbearing. You only notice it if you're looking out for it. And if you're not just posting to troll, then I apologise.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Perhaps it's time to invest in remote? I have no interest in the angelus myself, and with one swiftp movement of my thumb, it bothers me not.

wes

I don't know if the OP is trolling or not, but its silly to call the Angelus insulting and the whole thing about crucifixes, is ridiculous. This is the culture here and this is the way things are done. Its hardly insulting.

mikemac

Definite troll.
You are simply going around different forums(is forums the correct plural?) and winding people up.

newireland

I find all this very insulting, how dare you question my faith, perhaps i was weak during ramadan but what irish can denounce my faith, indulging in farcical beer binges every weekend!!!

MrJoeSoap

newireland wrote: »

I find all this very insulting, how dare you question my faith, perhaps i was weak during ramadan but what irish can denounce my faith, indulging in farcical beer binges every weekend!!!

Who is questioning your faith?

There is nothing farcical about beer, now you are questioning my beliefs!

6th

Couldnt get an irish husband no?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

newireland wrote: »

I find all this very insulting, how dare you question my faith, perhaps i was weak during ramadan but what irish can denounce my faith, indulging in farcical beer binges every weekend!!!

lol...i don't think allah would be too happy, you didn't capitalise the R in ramadan

wes

newireland wrote: »

I seem to have caused a bit of a stir, it is not that i abhor your calling to faith it is merely an observation from without your belief. In Saudi, where my husband is from, everyone is welcome to practice their beliefs wholly in the name of their faith, however your overbearing broadcasting of the angelus strikes me as being non secular

Your joking? Saudi Arabia does not allow any public expression of a faith that is not Islam. They can't even build Churches for something like a Million migrant workers who are Christian. Plenty of other Muslim countries have Churches and have no issues with them. I would hardly use Saudi Arabia as a comparison to Ireland, for we actually get to vote, and our government aren't robbing the nations natural resources for there own benefit. We, Muslims are allowed to build mosques in Ireland and won't be arrested for any outward display of our faith.

newireland

Dear irish people, I am merely asking for a reform of an old tired establishment of Ireland, perhaps it was too soon too ask this of you, I am sorry

mikemac

wes wrote: »

....and our government gives away the nations natural resources for multinational corporations benefit.

Fixed that for you

MrJoeSoap

newireland wrote: »

Dear irish people, I am merely asking for a reform of an old tired establishment of Ireland, perhaps it was too soon too ask this of you, I am sorry

"Merely" asking for a reform of establishment. Sure, would you like a new system of government with that? Perhaps we should drive on the right-hand side...

I'm not Christian but the Angelus doesn't bother or offend me. Nor do crosses. If its what some people want then good luck to them.

XJR

newireland wrote: »

I seem to have caused a bit of a stir, it is not that i abhor your calling to faith it is merely an observation from without your belief. In Saudi, where my husband is from, everyone is welcome to practice their beliefs wholly in the name of their faith, however your overbearing broadcasting of the angelus strikes me as being non secular

To suggest that the Angelus is overbearing is patent nonsense. I spent time in the Middle East (as already stated) and there there was a call to prayer braodcast from the minnerts across the city. Perhaps if the Angelus was done in a similar fashion five time a day it would be overbearing.

Perhaps if we made everyone of every religion binge drink at the weekend that would be overbearing. We don't but in Saudai Arbia and correct me if I'm wrong drinking alcohol is not allowed at all but presumably that's not overbearing at all?

Twice a day we broadcast on one radio and one TV staion the angelus it's not five times a day and it's not from the roof tops. We don't force you to drink and most of us respect your religion.

However your ill thought out statement is infact insulting and to finally decry that you find it all distressing is curious at best. I was going to say "when in Rome. . " but then I have no wish to have you conform to our beliefs. I would far rather that you accept that this is what our country, is a "Christian" country with a certain history and belief set.

If you cant do that then you need to revisit your beliefs.

MrJoeSoap

Banned already. That was quick.

Oppressive Christian Regimes ftw!

Gordon

OP is a troll, I wouldn't bother replying.

XJR

As an aside I would think that when ultimately you embrace Islam properly you will find our customs and beliefs less insulting. I wonder do you find our customs and beliefs an additional threat to your already faltering adherence to your new religion .

BrianCalgary

XJR wrote: »

As an aside I would think that when ultimately you embrace Islam properly you will find our customs and beliefs less insulting. I wonder do you find our customs and beliefs an additional threat to your already faltering adherence to your new religion .

The problem isn't with the belief set. The problem is that any Islamic country in the world is an undemocratic oppresive regime that does not allow freedom of speech nor search for truth.

Nevyn

newireland wrote: »

Hello christians,

I am a recent muslim convert and I have one request, and seeing as Ireland is a secular nation now perhaps it could be granted, I want to see the angelus finished as it is insulting

They may have been a troll but they do have a point.
Ireland was founded as a republic and as a secular state with no preference meant to be given to any one religion.
This was eroded over the years, the prime example being the mother and child act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_and_Child_Scheme

Since the establishment of the Irish Free State responsibility in the government for healthcare laid with the Minister for Local Government & Public Health. No significant reform of healthcare occurred in this time and the Catholic Church still retained effective control through the ownership of hospitals and schools, whilst family doctors still largely practiced in isolation of other medical professionals.

In 1950, Browne proposed introducing a scheme which would provide free maternity care for all mothers and free healthcare for all children up to the age of sixteen, regardless of income.
It met with ferocious opposition from conservative elements in the Catholic hierarchy and the medical profession. The Catholic Church leadership was divided between those like Archbishop of Dublin John Charles McQuaid who believed that it was the exclusive right of all parents to provide healthcare for their child, and younger moderates like Bishop William Philbin who saw some merit in state assistance to families. Some bishops, like McQuaid, also feared that it could pave the way for abortion and birth control. Though some Catholic Church leaders may have been privately sympathetic to Browne and wished to reach an accommodation, what was viewed as Browne's tactless handling of the Catholic Church forced the moderates into silence, allowing the anti-Mother and Child Scheme members of the hierarchy under McQuaid to set the agenda

So we should not have Crucifixes in hospitals,
we should not have over 90% of schools as private religous schools,
we should not have breast cancer treatment programs denied in our hospitals as the women would have to be on birth control,
we should have proper sexual health education programs in school ( with an opt out )
and we should not have had the magdalene landries which visited so much misery on people.

While I do not have a problem with Christianity I do have a problem with the lack of separation of church and state esp when it is contrary to the founding principles of this country.

Dizzyblonde

newireland wrote: »

Dear irish people, I am merely asking for a reform of an old tired establishment of Ireland, perhaps it was too soon too ask this of you, I am sorry

No, I wouldn't say it was too soon, I'd say it was not your place to ask it. We are still for the most part a Christian country, and in recent years the Angelus is far less about Catholicism and more about taking a moment out of your day to reflect on your spirituality. If you're a spiritual person then I fail to see how this can offend you.
I wouldn't expect to go to a largely Muslim country and criticise their practices.
As far as crucifixes in hospitals are concerned, if I went into a Jewish hospital or other public building I wouldn't whine about the Star of David being on the walls. You're making a big deal out of nothing and I can't help wondering why??

Run_to_da_hills

newireland wrote: »

Hello christians,

I am a recent muslim convert and I have one request, and seeing as ireland is a secular nation now perhaps it could be granted, I want to see the angelus finished as it is insulting

You can use this time to reflect on your own beliefs, I believe it is no longer called the Angelus.

blackthorn

newireland,

I see you've been banned. Please take the time out to concentrate on practicing Islam to the best of your ability, and forget about having a go at other peoples traditions. I say this as a fellow convert to Islam.

Fuseman

newireland wrote: »

I seem to have caused a bit of a stir, it is not that i abhor your calling to faith it is merely an observation from without your belief. In Saudi, where my husband is from, everyone is welcome to practice their beliefs wholly in the name of their faith, however your overbearing broadcasting of the angelus strikes me as being non secular

We are not a secular country. We accept and welcome other religions, but we are a Catholic country

Nerin

While I do not have a problem with Christianity I do have a problem with the lack of separation of church and state esp when it is contrary to the founding principles of this country.

here here.
as i said in the thread about creationism in schools,if you want your religion to be in the public domain,everyone elses should be also.
if you want crucifixes in hospitals, fine, as long as all other religious symbols are there also. want christian beliefs taught in religion class? teach all other religions too.

as for

We accept and welcome other religions, but we are a Catholic country

i really don't like labeling any country like that, we are a democracy, we have freedom of speech, we have a rich and varied society.
we are not "ruled".
we are not all catholics.