Worst Day of my life SO FAR!

Jammyd

Well guys this is gonna be kind of a rant but its purpose is i hope somebody can give me some good advice cause i seriously aint too sure what to do, I lost my Laser card on wed night/ thurs morning but didnt discover it missing til thurs evening, i called into the bank the next day and canceled and reordered a new card first thing that morning, just checked my online banking and discovered that my account has been completely wiped, and minus 1250, most of the transactions that were taken occured in the bohermore area and dunnes stores, am sick to my stomach especially since i had cancelled the card and checked my account on thursday to make sure nothing had been taken out, i was just wondering has this happened to anyone around galway?? does the bank generally give the money back and does anyone know of anyone who knows about this sort of thing, nothing like this has ever happened me and im physically sick that some k*****r could freely use my card around galway and it be accepted without a pin and go double over my overdraft,,,, any advice guys?? i could seriously do with some:(

forbairt

Jammyd wrote: »

any advice guys?? i could seriously do with some:(

Have you gone to the gardi ? ... bring a record of where the transactions took place with you ...

cazzy

How can they use it without a PIN ? Since March 17th certain merchants (including Dunnes as far as I know) can only accept PIN.

If you cancelled it it would have been deactived immediatley so couldnt be used?

You can ask the bank how to proceed they can ask for CCTV or you could from the store. All Dunnes have a very good CCTV system but the request to view it would have to come from the gardai i would guess.

Jammyd

ya just went there they said there was nothing i could do until the bank print off the transactions and show where i last used it and the transactions from there forward.. they told me alot of people are coming in with the same problem

cornbb

That sucks man. Check out the Laser card terms and conditions on your banks website, sometimes they will offer you protection against withdrawals on stolen cards as long as its reported ASAP. You might request that this thread is moved to the Banking forum too, you will probably get more knowledgeable folk in there.

As an example here's an extract from AIB's Ts&Cs for laser cards:

You will be responsible for any loss sustained, up to the time of notification to us in accordance with clause 11 or 12. Your liability will be limited to an overall limit of €63.49, except in the following circumstances:

* if you acted, knowingly, fraudulently or with gross negligence; or
* if any Transactions were effected as a result of the breach of clause 4; or
* if any Card is used by any other person outside the terms of this Agreement and who has possession of it with your consent; or
* if you do not notify us in accordance with clause 11 that a Card has been lost, mislaid or stolen or used, or likely to be used, for a fraudulent or improper purpose.

This will vary from bank to bank though so check your own bank's website out.

Redshift

The way it works with liability on chip and pin if fraud takes place on a card
is if the pin was used then you are liable and would have a tough time getting any comeback on the otherhand if the card was accepted without a pin (This can still be done:rolleyes:) then the retailer is liable.
You need to find out if the pin was used or not.

Jammyd

cazzy wrote: »

How can they use it without a PIN ? Since March 17th certain merchants (including Dunnes as far as I know) can only accept PIN.

If you cancelled it it would have been deactived immediatley so couldnt be used?

You can ask the bank how to proceed they can ask for CCTV or you could from the store. All Dunnes have a very good CCTV system but the request to view it would have to come from the gardai i would guess.

Problem is in alot of places you can overide the pin and sign for it, its ridiculous but can be done, the fraud dept just told me all but two transations were processed without a pin, them two are worrying me, they were in Elverys and Tesco, havent a clue how this happened cause it certainly wasnt me

Jammyd

I never felt so sick in my life when i discovered it, actually phsically vomited on the way to the guards

cornbb

Jammyd wrote: »

I never felt so sick in my life when i discovered it, actually phsically vomited on the way to the guards

Chin up, it could be worse. I had my car stolen recently, thousands of euros worth of stuff that wasn't covered by insurance, my personal belongings violated by scumbags, weeks of hassle with Gardai and insurance company. Now still driving around in it, a banged-up piece of sh*t with torn seats. But its only stuff at the end of the day, at least you weren't knifed or something.

Jammyd

cornbb wrote: »

Chin up, it could be worse. I had my car stolen recently, thousands of euros worth of stuff that wasn't covered by insurance, my personal belongings violated by scumbags, weeks of hassle with Gardai and insurance company. Now still driving around in it, a banged-up piece of sh*t with torn seats. But its only stuff at the end of the day, at least you weren't knifed or something.

cheers man, appreciate it, im just so shocked cause i asked for it to be canceled on friday and all the transactions went through in the last 3 days,, you just cant rely on anyone

Redshift

I've had my car stolen aswell and you really feel violated and horrible when something like this happens not to mention all the hassle it causes you.

These sort of scumbags usually end up at a sticky end eventually as what goes around always comes around eventually.

Word of advice don't let the banks fob you off, you need to be like a dog with a bone on this issue, don't go away and don't take no for an answer.

I really feel for you and hope it works out.

cazzy

if two transactions were done with the PIn it must be someone that knows you and knew your PIN, no ?

you will not be liable for transactions that occured after you notified the bank. Not sure bout transactions before that and not sure how you would fare if the PIN was used correctly.

The fraud department of the bank will know all the tricks and have a good relationship with the fraud gardai. (even if they give you back the money they may still chase the CCTV etc for themselves) Did the bank not explain all this to you at the time you reported it stolen ? Call 24 hour banking and ask for the process.

cazzy

Jammyd wrote: »

cheers man, appreciate it, im just so shocked cause i asked for it to be canceled on friday and all the transactions went through in the last 3 days,, you just cant rely on anyone

Laser transactions aren't real time - those transactions that hit your account this week may have taken place last week. The bank will know when from the merchant. Have you not noticed this before from your statements ? If the merchant banks with AIB and you BOI it can take at least a few working days for the money to leave your account.

forbairt

Jammyd wrote: »

Problem is in alot of places you can overide the pin and sign for it, its ridiculous but can be done, the fraud dept just told me all but two transations were processed without a pin, them two are worrying me, they were in Elverys and Tesco, havent a clue how this happened cause it certainly wasnt me

Elverys should have cameras on the payment desk ... you know the time of the purchase .. proceed from there ... ring them tomorrow and tell them your card was used at whatever time and do they have the camera logs for that time period ... the longer you leave it the less chance they'll still have them

leninbenjamin

that really sucks, hope it works out for you.

speaktofrank

Hoe exactly did you lose it? Did you have your pin written down inside a wallet or something. I don't see how it would be possible for someone to use it and have the pin number.

Redshift

Just another tip for you and anyone else reading, what I do to protect myself from being completely cleaned out other than being careful with my cards and covering my pin is I keep most of my money in my online savings account and tranfer the minimum to my current account as and when needed it's the same bank so the tranfer is instant.
It requires a little more management but you can keep on top of it.
I also cancelled my overdraft so the most they would get might be a couple of hundred euro.

Jammyd

The Bank told me on the phone that 2 transactions used a pin so am not too sure how this happened especially since the bulk i.e 1650 euros was used without giving the pin i pressume they signed for it, i checked my account on thurs evening when i discovered it missing but it was at half nine in the evening and my account seemed fine i got a taxi wednesday night from salthill and think it fell out of my pocket, i went in the first thing the next morning and the women i delt with was a complete muppet, i have a feeling she didnt even cancel the card and just ordered me a new one, the lady i just spoke to said the card that was ordered was just an atm card, which isnt what i asked for so i think they'l have a lot to sort out, its just gonna be soo much hassle and i hope to god it gets sorted soon

sgthighway

forbairt wrote: »

... the longer you leave it the less chance they'll still have them

Defo Agreed on that.

I was shocked when I did a transaction recently and I wasn't asked for my PIN. I was so shocked!!!!!!!!!
I signed something but I had the card back in my wallet before I signed it and the girl on the till never compared the my signature with mine on the back of the card.

I'd feel sorry for the lad who robbed my card -> Insufficient Funds for about 29 days a month

cazzy

Redshift wrote: »

Just another tip for you and anyone else reading, what I do to protect myself from being completely cleaned out other than being careful with my cards and covering my pin is I keep most of my money in my online savings account and tranfer the minimum to my current account as and when needed it's the same bank so the tranfer is instant.
It requires a little more management but you can keep on top of it.
I also cancelled my overdraft so the most they would get might be a couple of hundred euro.

Unfortunatley that will not work as laser is not online. even without an overdraft a laser car will work and throw you into o/d. Thats why banks wouldnt give laser cards out as easily as credit cards in the past.
Reason for this is that a store would not accept a laser card if it worked like an ATM Card (ie rejected for insufficient funds) - you could imagine the hassle this would casue in a shop like Dunnes if someone had a hundred euro worth of shopping put through the till and their card rejected and they had no more money on them to pay for shopping!
If someone steals your laser card and you have zero balance on your account you will just be thrown into a big unauthorised overdraft.

Potential-Monke

Right, two transactions used the pin, so they will be harder to claim back. As for the other ones, i;m sure a good solicitor would be able to bring a civil actions against the stores who bypassed the pins, get some good compensation for yourself, possibly. The Gardai will do all they can, but it's a case of dealing with the banks through the Fraud department of both the Gardai and the bank, so it'll probably take a while, plus if the bank aren't quick enough to get back to the Gardai with times of transactions the CCTV footage from teh areas where the card was used could be gone (some places only hold CCTV for 72 hours... useless).

Redshift

cazzy wrote: »

Unfortunatley that will not work as laser is not online. even without an overdraft a laser car will work and throw you into o/d. Thats why banks wouldnt give laser cards out as easily as credit cards in the past.
Reason for this is that a store would not accept a laser card if it worked like an ATM Card (ie rejected for insufficient funds) - you could imagine the hassle this would casue in a shop like Dunnes if someone had a hundred euro worth of shopping put through the till and their card rejected and they had no more money on them to pay for shopping!
If someone steals your laser card and you have zero balance on your account you will just be thrown into a big unauthorised overdraft.

Thats me told:o, I always thought it was no funds no transaction, I remember using my laser card to pay for a hotel a short time back and although the transaction was posted the following week, my available balance was reduced straight away.

cazzy

Nope, retailers would not accept a no funds no transaction card.
You can imagine the hassle on a Saturday morning in Dunnes with everyones card rejecting ! (The amount of times Ive gone to the ATM and got a surprise to see the unsuffient funds message !)

Jammyd

Guys, thanks a mill for all your advice its much appreciated, am going in first thing in the mornin so will let ya know how it goes... cheers guys

ZorbaTehZ

OP very sorry to hear that - my father got robbed about a month ago - laptop, dvd player, ps2, 2x digital cameras, palm-pilot etc. so I know how frustrating it can be.
Ridiculous that they wouldn't take the pins or check the signature. I guess the only good thing(if you know what I mean) is the fact that he went into so many shops, im sure there's a good possibility that there's at least one CCTV that got a good shot of him.

Fey!

Your Laser card shouldn't have let €1,650 worth of transactions go through in a 24 hour )midnight to midnight) period. The limit for the card is supposed to be €1,500 for that period. The only way around this in my (retailers) experience is to ring an authorisation line and get an authorisation number for a larger transaction, which involves the authorisation company contacting the cardholders bank.

Laser is also only supposed to let you spend money you have and are entitled to; it should refuse transactions that make you overdrawn (unless you have an overdraft).

Of course, all of this depends on your agreement with your bank.

As for signing cards, it is still possible for a retailer to override the PIN for the customer. However, it is very rare for the shop assistant to check the signature (this was the situation before chip and PIN too, and not just in Ireland). A lot of customers forget to sign their card, too, so the person who steals it just signs it themselves (sometimes with their own names instead of the name on the card, and nobody checks!!!)

EDIT: OP, if you have a list of the shops the card was used in, contact the managers in each of them and explain that your stolen card was used in their shops. Then ask if they have can give you a copy of the cctv, or a still from it; you should have the times and dates from the bank (bear in mind that some cctv systems may not have had their times changed last week, which reminds me I must do ours tomorrow...) If you can then show that to the Gardai, often times the Gardai will know the person straight away; that's what happened when a guy stole stuff from us a couple of years ago.
Personally, I have the back of my card signed "ID ONLY".

Good luck with getting this sorted out. For transactions after your cancellation, fight the bank on it. You have nothing to lose by sticking up for yourself.

Toto Wolfcastle

I worked in a large department store before March 17th, stopped for a few months, then started working again. I presumed from the ads on tv that it was now illegal to sign for a chip and pin card, but the other staff didn't seem to know anything about it. The thing is, the customers would put in the pin wrong 3 times and then the receipt for signing would automatically print out. Stupid system that has only made it easier for people to use other peoples' cards.

Sorry to hear that OP, hope you get it sorted.

I left my Laser in a shop by mistake one day. A friend of mine who worked there tried calling me but I was in work. Soon after got a phone call from AIB saying that the manager had called them to cancel it as a precaution. If only all shops were so careful then maybe all this trouble could have been avoided.

Lockstep

Jammyd wrote: »

Well guys this is gonna be kind of a rant but its purpose is i hope somebody can give me some good advice cause i seriously aint too sure what to do, I lost my Laser card on wed night/ thurs morning but didnt discover it missing til thurs evening, i called into the bank the next day and canceled and reordered a new card first thing that morning, just checked my online banking and discovered that my account has been completely wiped, and minus 1250, most of the transactions that were taken occured in the bohermore area and dunnes stores, am sick to my stomach especially since i had cancelled the card and checked my account on thursday to make sure nothing had been taken out, i was just wondering has this happened to anyone around galway?? does the bank generally give the money back and does anyone know of anyone who knows about this sort of thing, nothing like this has ever happened me and im physically sick that some k*****r could freely use my card around galway and it be accepted without a pin and go double over my overdraft,,,, any advice guys?? i could seriously do with some:(

I sympathize man, I really do. I know it's no consolation whatsoever,
but man, I felt pissed off enough reading this, it's just sickening.

Zzippy

Jammyd wrote: »

The Bank told me on the phone that 2 transactions used a pin so am not too sure how this happened especially since the bulk i.e 1650 euros was used without giving the pin i pressume they signed for it, i checked my account on thurs evening when i discovered it missing but it was at half nine in the evening and my account seemed fine i got a taxi wednesday night from salthill and think it fell out of my pocket, i went in the first thing the next morning and the women i delt with was a complete muppet, i have a feeling she didnt even cancel the card and just ordered me a new one, the lady i just spoke to said the card that was ordered was just an atm card, which isnt what i asked for so i think they'l have a lot to sort out, its just gonna be soo much hassle and i hope to god it gets sorted soon

So you discovered it missing Thursday evening, think it was mislaid on Wednesday evening, and reported it Friday morning. They could have had the card for 36 hours before you reported it to the bank, and all of those transactions could have taken place in that time - they wouldn't hit your account until this week. Unfortunately I'd say you might have trouble getting anything back from the bank If there's any way they can deny liability they will :rolleyes:
In fairness, you should have reported it Thursday evening when you found it was missing - there are 24 hour phonelines for reporting lost cards! Sorry, but I wouldn't have any sympathy for you over any transactions that happened between then and when you reported it.

Jammyd

Galwayguy99 wrote: »

So you discovered it missing Thursday evening, think it was mislaid on Wednesday evening, and reported it Friday morning. They could have had the card for 36 hours before you reported it to the bank, and all of those transactions could have taken place in that time - they wouldn't hit your account until this week. Unfortunately I'd say you might have trouble getting anything back from the bank If there's any way they can deny liability they will :rolleyes:
In fairness, you should have reported it Thursday evening when you found it was missing - there are 24 hour phonelines for reporting lost cards! Sorry, but I wouldn't have any sympathy for you over any transactions that happened between then and when you reported it.

thanks for your input. :mad: i didnt know i had mislaid it until thursday night, i checked my banking 365 and all my accounts were fine, therefore i presumed i had dropped in the taxi etc, the bank are going to reimburse me everything because they fecked up and didnt cancel the card when i asked.
thanks again though to everyone else for your advice, it definetly helped me out

The Queen

Im with ya... Just found out im some how MINUS €600... how, i have no idea...

Zzippy

Jammyd wrote: »

thanks for your input. :mad: i didnt know i had mislaid it until thursday night, i checked my banking 365 and all my accounts were fine, therefore i presumed i had dropped in the taxi etc, the bank are going to reimburse me everything because they fecked up and didnt cancel the card when i asked.
thanks again though to everyone else for your advice, it definetly helped me out

The truth sometimes hurts.
As someone else said transactions often take a few days to show up. You reported a missing card at least 12 hours after you knew it was missing. You only reported it missing Friday morning so by their own policy they wouldn't have to reimburse you for any transactions up to that point. Consider yourself lucky they are covering the whole lot, and not just whatever happened after you reported it.
Hope its a lesson learned.