BRENDAN McCANN - EXCELLENT LETTER.

Freddie59

From this week's Waterford News and Star. Well done Mr. Healy. Put simply into a concise form is the exasperation and anger felt by many Waterfordians. Take a bow.

http://www.waterford-news.com/news/story.asp?j=27049

Typhoon.

hee hee....ooooOOOoo...nice one

ec18

did he really object to pizza hut?

mickger

Freddie59 wrote: »

From this week's Waterford News and Star. Well done Mr. Healy. Put simply into a concise form is the exasperation and anger felt by many Waterfordians. Take a bow.

http://www.waterford-news.com/news/story.asp?j=27049

I agree totally. A great letter. If only he would go back to where he came from maybe Waterford would come into the 21st century with some new developments. We are falling behind the rest of the country. Take the new development in athlone as an example.

fricatus

mickger wrote: »

If only he would go back to where he came from maybe Waterford would come into the 21st century with some new developments. We are falling behind the rest of the country. Take the new development in athlone as an example.

We should be careful of a few things:

- Telling people to "go back to where they came from", however much we dislike them. Are we really that closed in Waterford? (stop sniggering at the back) I certainly hope not...

- Thinking that the development inertia in Waterford is all McCann's fault. It isn't - he's just the lightning conductor. Our city council and other local property owners are at fault too. Contrast yer man from the outdoor shop on New Street with the guy being interviewed on the news from Athlone the other evening.

The New Street guy is objecting to the Newgate Centre for many reasons, one being that it would put him out of business (which it won't...). The Athlone guy was talking about how Dunnes came to the town a few years ago, small shops were saying they'd have to close, but no, people came to the town because of Dunnes and the small shops got more business, and their new shopping centre will do the same.

People who want small shops to succeed should look at the reality: where are the biggest concentrations of small shops in the country? Easy, the main cities! Cork and Galway are the best at looking after their small shops. No coincidence that they also have big shopping centres in their centres with Debenhams, Dunnes, M&S and BT, along with all the big multiples.

mad man

I might be going off topic here but I read it on another Waterford forum that Anthony O'Reilly wants to develop 32 acres of the Waterford Crystal site. I checked it out and it was in yesterdays Sunday Times. The story is he is reducing manufactureing to "stemware" which is "drinking glasses" to you and me. He wants to expand the visitors centre and build a 500 million Euro development of retail and double visitor numbers to the visitors centre. This might not be a bad idea if the Newgate centre goes ahead beforehand because it is possible it will be sustained by visitors to the centre.

Freddie59

mad man wrote: »

I might be going off topic here but I read it on another Waterford forum that Anthony O'Reilly wants to develop 32 acres of the Waterford Crystal site. I checked it out and it was in yesterdays Sunday Times. The story is he is reducing manufactureing to "stemware" which is "drinking glasses" to you and me. He wants to expand the visitors centre and build a 500 million Euro development of retail and double visitor numbers to the visitors centre. This might not be a bad idea if the Newgate centre goes ahead beforehand because it is possible it will be sustained by visitors to the centre.

It will be interesting to see if Brendan objects to this - given that he has not objected to ANY development at his adjacent place of employment, WIT.

Freddie59

fricatus wrote: »

We should be careful of a few things:

- Telling people to "go back to where they came from", however much we dislike them. Are we really that closed in Waterford? (stop sniggering at the back) I certainly hope not....

I would agree to a small degree. This letter is obviously borne out of frustration. And, from talking to people in general, this type of serial objecting is deeply troubling to many Waterfordians - just because they choose not to express their opinions in whatever media does not mean that they are to be discounted.

BBM77

mad man wrote: »

I might be going off topic here but I read it on another Waterford forum that Anthony O'Reilly wants to develop 32 acres of the Waterford Crystal site. I checked it out and it was in yesterdays Sunday Times. The story is he is reducing manufactureing to "stemware" which is "drinking glasses" to you and me. He wants to expand the visitors centre and build a 500 million Euro development of retail and double visitor numbers to the visitors centre. This might not be a bad idea if the Newgate centre goes ahead beforehand because it is possible it will be sustained by visitors to the centre.

I would be a great thing for the city but I am totally disillusioned with development in Waterford. It seems the more important and advantageous a development is the more it will be delayed and least likely to be constructed. I can see it all now, application → appeals (most of them self interested nonsense) → further information → City council grants permission → appealed to An Bord Pleanala → a year later permission granted if we’re lucky → Waterford continues to stagnate because of lack of progress. Next important development, application → appeals………………………:mad:

mad man

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

I would be a great thing for the city but I am totally disillusioned with development in Waterford. It seems the more important and advantageous a development is the more it will be delayed and least likely to be constructed. I can see it all now, application → appeals (most of them self interested nonsense) → further information → City council grants permission → appealed to An Bord Pleanala → a year later permission granted if we’re lucky → Waterford continues to stagnate because of lack of progress. Next important development, application → appeals………………………:mad:

It seems we are destined to shoot ourselves in the foot.I am convinced we are at a crucial stage in our development.I believe there are parallels between the furore over Newgate and other development and the industrial disputes of the late 70's and 80's.We dropped the ball then and Galway leapfrogged us.If we do it now Drogheda and Dundalk will its that simple.We might end up the only city with towns bigger then us.It is worth a drive up to Drogheda and Dundalk to see what's going on up there.They are ahead of us in many ways.Retail for example and they havn't got this aversion to high rise commercial buildings we seem to have.

BBM77

mad man wrote: »

It seems we are destined to shoot ourselves in the foot.I am convinced we are at a crucial stage in our development.I believe there are parallels between the furore over Newgate and other development and the industrial disputes of the late 70's and 80's.We dropped the ball then and Galway leapfrogged us.If we do it now Drogheda and Dundalk will its that simple.We might end up the only city with towns bigger then us.It is worth a drive up to Drogheda and Dundalk to see what's going on up there.They are ahead of us in many ways.Retail for example and they havn't got this aversion to high rise commercial buildings we seem to have.

It is very annoying to see all the advantages that Waterford has and they are just not made the most of. I fully agree with you we are at a turning point. We constantly hear of the damage that government under funding has done to Waterford, it is about time we took a look at ourselves as a city and the damage some of its citizens are doing. I mean do we want to be a successful regional capital or what. I get the feeling at the moment that there are a number of people in Waterford that does not want this success and are active to stop it. As for going to Drogheda or Dundalk it would probably only put me in a bad mood, like the time I drove out of Limerick towards Galway and saw the dual carriage, at the time we didn't even have a proper road to the capital. (I know we still don't but at least it is under construction.)

mad man

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

It is very annoying to see all the advantages that Waterford has and they are just not made the most of. I fully agree with you we are at a turning point. We constantly hear of the damage that government under funding has done to Waterford, it is about time we took a look at ourselves as a city and the damage some of its citizens are doing. I mean do we want to be a successful regional capital or what. I get the feeling at the moment that there are a number of people in Waterford that does not want this success and are active to stop it. As for going to Drogheda or Dundalk it would probably only put me in a bad mood, like the time I drove out of Limerick towards Galway and saw the dual carriage, at the time we didn't even have a proper road to the capital. (I know we still don't but at least it is under construction.)

I hear what your saying.I am wholeheartedly convinced that there are people as you say "do not want to be a success regional capital." Who knows why they are like this.I personally thinks its for mainly two reasons. The first is it would undermine their politics and for others its because it would undermine their own cosy position i.e Nimbyism.

Daysha

link no longer up. Anyone able to copy and paste?

fricatus

mad man wrote: »

It seems we are destined to shoot ourselves in the foot.

You hit the nail on the head there, mad man! We've always shot ourselves in the foot in Waterford, be it the militant union types feeding their own egoes "putting it up to the bosses" while the Glass and the city at large haemmorhaged employment, or the dock workers fighting the good fight while New Ross and Drogheda stripped away our port's tonnage. I'm not saying those lads were wrong, but they never saw the big picture. Their only victories were Pyrrhic victories, and they ended up moving Waterford backwards, not forwards.

But are we "destined" to go on like this forever? Was Galway "destined" always to be the Republic's 5th city? No, and it's creeping up on Limerick now to take away its 3rd place in population terms, but it is the country's de facto third city anyway. Are we "destined" to be one of only five cities forever? Is Athlone "destined" to be a mid-size town in the midlands? Certainly not!

BBM77

mad man wrote: »

..............others its because it would undermine their own cosy position i.e Nimbyism.

This is the attitude I just cannot understand. It has been shown time after time that increasing big name chain stores in a city or town centre increases footfall, business and so revenue to all the business including the pre-existing shops. Why does this mentality that a new shopping centre will “close us down” still persist? Do these people ever do any research?

Freddie59

mad man wrote: »

The first is it would undermine their politics and for others its because it would undermine their own cosy position i.e Nimbyism.

Quite right. And that permeates the City Council also. Why are the majority of existing and planned halting sites in the North-West surburbs, while the South East suburbs (Dunmore Road area) remain virtually unscathed? Same goes with City Council Housing developments.

I wonder would anyone in the City Council care to answer that one?

Freddie59

fricatus wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head there, mad man! We've always shot ourselves in the foot in Waterford, be it the militant union types feeding their own egoes "putting it up to the bosses" while the Glass and the city at large haemmorhaged employment, or the dock workers fighting the good fight while New Ross and Drogheda stripped away our port's tonnage. I'm not saying those lads were wrong, but they never saw the big picture. Their only victories were Pyrrhic victories, and they ended up moving Waterford backwards, not forwards.

Have you any comment on the idiotic posturing by the WCTU on the Newgate street development?

Roen

Exactly which unions comprise the WCTU?
If SIPTU are I'll be looking for all my subs back.

fricatus

Freddie59 wrote: »

Have you any comment on the idiotic posturing by the WCTU on the Newgate street development?

Oh JC on a skateboard, don't get me started...

Freddie59

Roen wrote: »

Exactly which unions comprise the WCTU?
If SIPTU are I'll be looking for all my subs back.

My problem is exactly that. Who are WCTU - and why are they claiming to represent Union members on this issue/ They certainly don't represent me. Or many other members that I've spoken to.:mad:

ROCKMAN

LADS
Check out the article on the front page of this weeks News and Star, Good article about how retailing is declining and Developers being scared away by serial objecters in Waterford.

Jor

Ryan Tubrity's radio show came from Carrick-on-Suir to-day.
A lot of it was dedicated to talking about the apparant stagnant image that the town has because there has been no modern shopping development there. It still has the traditional street shops.
Personally, as I don't particularly like shopping, I actually prefer the small shops to the major shopping malls. I even hate the word "MALL".
However, the fact is I am a small minority. And in these days of "If you build it, they will come", towns and cities have to have a central shopping area to attract people and employment.
If Waterford is not to end up like a large C-on-S, then a definate plan has to be agreed on and gotten on with soon.

BBM77

ROCKMAN wrote: »

LADS
Check out the article on the front page of this weeks News and Star, Good article about how retailing is declining and Developers being scared away by serial objecters in Waterford.

To be honest, it is just more talk. I am sick to the teeth of this kind of talk. There is a developer who wants to build what will be the biggest shopping centre in the southeast now, I wish that they would just let them build it. It will be the kick-start Waterford needs in retail terms. There is no mystery here the solution is as clear as day. Less bull and more building.

fricatus

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

To be honest, it is just more talk. I am sick to the teeth of this kind of talk. There is a developer who wants to build what will be the biggest shopping centre in the southeast now, I wish that they would just let them build it. It will be the kick-start Waterford needs in retail terms. There is no mystery here the solution is as clear as day. Less bull and more building.

At least someone stood up and said what had to be said, but you're right... less talk more walk is what's needed now.

This oral hearing is apparently on 13-14, you said that, didn't you Ballybrickenman? What happens after that? Will they p155 around for six months discussing the submissions? Or will it be a relatively quick decision.

Jor wrote: »

Ryan Tubrity's radio show came from Carrick-on-Suir to-day.
A lot of it was dedicated to talking about the apparant stagnant image that the town has because there has been no modern shopping development there. It still has the traditional street shops.
Personally, as I don't particularly like shopping, I actually prefer the small shops to the major shopping malls. I even hate the word "MALL".
However, the fact is I am a small minority. And in these days of "If you build it, they will come", towns and cities have to have a central shopping area to attract people and employment.
If Waterford is not to end up like a large C-on-S, then a definate plan has to be agreed on and gotten on with soon.

Hear hear, Jor. It's nice to see someone who is not into shopping, but realises that it's an absolute necessity for a city like Waterford. Too many people are going around saying "sure what do we need more shops for? don't we have enough?", when they haven't a clue what they're talking about.

You aren't into shopping; but you're happy to see shops built. I'm not into soccer; but you won't hear me asking "but don't we have enough soccer pitches?"

Pity others who have no interest in shopping wouldn't abstain on the issue and not hinder what so many others want to see developed here.

BBM77

fricatus wrote: »

This oral hearing is apparently on 13-14, you said that, didn't you Ballybrickenman? What happens after that? Will they p155 around for six months discussing the submissions? Or will it be a relatively quick decision.

Yes Fricatus, the oral hearing is on 13-14 Nov. The decision is due in November but it will probably be put of a few times. Decisions for Pennies & the Lisduggan shopping centre to name but two were put of a couple of times. So realistically we can consider ourselves lucky if we get a decision before Christmas. Getting the go ahead for the Newgate centre would be a great way to end the year for Waterford, here’s hoping.

I found out that the city council will be at the oral hearing. They will be there in support of the development. It should add a bit of weight to the pro side of the argument.

merlante

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

Yes Fricatus, the oral hearing is on 13-14 Nov. The decision is due in November but it will probably be put of a few times. Decisions for Pennies & the Lisduggan shopping centre to name but two were put of a couple of times. So realistically we can consider ourselves lucky if we get a decision before Christmas. Getting the go ahead for the Newgate centre would be a great way to end the year for Waterford, here’s hoping.

I found out that the city council will be at the oral hearing. They will be there in support of the development. It should add a bit of weight to the pro side of the argument.

City Council + Chamber of Commerce V Dept. of Environment + McCann + NIMBYs.

Anyone have a coin? :rolleyes:

My fingers are cramped from keeping them crossed...

kkman

Newstalk, the George Hook show covered this today, they had McCann and Leech on

jmcc

kkman wrote: »

Newstalk, the George Hook show covered this today, they had McCann and Leech on

And for those of us who don't listen to talk radio, what happened?

Regards...jmcc

fricatus

kkman wrote: »

Newstalk, the George Hook show covered this today, they had McCann and Leech on

Any idea if it's Podcasted?

kkman

Well sweet fa now jmcc as the hearing is over and will report in Feb, looks like a Giant big glass box for Waterford though

kkman

Id say it will be