Paddy Power Poker End-user Agreement????

themadchef

logged on this lunch time to an "i agree..i disagree" dialog box from the powers that be? Any one know what its about?
If you disagree i take it your poker playing days with PPP are over. logged back out till i know what im agreeing to.
Can anyone fill me in? cheers

Katrina

Grimebox

I couldnt have pressed i agree any quicker, without even reading the title of the agreement. stupid me? i couldnt be that bad onw could it

Mellor

Grimebox wrote: »

I couldnt have pressed i agree any quicker, without even reading the title of the agreement. stupid me? i couldnt be that bad onw could it

lol, they donated 10% of your cash to charity

newbie2

It's long and I can't copy and paste it. Didn't bother reading it, i think it include stuff like 1: You agree to recieve periodic emails etc.

BigCityBanker

When you download PPP for the first time you have to agree to the T&C's. This is pretty much the same with any poiker client or any programme that you download for end use.

The PPP terms and conditions have been updated so as when you first downloaded the poker client you must again agree to these updated terms and conditions. Its pretty standard tbh.

RoundTower

"pretty standard" isn't good enough. If you are representing PPP here (don't know if you are, or if you just advertise them for free) you should be able to give a brief summary of what the T&Cs are, and in particular what has changed. After all PPP wouldn't have changed them unless they thought it was necessary, so there must be something important in the changed part.

Mellor

BigCityBanker wrote: »

When you download PPP for the first time you have to agree to the T&C's. This is pretty much the same with any poiker client or any programme that you download for end use.

The PPP terms and conditions have been updated so as when you first downloaded the poker client you must again agree to these updated terms and conditions. Its pretty standard tbh.

to save us reading through them, where exactly did they change? anything significant?

Glowingmind

http://www.paddypowerpoker.com/site-info/terms-and-conditions.php

RoundTower

I already knew the web address for Paddy Power, but thanks.

What I and OP was asking for was a summary of the changes that doesn't involve me reading small print for half an hour or calling my lawyer.

BigCityBanker

RoundTower wrote: »

"pretty standard" isn't good enough. If you are representing PPP here (don't know if you are, or if you just advertise them for free) you should be able to give a brief summary of what the T&Cs are, and in particular what has changed. After all PPP wouldn't have changed them unless they thought it was necessary, so there must be something important in the changed part.

Im not in the office so i dont have the comparison here - so im not in position to detail this at the minute.

Mellor wrote: »

to save us reading through them, where exactly did they change? anything significant?

see above.

RoundTower

even if PPP won't release an unofficial "summary" of the T&C for legal reasons, it wouldn't be difficult to highlight the changes so that anyone who is really interested can find out quickly. Not doing this is basically saying "lol we know no one ever reads this anyway and just clicks Agree as fast as possible to get their gamble on". Then a PPP rep tells us "nothing to worry about here, it's similar to every other site". Not a sign of a company you want to do business with.

Macspower

Same happened on a different i-poker client last week...

BigCityBanker

Round Tower,

Please get down off the stage.

At no point in this thread have I said that the t&c's were standard nor have I inferred this. I dont spend my days comparing the t&c's of PPP to other poker clients. I have stated that the process surrounding the t&c's and end user agreement is standard.

My reference to being similar to other sites was about having to click the 'i agree' tab before being able to become an end user? This is VERY similar to other sites.

My reference to it being pretty standard was as it is. It is standard practice that you must click on the 'i agree' button before you can become an end user. This isnt just pretty standard - it is VERY standard.

RoundTower

also, does anyone ever read that webpage?

mistake 1: The Terms and Conditions are displayed under the "Poker Strategy" header. Along with some wonderful articles about how JJ is like a glass cannon.

mistake 2:

2. OWNERSHIP AND OPERATION OF PADDYPOWERPOKER.COM

www.paddypowerpoker.com is operated on behalf of Paddy Power by iPoker Network (Game Park Trading Ltd)

no it is not. iPoker operate an online gaming network, not a website. Anyone who doesn't understand the difference shouldn't be allowed draft this document. And the "ownership" section doesn't say anything about PPP's ownership (AFAIR it's a publicly traded company incorporated in the Isle of Man, in case you're taking notes).

BigCityBanker

Also, whilst im at it.

Can I ask you not to misquote me?

RoundTower wrote: »

Then a PPP rep tells us "nothing to worry about here, it's similar to every other site".

I have no issue with being quoted or challenged on anything here. However, I do take serious issue with being misquoted and quoted out of context. Can I ask you to correct your original post and your misquoting of me? And if you choose not to do this can I ask you to explain why?

Ollieboy

RoundTower wrote: »

even if PPP won't release an unofficial "summary" of the T&C for legal reasons, it wouldn't be difficult to highlight the changes so that anyone who is really interested can find out quickly. Not doing this is basically saying "lol we know no one ever reads this anyway and just clicks Agree as fast as possible to get their gamble on". Then a PPP rep tells us "nothing to worry about here, it's similar to every other site". Not a sign of a company you want to do business with.

just a quick question, do you play on PPP? somehow I doubt it.

dvdfan

wow, if i was to worry so much about every terms and conditions document i agree to i wouldnt have many free hours in the day to do anything else. Do people actually read them for stuff like this? I know for stuff like buyin a house etc we have to pay a solicitor to review these things but for using computer software etc i didnt realise people actually bothered:eek:

Mellor

dvdfan wrote: »

wow, if i was to worry so much about every terms and conditions document i agree to i wouldnt have many free hours in the day to do anything else. Do people actually read them for stuff like this? I know for stuff like buyin a house etc we have to pay a solicitor to review these things but for using computer software etc i didnt realise people actually bothered:eek:

Well that's the problem, nobody reads them.
So there is quite alot of power given to the people that draft them. Based on that, I think its fair to get a heads up on any changes made in return for this trust. And its probably fair to say we all play or played on PPP at some stage.

Ste05

Ollieboy wrote: »

just a quick question, do you play on PPP? somehow I doubt it.

This is irrelevant. I don't play there either, but for the people who do, they are entitled to ask these questions themselves, or have someone else ask the difficult questions if they feel they want to, and try to get answers from whoever might know the answer, PPP don't have to answer the questions if they don't want to.

Roundtower has pointed out mistakes, PPP get business via this forum and can answer questions if they choose to, or say nothing at all.

We don't know if BCB is speaking officially on behalf of PPP or in his personal capacity. But anyone has a right to question a public company, if that company decides to answer the questions or not is completely up to them.

Ste05

dvdfan wrote: »

wow, if i was to worry so much about every terms and conditions document i agree to i wouldnt have many free hours in the day to do anything else. Do people actually read them for stuff like this? I know for stuff like buyin a house etc we have to pay a solicitor to review these things but for using computer software etc i didnt realise people actually bothered:eek:

I won't sign or agree to anything without at least a quick read through what I'm agreeing to. Especially if it's with a company who I'm giving important information such as credit card details and personal information.

Goodluck2me

dvdfan wrote: »

wow, if i was to worry so much about every terms and conditions document i agree to i wouldnt have many free hours in the day to do anything else. Do people actually read them for stuff like this? I know for stuff like buyin a house etc we have to pay a solicitor to review these things but for using computer software etc i didnt realise people actually bothered:eek:

I agree with a lot of what Roundtower is saying tbh. You arent just downloading a bit of software, you are holding your funds with them and they are managing them. would you read the terms of your mortgage?
I remember a few weeks ago someone said they had to PAY a poker site as they left their money with them unused for so long, they the site wanted maintenance fees, this wasnt PPP afair, but these are the types of agreements you have to look for.

Doc Farrell

I'm pretty certain it has something to do with BCB being allowed to runner runner a high hand when chasing the low......

(humour still allowed on boards?)

Noel, i'm gonna start up that HORSE game again soon if you want another shot?

dvdfan

Yeah i know its naieve not to read them but its so widespread everytime you install any peice of software, apply for a credit card, download anything, signup to a newsletter, rent or lease a house etc etc etc and to be honest i dont know if id be any wiser after reading alot of terms and conditions as if there was something dodgy in there there not going to bold and highligh it and all this heirinafter henceforth the said sh1tetalk makes it hard for your run of the mill joe sober to read, if the important points was bullet listed i might bother but im not reading 4 pages of garbage talk i dont understand and if its neccessary in the case of buying a house or something ill pay my solicitor to explain it in laymans terms as im not qualified to fully understand it.

Ollieboy

Ste05 wrote: »

This is irrelevant. I don't play there either, but for the people who do, they are entitled to ask these questions themselves, or have someone else ask the difficult questions if they feel they want to, and try to get answers from whoever might know the answer, PPP don't have to answer the questions if they don't want to.

Roundtower has pointed out mistakes, PPP get business via this forum and can answer questions if they choose to, or say nothing at all.

We don't know if BCB is speaking officially on behalf of PPP or in his personal capacity. But anyone has a right to question a public company, if that company decides to answer the questions or not is completely up to them.

I've no problems with people asking a question from a site or a bank etc, but you can do it in a nice manner. I would also expect that person you raises the question to have a interest in the answer, not go out of his way to create a disagreement for the sake of disgreement which seems to be a lot of peoples problem on this forum. TO MUCH ATTITUDE!!!

and just before RT decide's to attack me on the above reponse, I'm not stating or saying that is the reasons for his questions. Please read my T&C's

Ollieboy

Doc Farrell wrote: »

I'm pretty certain it has something to do with BCB being allowed to runner runner a high hand when chasing the low......

(humour still allowed on boards?)

Noel, i'm gonna start up that HORSE game again soon if you want another shot?

its to do with the amount of badbeats you can have in any sitting, I'm on my 2nd of the day already, so 1 more to go.

Ste05

Ollieboy wrote: »

I've no problems with people asking a question from a site or a bank etc, but you can do it in a nice manner. I would also expect that person you raises the question to have a interest in the answer, not go out of his way to create a disagreement for the sake of disgreement which seems to be a lot of peoples problem on this forum. TO MUCH ATTITUDE!!!

Well the OP asked the question only a few hours ago, I certainly don't think you can say they don't have any interest in the answer??

As for the rest of your post, I'll let RT answer them, but I certainly didn't get the feeling that he was just out for an argument and I think he has raised vary valid questions.

Ollieboy

Ste05 wrote: »

Well the OP asked the question only a few hours ago, I certainly don't think you can say they don't have any interest in the answer??

As for the rest of your post, I'll let RT answer them, but I certainly didn't get the feeling that he was just out for an argument and I think he has raised vary valid questions.

I dont this aggree there valid questions and was wondering the same myself.

Goodluck2me

Ollieboy wrote: »

I don`t disagree they`re valid questions, and I was wondering the same myself.

FYP

themadchef

Ste05 wrote: »

I won't sign or agree to anything without at least a quick read through what I'm agreeing to. Especially if it's with a company who I'm giving important information such as credit card details and personal information.

Hit the nail on the head there. Obviously when i signed up i had a quick read and carried on with the "if its good enough for everyone else" attitude, but the problem is i cant identify whats changed.

Roundtower is right about the summary, would be much easier to understand. but how many people are going to care enough to ask. I just hate agreeing to something i really have no understanding of. Its hit and hope ...a bit like my poker .

Thanks for trying to answer guys but it all boils down to PPP expect us all to click and carry on, they care less if we understand or not. Maybe its one more gamble we're willing to take.....close our eyes and hope for the best!

RoundTower

I haven't played on Paddy Power in some time, I play there occasionally. In fact I've probably raked more on PPP than half the players on this forum. I'll probably play there again if there is a good reason, like exclusive satellites to some event I want to play.

So no I'm not just being argumentative for the sake of it, I'd like the people I do business with to be more transparent and more professional in their business dealings with me.

mickste

Why don't you send ppp an email then outlining all your questions rt. Probably get the answers you're looking for. They probably know you well considering all the rb you have

cardshark202

No rb on ppp, mick

PPP-Pit Boss

Top of the morning. Great craic being had here I see. The update as one of the previous posters states is an IPoker / Playtech update to the t's and c's. I would always recommend reading through terms and conditions before signing off on them. I however tend to be quite (stfu and show me the money). Now a lot of sites would just put a little teeny weeny * at the bottom of a mail and that would be covered. But we put a big popup so you can all see it. Not because its the doomsday of stipulations but to enusre players are aware and agree. All the Ipoker sites have had that bit added to the t's and c's. Here it is so you dont have to route around for it:

Here is the entire kit and kaboodle:

PADDY POWER POKER END-USER AGREEMENT

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY THE FOLLOWING LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN PADDY POWER ENTERTAINMENT LIMITED UNDER THE BRAND NAME OF PADDY POWER POKER AND YOU. BY CLICKING THE "I AGREE" BUTTON BELOW YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT, THE HOUSE RULES AND OUR PRIVACY POLICY [url]HTTP://WWW.PADDYPOWERPOKER.COM/SITE-INFO/TERMS-AND-CONDITIONS.PHP[/url]. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, DO NOT CLICK THE "I AGREE" BUTTON AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO DOWNLOAD, INSTALL OR OTHERWISE USE THE SOFTWARE.
PLEASE READ THE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY AND MAKE SURE YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND ITS CONTENTS. IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS RESULTING FROM THE ACCEPTANCE OF THIS AGREEMENT, PLEASE CONSULT A LEGAL ATTORNEY IN YOUR JURISDICTION.

1 DEFINITIONS
The following words and terms, when used with this agreement, shall have the following meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise.
Poker Room - the poker room and/or any other poker gaming activities offered by us on our Website and on our downloadable version, as listed at http://www.paddypowerpoker.com;
Player Account - a personal account opened by an individual and maintained with us to enable that person to play games on the Poker Room;
Software - the software licensed to us including any program or data file or any other content derived therefrom, that required to be downloaded, accessed or otherwise utilized by you from the Website enabling you to participate in the Poker Room and any other games available for your use;
Username and Password - the username and password which you choose on registration with the Poker Room;
You - the user of the Poker Software downloaded from the Website.
Us/We/Ours - Paddy Power Entertainment Limited, http://www.paddypowerpoker.com;
Website - http://www.paddypowerpoker.com and any related sites accessible via links or any other access way;

2 SUBJECT MATTER OF AGREEMENT
This agreement covers the arrangements between you and us in relation to your use of the Poker Room either for playing play-for-real or play-for-fun Poker and other games. The rules of the games are placed in the http://www.paddypowerpoker.com as well as other sections of the Software and the Website, including but not limited to, rules describing how to play, tournaments, and any other rules governing particular game, event, tournament, all such rules are incorporated and included under the term and conditions set out herein.

3 LEGAL REQUIREMENTS
3.1 You can only use the Poker Room and/or the Website if you are the legal age as determined by the law of the country where you live.
3.2 You cannot use the Poker Room and/or the Website if you are under 18 years of age in any circumstances.
3.3 Some legal jurisdictions have not addressed the legality of online gambling and others have specifically made online gambling illegal. We do not intend that anyone should use the Poker Room and/or the Website where such use is illegal. The availability of the Poker Room and/or the Website does not construe an offer or invitation by us to use the Poker Room in any country in which such use is illegal. Use of the Poker Room is void wherever prohibited by any applicable law. You accept sole responsibility for determining whether your use of the Poker Room is legal in the country where you live.

4 LICENCE TO USE SOFTWARE
We hereby grant to you a personal non-exclusive, non-transferrable right to use the Software, for playing in the Poker Room, in accordance with the following provisions.
4.1 You are not permitted to:
4.1.1 install or load the Software onto a server of other networked device or take other steps to make the Software available via any form of "bulletin board", online service or remote dial-in, or network to any other person;
4.1.2 sub-license, assign, rent, lease, loan, transfer or copy (except as expressly provided elsewhere in this agreement), your licence to use the Software or make or distribute copies of the Software;
4.1.3 translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, modify, create derivative works based on, or otherwise modify the Software;
4.1.4 copy or translate any user documentation provided 'online' or in electronic format;
4.1.5 reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, modify, adapt, translate, make any attempt to discover the source code of the Software or to create derivative works based on the whole or on any part of the Software; or
4.1.6 enter, access or attempt to enter or access or otherwise bypass the Our security system or interfere in any way (including but not limited to, robots and similar devices) with the Poker Room or the Website or attempt to make any changes to the Software and/or any features or components thereof.
4.1.7 You do not own the Software. The Software is owned and is the exclusive property of the licensor, a third party software provider company, (the "Software Provider"). The Software and accompanying documentation which have been licensed to us are proprietary products of the Software Provider and protected throughout the world by copyright law. Your use of the Software does not give you ownership of any intellectual property rights in the Software. This agreement applies only to the grant of the licence to use the Software.
4.1.8 THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES, CONDITIONS, UNDERTAKINGS OR REPRESENTATIONS, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, STATUTORY OR OTHERWISE. WE HEREBY EXCLUDES ALL IMPLIED TERMS, CONDITIONS AND WARRANTIES (INCLUDING ANY OF MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE). WE DO NOT WARRANT THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS.
4.1.9 WE DO NOT WARRANT THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL BE NON-INFRINGING OR THAT THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE ERROR FREE OR UNINTERRUPTED OR THAT ANY DEFECTS IN THE SOFTWARE WILL BE CORRECTED, OR THAT THE SOFTWARE OR THE SERVERS ARE VIRUS-FREE. IN THE EVENT OF COMMUNICATIONS OR SYSTEM ERRORS OCCURING IN CONNECTION WITH THE SETTELMENT OF ACCOUNTS OR OTHER FEATURES OR COMPONENTS OF THE SOFTWARE NIETHER US NOR OUR SOFTWARE PROVIDER WILL BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY COSTS, EXPENSES, LOSSES OR CLAIMS ARISING RESULTING FROM SUCH ERRORS. WE FURTHER RESERVE THE RIGHT IN THE EVENT OF SUCH ERRORS TO REMOVE ALL RELEVANT GAMES FROM THE SOFTWARE AND THE WEBSITE AND TAKE ANY OTHEHR ACTION TO CORRECT SUCH ERRORS.
4.1.10 You hereby acknowledge that it is not in our control how the Software is used by you. You load and use the Software at your own risk and in no event shall we be liable to you for any direct, consequential, incidental or special damage or loss of any kind (except personal injury or death resulting from our negligence).
4.1.11 The Software may include confidential information which is secret and valuable to us. You are not entitled to use or disclose that confidential information other than strictly in accordance with the terms of this agreement.

5 SHARED POKER ROOM NETWORK
5.1 We participate in a shared poker room network which enables you to play poker together with other players from other poker room websites all joining the same game or the table or the tournament through a shared poker room platform managed by a third party provide of poker network services.
5.2 You therefore agree that once you will join a shared poker room you will accept and will comply with the rules and the terms and conditions that apply on the shared poker room including any of its games, tables, tournaments.
5.3 You acknowledge and agree that we and/or the operator of the shared poker network, at our both sole discretion, reserve the right to terminate your game or block your account as well as deny you from accessing the shared poker network, either from the Website or from any other websites thereafter, in the event that you will violate any of the game rules or any of the terms and conditions set out hereunder.
5.4 You further acknowledge and accept that we and/or the operator of the shared poker network, reserve the right, both at our sole discretion, to collect, process and record both in our databases any information in connection with your game patterns, personal data, depositing of funds and any other related information and inquiries that will help prevent any fraud, collusion or alike improper behaviour.

6 SECURITY
6.1 We are a corporation incorporated under the laws of Kahnawake and are fully licensed and regulated by the laws of that country for the purpose of operating a virtual poker room on the internet, under the name http://www.paddypowerpoker.com.
6.2 We only allow access to playing games on the Poker Room through secured networks using encryption of the user name and password. You cannot play games on the Poker Room without passing our customer security login.
6.3 You may not use the Poker Room for any commercial use or on behalf of another person. Any use of the Poker Room by you is for own private purposes only.
6.4 You must keep your Username and Password confidential and should not disclose them to anybody. You may not use anyone else's password. You shall be responsible for all transactions conducted in relation to your Player Account using your Password. Every person who identifies him/herself by entering your correct Username and Password is assumed by us to be you and all transactions where the Username and Password have been entered correctly will be regarded as valid.
6.5 You will not allow any third party to use your Player Account to use the Poker Room and you will not use any other person's Player Account or means of payment to access the Poker Room or the Website or the Software.
6.6 It is your responsibility to ensure that you understand the rules and procedures of the games in the Poker Room and your use of online gaming in general before you play any such games.
6.7 We are using the best methods available today for the encryption of the Username and Password information, and any other sensitive information transferred to and from the client application and our servers, thus securing the Player and us against manipulation attempts by a third party. You will not break in, access or attempt to break in or access or otherwise by-pass our security. If we have a suspicion that you have attempted to or may be attempting to break in, access or otherwise by-pass our security or the Software, we will be entitled to terminate with immediate effect your access to the Poker Room and/or have your account blocked, and we reserve the right to inform the applicable authorities.
6.8 Collusion Prevention
6.8.1 Collusion means a situation where two or more players attempt to earn an unfair advantage by sharing knowledge of their cards or other information at a poker table. Any player who attempts to or colludes with any other player while using the Poker Room will be prohibited from ever using the Poker Room or the Website or the Software or any of our other related services and their player account will be terminated effective immediately. We will do our best to investigate complaints received against players suspected of collusion. If we will suspect of a collusive behaviour during a game, we may, in our sole discretion, terminate the suspected players' access to the Poker Room and/or block their accounts. We will not be liable under any circumstances whatsoever for any loss you or any other player may accrue as a result of the collusive or otherwise unlawful activity and we will not be further obliged to take any other actions in any event of suspected of collusion, fraudulent or fraud.
6.8.2 We will only use your personal information in accordance with our Privacy Policy, which is set out in full at http://www.paddypowerpoker.com/site-info/terms-and-conditions.php. We reserve the right to amend the Privacy Policy at any time. However, we reserve the right to ask you to provide us with additional details and any such additional information will be kept confidential. We further reserve the right under certain circumstances to disclose certain details to relevant authorities should it be required to do so by law, an arm of the state or a regulatory body. Subject to the provisions of the privacy policy, this right to disclose personal information to bodies or authorities whose purpose is to investigate money laundering, fraud and other criminal activity will be to the extent required by law.

7 YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES
7.1 We make no representation or warranty with respect to the legality or otherwise of the accessing and use of the Poker Room in your country of residence and it is solely your responsibility to determine whether such accessing and use of the Poker Room by you is legal. We further warrant in that respect that it does not intend to enable you to contravene any applicable law.
7.2 You shall not transfer in any way whatsoever your rights under this agreement without our prior written consent.
7.3 You are fully responsible for all taxes, fees and other costs incidental to and arising from winnings resulting from use of the Poker Room.
7.4 It is your responsibility to inform us of any changes to your registration details.
7.5 Payments
7.5.1 You agree that we or a payment processing company on our behalf will handle all financial account transactions ("Payment Processor"). You hereby agree that the Payment Processor reserves the right to withhold any payments should the Payment Processor have reason to believe or any suspicion that you may be engaging in or have engaged in fraudulent, collusion, unlawful, or improper activity.
7.5.2 You agree to fully pay any and all payments due to us or any third party in connection with your use of the Poker Room. You further agree not to make any charge-backs and/or renounce or cancel or otherwise reverse any of your due payments and in any such event you will refund and compensate us for such unpaid payments including any expenses incurred by us in the process of collecting your payment.
7.5.3 [You are aware of and agree that the maximum amount that a new Player can cash-out when winning $20,000 or more in casino games within a 30 day period, is $5000 per month.]
7.6 You accept that you are solely responsible for the supply and maintenance of all of the computer equipment and telecommunications networks and internet access services that you need to use in order to access the Poker Room. We will not be liable in any way whatsoever for any loss caused to you by the internet or any telecommunication service provider which you have engaged in order to access to the Poker Room or to the Website.
7.7 You acknowledge that our random number generator will determine the outcome of the games played on the Poker Room and you accept the outcomes of all such games. You further agree that in the unlikely event of a disagreement between the result that appears on the Software and the game server, the result that appears on the game server will prevail and you acknowledge and agree that our records will be the final authority in determining the terms and circumstances of your participation in the Poker Room games and related gaming activity.
7.8 You will not commit any acts or display any conduct that damages our reputation or our software provider or any other related service providers.
7.9 You acknowledge that if your Player Account is opened you will fully indemnify us and hold us harmless from and against all and any losses, costs, expenses, claims, demands, liabilities and damages however caused that may arise as a result of your (a) entry, use, or reuse of the Website or the Poker Room; (b) breach of any of the terms and provisions of this agreement. You further agree to fully indemnify, defend and hold us and our officers, directors, employees, agents, contractors and suppliers harmless, from and against all claims, liabilities, damages, losses, costs and expenses, including legal fees, arising out of any breach of this Agreement by you, and any other liabilities arising out of your use of the Poker Room or the Software.
7.10 We reserve the right to change this agreement from time to time as set out in clause 9 below. It is your responsibility to check from time to time and see whether there is a notification of change in accordance with clause 9 below.

8 YOUR WARRANTIES AND REPRESENTATIONS
You warrant and represent that:
8.1 you are not a resident of Kahnawake, Israel, Cyprus, Estonia, Bulgaria and The United States of America and its territories;
8.2 you are acting on your own behalf;
8.3 you are not restricted by limited legal capacity;
8.4 you are not classified as a compulsive gambler;
8.5 all details which you give or have given in the process of registering with the Online Poker Room are accurate and that you will continue to update such details should there be any changes.
8.6 you are fully aware of the fact that there is a risk of losing money through the use of the Software to play games on the Poker Room;
8.7 you are not depositing funds originating from criminal and/or un-authorised activities;
8.8 you are not otherwise conducting criminal activities and/or intending to utilise the Player Account in connection with such activities. You are not using or intending to use or intending to allow any other person to use the Poker Room and the Player Account for any prohibited or unlawful activity, including but not limited to, fraud or money laundering, under any applicable law in particular your jurisdiction and the laws that apply to us;
8.9 you are not colluding or attempting to collude or intending to participate, directly or indirectly, in any collusion scheme with any other player in the course of any game you play or will play on the Poker Room.
8.10 you are not under the age of either (i) 18; or (ii) the age at which gambling activities are legal under the law of the jurisdiction that applies to you, whichever is greater;
8.11 the debit/credit card details supplied by you in the registration process are those of the registered account holder and the card has not been reported as lost or stolen;
8.12 you are not one of our officer, director, employee, consultant or agent or of one of our affiliated or subsidiary companies, or suppliers or vendors, and you are not any of their relatives as well (for the purpose of this clause, the term "relative" means spouse, partner, parent, child or sibling). In any event that you have breached this prohibition, among others actions that will be taken against you, you will not be entitled to any of your winnings.
8.13 you have not previously held a Player Account which was suspended or terminated either by us or by any other online gaming operator, charged back any monies via a Player Account or maintains a current Player Account; and
8.14 in opening the Player Account you will not provide any information or make any statement to us which is untrue, false, incorrect or misleading.

9 CHANGES TO THIS AGREEMENT OR THE PRIVACY POLICY
9.1 We may, at our sole discretion, make changes to this agreement or the House Rules or Privacy Policy at any time.
9.2 The changes will take effect from the date specified when they occur. It is important, therefore, that you log in to the Website from time to time and check to see whether there is a notification of change. You are solely responsible for reading the changes.
9.3 If you continue to use the Website or the Poker Room after we have updated the changes (regardless to the way we have notified of such changes), you agree to be bound by those changes whether or not you have had actual notice of, or have read, the relevant changes. If you do not agree to be bound by relevant changes, you should not continue to use the Website or the Poker Room any further.

10 RESERVATION OF RIGHTS
10.1 We reserve, at our sole discretion, the right to:
10.1.1 refuse to register any applicant for registration on the Website or the Poker Room.
10.1.2 refuse to accept any wager on the Poker Room;
10.1.3 change, suspend, remove, modify or add any game or tournament on the Poker Room.
10.2 We reserve the right to make checks on you, including credit checks, with third party credit and financial institutions, in accordance with the information you have provided us with.
10.3 In the event of any dispute regarding a wager or winnings, our decision will be final and binding. We reserve the right to reasonably withhold any pay out or winning amount until the identity of the winning person is verified to our satisfaction in order to ensure that payment of the winning amount is being made to the correct person.
10.4 We may at any time disclose certain personal information of yours to third parties in accordance with our Privacy Policy, which is set out in full at http://www.paddypowerpoker.com/site-info/terms-and-conditions.php.
10.5 In the event that we will suspect fraud or fraudulent activity on your part or any of your payments are charged back, we will have the right to withhold any pay-out or winning amounts due to you and if necessary, to lawfully collect any payments owed by you.
10.6 We may at any time without prior notice to you terminate your use of the Poker Room and block your Player Account if it considers that you are in breach of any of the terms and provisions of this Agreement or that you are otherwise acting illegally. We will not be under any obligation in such circumstances to refund or otherwise reimburse you for any of the funds in your Player Account.
10.7 We reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to offer and advertise from time to time promotions, bonuses or other special offers and each such offer will be subject to specific terms and conditions which will be valid for a limited period of time. In connection with the specific terms of the above promotions, bonus and special offers, we further reserve the right to withhold any withdrawal amount from your account which will be in excess of your original deposit. In addition, we reserve the right to withhold or otherwise decline or reverse any pay-out or winning amount or amend any policy in the event that we suspect that you are abusing or attempting to abuse any of the following: (i) bonuses; (ii) other promotions; or (iii) specific policy or rules determined in respect of an existing game or a new game.
10.8 We reserve the right to transfer, assign, sublicense or pledge this Agreement, in whole or in part, to any person without notice and you will be deemed to consent to such assignment.

11 TERM
This agreement is effective from the moment of acceptance by clicking on the "I agree" button, and shall remain in force indefinitely unless terminated in accordance with clause 10.6. For the avoidance of doubt it is agreed that you are bound by this Agreement if you use the Poker Room or the Website or the Software in any way, including, but not limited to, initiating or making a deposit through your Account or submitting your deposit details to us.

12 GOVERNING LAW
12.1 The construction, validity and performance of this agreement will be governed by Kahnawake law. However, this shall not prevent us from bringing any action in the court of any other jurisdiction for injunctive or similar relief. The English language version of this Agreement will prevail over any other language version issued by us.
12.2 The illegality, invalidity or enforceability of any part of this agreement will not affect the legality, validity or enforceability of the remainder.

13 NOTICES
13.1 You agree to receive communications from us in an electronic form. Electronic communications may be posted on the pages within the Website and/or the messages/help files of your client application, and/or delivered to your e-mail address. All communications in either electronic or paper format will be considered to be in "writing" and to have been received no later than five business days after posting or dissemination, whether or not you have received or retrieved the Communication. We reserve the right, but assume no obligation, to provide communications in paper format.
13.2 Any notices required to be given in writing to us or any questions concerning this Agreement should be addressed to poker@paddypower.com.












END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
IMPORTANT
THIS WEBSITE IS OPERATING THE GAMING SOFTWARE PLATFORM (THE “SOFTWARE”) OF PLAYTECH SOFTWARE LIMITED (THE “VENDOR”) UNDER A LICENSE FROM VENDOR. A CONDITION TO YOUR DOWNLOADING OR OTHREWISE USING THIS SOFTWARE IS THAT YOU ENTER INTO THE FOLLOWING LEGALLY BINDING SUB-LICENSE AGREEMENT WITH US, WHICH GOVERNS YOUR USE OF THE SFOTWRAE.
PLEASE READ THIS AGREEMENT CAREFULLY, TO MAKE SURE YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND ITS CONTENT. IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS RESULTING FROM THE ACCEPTANCE OF THIS AGREEMENT, PLEASE CONSULT AN ATTORNEY OR OTHER LEGAL ADVISOR IN YOUR JURISDICTION.
BY CLICKING THE “I AGREE” BUTTON BELOW YOU AGREE TO THE USE OF ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS IN ORDER TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS, AND YOU WAIVE ANY RIGHTS OR REQUIREMENTS UNDER APPLICABLE LAWS OR REGULATIONS IN ANY JURISDICTION WHICH REQUIRE AN ORIGINAL (NON-ELECTRONIC) SIGNATURE, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED UNDER APPLICABLE MANDATORY LAW; YOU ALSO CONFIRM THAT YOU HAVE READ THIS AGREEMENT AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, DO NOT CLICK THE “I AGREE” BUTTON AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO DOWNLOAD, INSTALL OR OTHERWISE USE THE SOFTWARE.
1. DEFINITIONS
The following words and terms, when used in this Agreement, shall have the following meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:
1.1. “Online Casino” means Our internet gaming system on the Website, and related services and gaming activities (including, but not limited to, online casino, online bingo, online poker and any other games) offered on the Website.
1.2. “Software” means the software required to be downloaded, accessed or otherwise utilized by You from the Website for the purpose of participating in the Online Casino, including the related documentation and including any enhancements, modifications, additions, translations or updates to such software.
1.3. “You”, “Your” and similar terms mean the user of the Software downloaded from the Website.
1.4. “Us”, “We”, “Our” and similar terms mean [ LICENSEE].
1.5. “Website” means www.[]casino.com, and any related sites on which the Online Casino is operated and are accessible via links or any other access way.
1.6. “IP Rights” means any and all intellectual property rights, of all types or nature whatsoever, including, without limitation, patent, copyright, design rights, trade marks, data base rights, applications for any of the above, moral rights, know-how, trade secrets, domain names, URL, trade names or any other intellectual or industrial property rights (and any licenses in connection with any of the same), whether or not registered or capable of registration, and whether subsisting in any specific country or countries or any other part of the world.


2. LICENCE TO USE THE SOFTWARE; RESTRICTIONS
2.1. We hereby grant to you a limited, personal, non-transferable, non-exclusive, worldwide (except as noted below) license to download, access and otherwise utilize the Software on Your computer, for the sole purpose of participating in the Online Casino.
2.2. This license applies only to the Object Code of the Software (i.e., the compiled, assembled, or machine executable version of the Software) and does not grant you any rights whatsoever with respect to the source code of the Software.
2.3. In addition, this license does not apply to certain territories, identified by us from time to time; currently, this license does not apply to the United States, Israel, Antigua and Barbuda, Netherlands Antilles, Estonia and Cyprus, and IT IS YOUR DUTY TO CONSULT AND CHECK REGULARLY OUR WEBSITE REGARDING THE LIST OF THE EXCLUDED TERRITORIES.
2.4. We reserve any and all rights not expressly granted in Section 2.1 above. In addition, You are not permitted to, and You agree not to permit or assist others to:
2.4.1. use, copy, modify, create derivative works from or distribute the Software, any part of it, or any copy, adaptation, transcription, or merged portion of it;
2.4.2. decode, reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or otherwise translate or convert the Software or any part of it;
2.4.3. transfer, loan, lease, assign, rent, or otherwise sublicense the Software;
2.4.4. remove any copyright, proprietary or similar notices from the Software (or any copies of it);
2.4.5. operate the Software or any part of it for the benefit of or on behalf of any third party, including by way of “bulletin board”, online service or remote dial-in, application service provider services, internet service provider services, timesharing arrangements, outsourcing services or bureau services; or
2.4.6. copy or translate any user documentation provided online or in electronic format.
2.5. You acknowledge and agree that the all IP Rights, title and interest in and to the Software, including in and to any modification, enhancement, adaptation, translation or other change of or addition to the Software, belong exclusively to the Vendor, even if developed based on ideas, suggestions or proposals by You or any other third party. You irrevocably assign to the Vendor all right, title, and interest You may have or may acquire in and to all such rights, including, without limitation, patent, copyright, trademark, trade secret or know how, and You agree to sign and deliver to the Vendor such documents as Vendor considers desirable to evidence or effect the assignment of all of the aforesaid rights to the Vendor. You agree not to, directly or indirectly, attempt to invalidate for any reason whatsoever, or assert, or assist the assertion by others, that the rights, title or interest in the Software belong to any third party other than the Vendor, or that they infringe the IP Rights of others.
3. YOUR DUTY TO EXAMINE LEGALITY OF USE
You confirm that You are older than 18 years, and in any event of legal age as determined by the laws of the country where you live. You also confirm that You are aware of the legal issues relating to the operation of online gambling sites, and that You understand that We and the Vendor are not warranting in any way or manner that the use of the Software for the purposes of gambling, as such term is commonly understood in the industry, is legal in any jurisdiction.
Given the changes in the legal requirements in the various jurisdictions, You undertake to examine the legality of Your participation on the Online Casino and use of the Software in each jurisdiction that is applicable to You and to do the same only in compliance with all applicable laws and orders of any competent authority.
4. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES
THE SOFTWARE IS MADE AVAILABLE TO YOU HEREUNDER ON AN “AS IS” BASIS, WITHOUT ANY UNDERTAKINGS, WARRANTIES OR REPRESENTATIONS, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, STATUTORY OR OTHERWISE.

WE AND THE VENDOR, AND ALL OF THEIR AFFILIATES AND RELATED PARTIES, HEREBY EXCLUDE AND DISCLAIM ANY AND ALL IMPLIED TERMS, CONDITIONS AND WARRANTIES (INCLUDING ANY WARRNATY OF MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE), AND, WITHOUT LIMITING THE GENERALITY OF THE AFORESAID, WE DO NOT WARRANT, AMONG OTHER THINGS, THAT (A) THE SOFTWARE WILL BE NON-INFRINGING, OR THAT (B) THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT ANY DEFECTS IN THE SOFTWARE WILL BE CORRECTED, OR THAT THE SOFTWARE IS VIRUS-FREE; OR THAT (C) THE SOFTWARE IS OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY OR FIT FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE; OR THAT (D) USE BY YOU OF THE SOFTWARE WITH ANY OTHER SOFTWARE, OR WITH INAPPROPRIATE HARDWARE, WILL NOT CAUSE ANY DISTURBANCE TO THE SOFTWARE OR TO SUCH OTHER SOFTWARE.

IN THE EVENT OF COMMUNICATIONS OR SYSTEM ERRORS OCCURING IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE, NEITHER WE NOR THE VENDOR NOR THEIR AFFILIATES AND RELATED PARTIES WILL BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY COSTS, EXPENSES, LOSSES OR CLAIMS ARISING OR RESULTING FROM SUCH ERRORS.

NEITHER WE NOR OUR AFFILIATES AND RELATED PARTIES WILL BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR PAYMENTS MADE TO YOU AS A RESULT OF A DEFECT OR ERROR IN THE SOFTWARE, OR IN CONNECTION WITH ANY CLAIM OR DEMAND MADE BY THE VENDOR OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR THE RETURN OF SUCH PAYMENTS OR OTHERWISE IN CONNECTION WITH SUCH PAYMENTS.

5. CONFIDENTIALITY
The Software includes non-public and confidential information, which is secret and valuable to Us or the Vendor. You agree, as long as You use the Software and thereafter, to (a) keep all such confidential information strictly confidential; (b) not to disclose such confidential information to a third party, and not to use such confidential information for any purpose other than participating in the Online Casino. You further agree to take all reasonable steps at all times to protect and keep confidential such confidential information.
6. YOUR WARRANTIES AND REPRESENTATIONS
You warrant and represent to Us that:
6.1. You are not a resident of any of the excluded territories listed in Section 2.1 above; and
6.2. You have examined the legality of Your participation on the Online Casino and use of the Software in each jurisdiction that is applicable to You, and have found the same to be legal is such jurisdictions under all applicable laws and orders of any competent authority.
7. CHANGES TO THIS AGREEMENT
7.1. We may make changes to this Agreement at any time, at our sole discretion. Such changes will take effect from the date specified by us on the Website, whether or not we have notified you specifically of such changes. It is important, therefore, that You log in to the Website from time to time to check to see whether there is a notification of change.
7.2. You agree to be solely responsible for becoming informed of such changes. If You continue to use the Website or the Online Casino after the effective date of certain changes (regardless of the way we have notified such changes), You agree to be bound by those changes whether or not You have had actual notice of, or have read, the relevant changes. If You do not agree to be bound by relevant changes, You should not continue to use the Website or the Online Casino any further.
8. TERM AND TERMINATION
8.1. This agreement is effective, and binding upon You, from the moment of Your acceptance by clicking on the “I agree” button, and shall remain in force unless terminated in accordance with the provisions hereof.
8.2. You may terminate this Agreement with immediate effect at any time, subject to the terms of clause 8.4. Termination by You shall be effected by sending us written notice of the termination of Your participation on the Website and the Online Casino and closure of your account with Us.
8.3. We may terminate this Agreement with immediate effect at any time, by written notice to You.
8.4. Upon any termination of this Agreement, whether by Us or by You, You agree and acknowledge that (i) Your rights to use the Software shall immediately terminate, and (ii) You will cease any and all use of the Software, and (iii) You will remove the Software from your computer, hard drives, networks and other storage material.
9. NO CLAIMS AGAINST VENDOR; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
9.1. You understand and agree that We will be solely responsible to You under this Agreement, and while your commitments under this Agreement are also for the benefit of the Vendor, its affiliates and related parties (and can therefore be enforced by them too), Vendor, its affiliates and related parties are not parties to this Agreement and will not be liable for any damages of any kind whatsoever caused to You or any third party, regardless of the form of action, whether in contract, tort (including negligence), strict liability or otherwise.
9.2. You are free to choose whether to download and use the Software. If You do so, You acknowledge that You do it with the full understanding of this Agreement, including the provisions of this Section 9, and at your own risk. IN NO EVENT SHALL WE (AND FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT, ALSO VENDOR) OR ANY OF THEIR AFFILIATES AND RELATED PARTIES, IN AGGREGATE:
9.2.1. BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGE OR LOSS OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER; OR LOSS OF BUSINESS, PROFITS, REVENUE, CONTRACTS OR ANTICIPATED SAVINGS; OR LOSS OR DAMAGE ARISING FROM LOSS, DAMAGE OR CORRUPTION OF ANY DATA; or
9.2.2. BE LIABLE TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO ANY AND ALL CLAIMS AT ANY AND ALL TIMES ARISING FROM OR RELATING TO THIS AGREEMENT, HOWSOEVER ARISING UNDER CONTRACT OR ANY THEORY OF LAW, FOR DAMAGES EXCEEDING THE LOWER OF (A) THE AMOUNT DEPOSITED BY YOU WITH US AND USED BY YOU FOR GAMING PURPOSES, OR (B) EURO 1,000 (ONE THOUSAND EURO).
10. GENERAL PROVISIONS
10.1. Governing Law. The construction, validity and performance of this Agreement will be governed by the laws of England.
10.2. Competent Courts. Any legal proceedings arising out of or relating to this Agreement will be subject to the jurisdiction of the courts of London, England. However, this shall not prevent Us from bringing any action in the court of any other jurisdiction for injunctive or similar relief.
10.3. Severability. The illegality, invalidity or enforceability of any part of this Agreement will not affect the legality, validity or enforceability of the remainder.
10.4. Language. The English language version of this Agreement will prevail over any other language version issued by us.
10.4.1. No assignment by You. You are not allowed to assign this Agreement or any rights or obligation hereunder to any other party.
10.4.2. Priority. This Agreement shall prevail in the event of any conflict between the terms and conditions herein and any other agreement or document referred to herein or used in connection with the Software.
10.4.3. Notices. You agree to receive communications from us in an electronic form. Electronic communications may be posted on the pages within the Website or the messages/help files of your client application, or delivered to your e-mail address. All communications in either electronic or paper format will be considered to be in "writing" and to have been received no later than five business days after posting or dissemination, whether or not you have received or retrieved such communication. We reserve the right, but assume no obligation, to provide communications in paper format. Any notices required to be given in writing to us or any questions concerning this Agreement should be addressed to [email]support@[]casino.com[/email].

IF YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ALL OF THE ABOVE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, PLEASE INDICATE YOUR AGREEMENT BY CLICKING THE “I AGREE” BUTTON BELOW.

Ste05

Is it possible for you to comment on any changes that have been brought in?

It's understandable if you can't for legal reasons, but even something like a reference to the relevant sections or a brief comment with huge disclaimers.

Samba

i don't recall the updated t's and c's being so long. Could we get the text that was simply in the pop up when logging in.

I had a quick read through them (albeit on Noble so they could differ but unlikely)

One point really caught my eye.

Somthing to the effect that you agree the RNG is secure and is certified.


Theoritically speaking if it were to become compromised you would not have a leg to stand on that's a comorting thought.... for ipoker



Im pretty sure this was network wide and there is clearly a reason why these terms and conditions were updated, don't think we'll find out why but you might try sending ipoker a mail directly RT rather than contacting PPP.

PPP-Pit Boss

PPP-Pit Boss wrote: »

END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
IMPORTANT
THIS WEBSITE IS OPERATING THE GAMING SOFTWARE PLATFORM (THE “SOFTWARE”) OF PLAYTECH SOFTWARE LIMITED (THE “VENDOR”) UNDER A LICENSE FROM VENDOR. A CONDITION TO YOUR DOWNLOADING OR OTHREWISE USING THIS SOFTWARE IS THAT YOU ENTER INTO THE FOLLOWING LEGALLY BINDING SUB-LICENSE AGREEMENT WITH US, WHICH GOVERNS YOUR USE OF THE SFOTWRAE.
PLEASE READ THIS AGREEMENT CAREFULLY, TO MAKE SURE YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND ITS CONTENT. IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS RESULTING FROM THE ACCEPTANCE OF THIS AGREEMENT, PLEASE CONSULT AN ATTORNEY OR OTHER LEGAL ADVISOR IN YOUR JURISDICTION.
BY CLICKING THE “I AGREE” BUTTON BELOW YOU AGREE TO THE USE OF ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS IN ORDER TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS, AND YOU WAIVE ANY RIGHTS OR REQUIREMENTS UNDER APPLICABLE LAWS OR REGULATIONS IN ANY JURISDICTION WHICH REQUIRE AN ORIGINAL (NON-ELECTRONIC) SIGNATURE, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED UNDER APPLICABLE MANDATORY LAW; YOU ALSO CONFIRM THAT YOU HAVE READ THIS AGREEMENT AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, DO NOT CLICK THE “I AGREE” BUTTON AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO DOWNLOAD, INSTALL OR OTHERWISE USE THE SOFTWARE.
1. DEFINITIONS
The following words and terms, when used in this Agreement, shall have the following meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:
1.1. “Online Casino” means Our internet gaming system on the Website, and related services and gaming activities (including, but not limited to, online casino, online bingo, online poker and any other games) offered on the Website.
1.2. “Software” means the software required to be downloaded, accessed or otherwise utilized by You from the Website for the purpose of participating in the Online Casino, including the related documentation and including any enhancements, modifications, additions, translations or updates to such software.
1.3. “You”, “Your” and similar terms mean the user of the Software downloaded from the Website.
1.4. “Us”, “We”, “Our” and similar terms mean Paddy Power Entertainment Limited, http://www.paddypowerpoker.com
1.5. “Website” means http://www.paddypowerpoker.com, and any related sites on which the Online Casino is operated and are accessible via links or any other access way.
1.6. “IP Rights” means any and all intellectual property rights, of all types or nature whatsoever, including, without limitation, patent, copyright, design rights, trade marks, data base rights, applications for any of the above, moral rights, know-how, trade secrets, domain names, URL, trade names or any other intellectual or industrial property rights (and any licenses in connection with any of the same), whether or not registered or capable of registration, and whether subsisting in any specific country or countries or any other part of the world.


2. LICENCE TO USE THE SOFTWARE; RESTRICTIONS
2.1. We hereby grant to you a limited, personal, non-transferable, non-exclusive, worldwide (except as noted below) license to download, access and otherwise utilize the Software on Your computer, for the sole purpose of participating in the Online Casino.
2.2. This license applies only to the Object Code of the Software (i.e., the compiled, assembled, or machine executable version of the Software) and does not grant you any rights whatsoever with respect to the source code of the Software.
2.3. In addition, this license does not apply to certain territories, identified by us from time to time; currently, this license does not apply to the United States, Israel, Antigua and Barbuda, Netherlands Antilles, Estonia and Cyprus, and IT IS YOUR DUTY TO CONSULT AND CHECK REGULARLY OUR WEBSITE REGARDING THE LIST OF THE EXCLUDED TERRITORIES.
2.4. We reserve any and all rights not expressly granted in Section 2.1 above. In addition, You are not permitted to, and You agree not to permit or assist others to:
2.4.1. use, copy, modify, create derivative works from or distribute the Software, any part of it, or any copy, adaptation, transcription, or merged portion of it;
2.4.2. decode, reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or otherwise translate or convert the Software or any part of it;
2.4.3. transfer, loan, lease, assign, rent, or otherwise sublicense the Software;
2.4.4. remove any copyright, proprietary or similar notices from the Software (or any copies of it);
2.4.5. operate the Software or any part of it for the benefit of or on behalf of any third party, including by way of “bulletin board”, online service or remote dial-in, application service provider services, internet service provider services, timesharing arrangements, outsourcing services or bureau services; or
2.4.6. copy or translate any user documentation provided online or in electronic format.
2.5. You acknowledge and agree that the all IP Rights, title and interest in and to the Software, including in and to any modification, enhancement, adaptation, translation or other change of or addition to the Software, belong exclusively to the Vendor, even if developed based on ideas, suggestions or proposals by You or any other third party. You irrevocably assign to the Vendor all right, title, and interest You may have or may acquire in and to all such rights, including, without limitation, patent, copyright, trademark, trade secret or know how, and You agree to sign and deliver to the Vendor such documents as Vendor considers desirable to evidence or effect the assignment of all of the aforesaid rights to the Vendor. You agree not to, directly or indirectly, attempt to invalidate for any reason whatsoever, or assert, or assist the assertion by others, that the rights, title or interest in the Software belong to any third party other than the Vendor, or that they infringe the IP Rights of others.
3. YOUR DUTY TO EXAMINE LEGALITY OF USE
You confirm that You are older than 18 years, and in any event of legal age as determined by the laws of the country where you live. You also confirm that You are aware of the legal issues relating to the operation of online gambling sites, and that You understand that We and the Vendor are not warranting in any way or manner that the use of the Software for the purposes of gambling, as such term is commonly understood in the industry, is legal in any jurisdiction.
Given the changes in the legal requirements in the various jurisdictions, You undertake to examine the legality of Your participation on the Online Casino and use of the Software in each jurisdiction that is applicable to You and to do the same only in compliance with all applicable laws and orders of any competent authority.
4. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES
THE SOFTWARE IS MADE AVAILABLE TO YOU HEREUNDER ON AN “AS IS” BASIS, WITHOUT ANY UNDERTAKINGS, WARRANTIES OR REPRESENTATIONS, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, STATUTORY OR OTHERWISE.

WE AND THE VENDOR, AND ALL OF THEIR AFFILIATES AND RELATED PARTIES, HEREBY EXCLUDE AND DISCLAIM ANY AND ALL IMPLIED TERMS, CONDITIONS AND WARRANTIES (INCLUDING ANY WARRNATY OF MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE), AND, WITHOUT LIMITING THE GENERALITY OF THE AFORESAID, WE DO NOT WARRANT, AMONG OTHER THINGS, THAT (A) THE SOFTWARE WILL BE NON-INFRINGING, OR THAT (B) THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT ANY DEFECTS IN THE SOFTWARE WILL BE CORRECTED, OR THAT THE SOFTWARE IS VIRUS-FREE; OR THAT (C) THE SOFTWARE IS OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY OR FIT FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE; OR THAT (D) USE BY YOU OF THE SOFTWARE WITH ANY OTHER SOFTWARE, OR WITH INAPPROPRIATE HARDWARE, WILL NOT CAUSE ANY DISTURBANCE TO THE SOFTWARE OR TO SUCH OTHER SOFTWARE.

IN THE EVENT OF COMMUNICATIONS OR SYSTEM ERRORS OCCURING IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE, NEITHER WE NOR THE VENDOR NOR THEIR AFFILIATES AND RELATED PARTIES WILL BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY COSTS, EXPENSES, LOSSES OR CLAIMS ARISING OR RESULTING FROM SUCH ERRORS.

NEITHER WE NOR OUR AFFILIATES AND RELATED PARTIES WILL BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR PAYMENTS MADE TO YOU AS A RESULT OF A DEFECT OR ERROR IN THE SOFTWARE, OR IN CONNECTION WITH ANY CLAIM OR DEMAND MADE BY THE VENDOR OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR THE RETURN OF SUCH PAYMENTS OR OTHERWISE IN CONNECTION WITH SUCH PAYMENTS.

5. CONFIDENTIALITY
The Software includes non-public and confidential information, which is secret and valuable to Us or the Vendor. You agree, as long as You use the Software and thereafter, to (a) keep all such confidential information strictly confidential; (b) not to disclose such confidential information to a third party, and not to use such confidential information for any purpose other than participating in the Online Casino. You further agree to take all reasonable steps at all times to protect and keep confidential such confidential information.
6. YOUR WARRANTIES AND REPRESENTATIONS
You warrant and represent to Us that:
6.1. You are not a resident of any of the excluded territories listed in Section 2.1 above; and
6.2. You have examined the legality of Your participation on the Online Casino and use of the Software in each jurisdiction that is applicable to You, and have found the same to be legal is such jurisdictions under all applicable laws and orders of any competent authority.
7. CHANGES TO THIS AGREEMENT
7.1. We may make changes to this Agreement at any time, at our sole discretion. Such changes will take effect from the date specified by us on the Website, whether or not we have notified you specifically of such changes. It is important, therefore, that You log in to the Website from time to time to check to see whether there is a notification of change.
7.2. You agree to be solely responsible for becoming informed of such changes. If You continue to use the Website or the Online Casino after the effective date of certain changes (regardless of the way we have notified such changes), You agree to be bound by those changes whether or not You have had actual notice of, or have read, the relevant changes. If You do not agree to be bound by relevant changes, You should not continue to use the Website or the Online Casino any further.
8. TERM AND TERMINATION
8.1. This agreement is effective, and binding upon You, from the moment of Your acceptance by clicking on the “I agree” button, and shall remain in force unless terminated in accordance with the provisions hereof.
8.2. You may terminate this Agreement with immediate effect at any time, subject to the terms of clause 8.4. Termination by You shall be effected by sending us written notice of the termination of Your participation on the Website and the Online Casino and closure of your account with Us.
8.3. We may terminate this Agreement with immediate effect at any time, by written notice to You.
8.4. Upon any termination of this Agreement, whether by Us or by You, You agree and acknowledge that (i) Your rights to use the Software shall immediately terminate, and (ii) You will cease any and all use of the Software, and (iii) You will remove the Software from your computer, hard drives, networks and other storage material.
9. NO CLAIMS AGAINST VENDOR; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
9.1. You understand and agree that We will be solely responsible to You under this Agreement, and while your commitments under this Agreement are also for the benefit of the Vendor, its affiliates and related parties (and can therefore be enforced by them too), Vendor, its affiliates and related parties are not parties to this Agreement and will not be liable for any damages of any kind whatsoever caused to You or any third party, regardless of the form of action, whether in contract, tort (including negligence), strict liability or otherwise.
9.2. You are free to choose whether to download and use the Software. If You do so, You acknowledge that You do it with the full understanding of this Agreement, including the provisions of this Section 9, and at your own risk. IN NO EVENT SHALL WE (AND FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT, ALSO VENDOR) OR ANY OF THEIR AFFILIATES AND RELATED PARTIES, IN AGGREGATE:
9.2.1. BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGE OR LOSS OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER; OR LOSS OF BUSINESS, PROFITS, REVENUE, CONTRACTS OR ANTICIPATED SAVINGS; OR LOSS OR DAMAGE ARISING FROM LOSS, DAMAGE OR CORRUPTION OF ANY DATA; or
9.2.2. BE LIABLE TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO ANY AND ALL CLAIMS AT ANY AND ALL TIMES ARISING FROM OR RELATING TO THIS AGREEMENT, HOWSOEVER ARISING UNDER CONTRACT OR ANY THEORY OF LAW, FOR DAMAGES EXCEEDING THE LOWER OF (A) THE AMOUNT DEPOSITED BY YOU WITH US AND USED BY YOU FOR GAMING PURPOSES, OR (B) EURO 1,000 (ONE THOUSAND EURO).
10. GENERAL PROVISIONS
10.1. Governing Law. The construction, validity and performance of this Agreement will be governed by the laws of England.
10.2. Competent Courts. Any legal proceedings arising out of or relating to this Agreement will be subject to the jurisdiction of the courts of London, England. However, this shall not prevent Us from bringing any action in the court of any other jurisdiction for injunctive or similar relief.
10.3. Severability. The illegality, invalidity or enforceability of any part of this Agreement will not affect the legality, validity or enforceability of the remainder.
10.4. Language. The English language version of this Agreement will prevail over any other language version issued by us.
10.4.1. No assignment by You. You are not allowed to assign this Agreement or any rights or obligation hereunder to any other party.
10.4.2. Priority. This Agreement shall prevail in the event of any conflict between the terms and conditions herein and any other agreement or document referred to herein or used in connection with the Software.
10.4.3. Notices. You agree to receive communications from us in an electronic form. Electronic communications may be posted on the pages within the Website or the messages/help files of your client application, or delivered to your e-mail address. All communications in either electronic or paper format will be considered to be in "writing" and to have been received no later than five business days after posting or dissemination, whether or not you have received or retrieved such communication. We reserve the right, but assume no obligation, to provide communications in paper format. Any notices required to be given in writing to us or any questions concerning this Agreement should be addressed to support@paddypowerpoker.com.

IF YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ALL OF THE ABOVE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, PLEASE INDICATE YOUR AGREEMENT BY CLICKING THE “I AGREE” BUTTON BELOW.

EDIT; Here is the full transcript of additions to the existing client terms and conditions.



I am double checking but I am 99% certain the above "End User Agreement" section.

PPP-Pit Boss

Samba wrote: »

i don't recall the updated t's and c's being so long. Could we get the text that was simply in the pop up when logging in.

I had a quick read through them (albeit on Noble so they could differ but unlikely)

One point really caught my eye.

Somthing to the effect that you agree the RNG is secure and is certified.


Theoritically speaking if it were to become compromised you would not have a leg to stand on that's a comorting thought.... for ipoker



Im pretty sure this was network wide and there is clearly a reason why these terms and conditions were updated, don't think we'll find out why but you might try sending ipoker a mail directly RT rather than contacting PPP.

Having been on the receiving end of enough "Your site is rigged" phonecalls "Im going to my lawyer" "You should all be shot" "I hope you die in a forest fire" I would have thought Samba that you might have a better idea why such a t and c would be there!

Samba

Of course i understand however this gives ipoker too much protection imo.

In the very unlikely event of a security breach within ipoker customers no longer have any protection.

All financial responsibility would lie with the customer.

From a customers POV this is not a comforting disclaimer to agree to.

I would not be too quick to tell a customer questioning integrity that irregardless of his/her opinion that they waivered any right to question the integrity of the RNG.......


The conditions have a more sinister side, that may not have been the initial intention when updating the terms but none the less i find it quite dubious that after x amount of years as an established operator that only now they decide to introduce this.

Perhaps this was in light of recent events on other poker sites which is understandable.


The risk of any such breach is mimimal but if any such breach occured i have no rights.

The thread title is misleading also, should be renamed to Ipoker and not Paddy Power.

PPP-Pit Boss

T's and C's protect us in extreme circumstances. Do you really think PPP would stand idly by if we felt there was wrongdoing? we havent in the past so why would you think any different.
No-one is compelled to agree to the t's and c's one does so by choice. I am sure if you put other t's and c's beside Ipokers you would find very little difference between them.
I for one fail to see the point of debating them at all, agree or disagree this is your right at the time.
Youre right about the thread name.. but I think the OP was just speaking from the what was in front of him perspective.
I will let you debate about it amougnst yourselves, unless you think I have anything else to add to the discussion?

Ollieboy

PPP-Pit Boss wrote: »

T's and C's protect us in extreme circumstances. Do you really think PPP would stand idly by if we felt there was wrongdoing? we havent in the past so why would you think any different.
No-one is compelled to agree to the t's and c's one does so by choice. I am sure if you put other t's and c's beside Ipokers you would find very little difference between them.
I for one fail to see the point of debating them at all, agree or disagree this is your right at the time.
Youre right about the thread name.. but I think the OP was just speaking from the what was in front of him perspective.
I will let you debate about it amougnst yourselves, unless you think I have anything else to add to the discussion?

Sorry to say, but there is no such thing as trust between customers and a list company. History as always prove that, the money comes first.

But I'll agree that PPP have been fair to customer at every given chance.

RoundTower

hi Pit boss,

one itty bitty question. Why do the T&C you copy and pasted above bear no relation whatsoever to the T&C linked on your website at http://www.paddypowerpoker.com/site-info/terms-and-conditions.php?

RoundTower

Samba wrote: »

In the very unlikely event of a security breach within ipoker customers no longer have any protection.

All financial responsibility would lie with the customer.

also, is this correct, pitboss? Or is Samba misconstruing the T&C?

I'm not too comforted to see that another PPP representative has come out to say (and this time I'm not paraphrasing, BCB, I'm quoting) "I am sure if you put other t's and c's beside Ipokers you would find very little difference between them." Shure all the sites ask you to agree to that, don't worry about that it's just a legal formality.

RoundTower

bump since I see Pitboss is posting elsewhere

karlh

there sure is a lot of time on a lot of hands....

PPP-Pit Boss

RoundTower wrote: »

hi Pit boss,

one itty bitty question. Why do the T&C you copy and pasted above bear no relation whatsoever to the T&C linked on your website at http://www.paddypowerpoker.com/site-info/terms-and-conditions.php?

The set on the software are "client t's and c's", essentially these are Playtech / Ipoker terms. The set on the webiste are PPP / PP terms and conditions. There are also "Tournament T's and C's". All t's and c's both webiste and client are referred to when "agreeing".

PPP-Pit Boss

RoundTower wrote: »

also, is this correct, pitboss? Or is Samba misconstruing the T&C?

I'm not too comforted to see that another PPP representative has come out to say (and this time I'm not paraphrasing, BCB, I'm quoting) "I am sure if you put other t's and c's beside Ipokers you would find very little difference between them." Shure all the sites ask you to agree to that, don't worry about that it's just a legal formality.

He refers to the user agreeing that the RNG is certified and fair as being possibly used in order to permit a security breach. This is absolutely not so. The users are asked to agree that the RNG is certified and fair because it is.

This terms covers us against the endless calls and emails we get threatenting legal action as "My AA was beaten by XX too many times" etc etc I am suing you type of customer issue.

Samba

PPP-Pit Boss wrote: »

He refers to the user agreeing that the RNG is certified and fair as being possibly used in order to permit a security breach.

Where did I say that these t's and c's were put in to place so to permit a security breach?

Of course that's not the case. What i said is correct from a legal standpoint

RoundTower

PPP-Pit Boss wrote: »

He refers to the user agreeing that the RNG is certified and fair as being possibly used in order to permit a security breach. This is absolutely not so. The users are asked to agree that the RNG is certified and fair because it is.

This terms covers us against the endless calls and emails we get threatenting legal action as "My AA was beaten by XX too many times" etc etc I am suing you type of customer issue.

I don't get this. If the RNG is fair you don't risk being sued even if you don't have these T&C. So are you saying that if the RNG isn't fair, the users are out of luck because they've agreed that it is fair?

tricky D

No even slightly smart security vendor will currently take liability for loss due to any breach involving their products or derivatives, like RNG's. Liability is passed to the end user. It is a result of the way security products and threats develop, racing against each other to stay ahead. This non-liability is industry standard, despite a dumb debate which is failing to alter this. If that makes you uncomfortable, you should seriously consider stopping using the Internet immediately, nevermind poker sites, financial institutions etc. Actually, RNG's are so pervasive, perhaps reverting to precomputing might be prudent. PP/iP are just covering themselves in the very unlikely event of the RNG being compromised or being discovered not be sufficiently random from some undiscovered flaw. Remember the y2k 'bug' - should the person who decided to only use 2 digits be liable? No the law isn't dumb enough to be that impractical.

Secondly, PP/iP have been good enough to alert users to the changes, many institutions we use often wouldn't bother (t&c's may change without notice is common).

Lastly, poker operations spend a fortune (1-ish million euro/month) on certifying their RNG's every month and get heavily and regularly audited by each of their financial transaction providers - the very ones used every day in the real world. Go figure....

Samba

tricky D wrote: »

Lastly, poker operations spend a fortune (1-ish million euro/month) on certifying their RNG's every month and get heavily and regularly audited by each of their financial transaction providers - the very ones used every day in the real world. Go figure....

I've wasted enough time on this thread but im sorry to say the above statement is laughable and simply is not the case.