Coasting

WindSock

Is hovering over the clutch regarded as coasting? Also, how can a tester know that you are hovering? I'd imagine it would be very hard to see.

Wishbone Ash

boreds wrote: »

Is hovering over the clutch regarded as coasting?

No - coasting is travelling with the clutch pedal depressed when it's not necessary.

boreds wrote:

how can a tester know that you are hovering? I'd imagine it would be very hard to see.

Make a point of taking you foot away from the pedal and placing it to the side.

Dr Lektroluv

Another thing, if you are 1st in a line of traffic stopped at red lights, it's ok to have the clutch pressed in and in 1st gear (With the handbrake up) - this is not considered 'coasting' even though it is having the clutch pressed in 'unnecessarily' so to speak.

1huge1

Ya when I first started getting lessons, the first thing my instructor noticed was that I was coasting, when coming to a roundabout for example, I braked by putting my leg down on the clutch fully then pressing the break. I don't know it was just a state of mind.

Get out of the habit fast if you are doing it.

Wishbone Ash

Dr Lektroluv wrote: »

Another thing, if you are 1st in a line of traffic stopped at red lights, it's ok to have the clutch pressed in and in 1st gear (With the handbrake up) - this is not considered 'coasting' even though it is having the clutch pressed in 'unnecessarily' so to speak.

No, that is not 'coasting'.

'Coasting' is moving more than a few metres, with the clutch pedal depressed.

Jumpy

1huge1 wrote: »

Ya when I first started getting lessons, the first thing my instructor noticed was that I was coasting, when coming to a roundabout for example, I braked by putting my leg down on the clutch fully then pressing the break. I don't know it was just a state of mind.

Get out of the habit fast if you are doing it.

Its caused by fear of stalling. I used to do it when learning as well.

WindSock

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

No, that is not 'coasting'.

'Coasting' is moving more than a few metres, with the clutch pedal depressed.

Even if you are slowing down approaching stopped or slow moving traffic in 1st or 2nd gear?

Wishbone Ash

boreds wrote: »

Even if you are slowing down approaching stopped or slow moving traffic in 1st or 2nd gear?

No - I meant the practise of pressing the clutch pedal while in top gear and 'free wheeling' up to a stop. Some people tend to do it when they are learning to drive.

j1979p

Is this the best way to stop?:

At 35 mph and in 4th gear you see stationary traffic ahead (300m) so you gently press the brake down to about 20 mph then go into 2nd gear. Then gently brake in 2nd until car nearly stalls then depress clutch and brake at same time. (clutch in for no longer than 2-3 seconds).

givyjoe81

I thought coasting was taking the car out of gear and just letting the momentum of the car take you to the traffic lights, just using the break to bring you to a stop? Let's say im doing 50km/h and come to the lights, i would break til at 20, just before the car starts to stutter and then clutch, is this correct yeah? My instructor picked up on that fairly early on, i kept clutching to early.

Oh and i do not change gear at all, just break til 20 then clutch, once stopped then i take the car out of gear.

bonkey

j1979p wrote: »

Is this the best way to stop?:

Ohhh.....I can see a "holy war" coming on this one

(For those who haven't been following the forum, there's been much disagreement over this topic!)

Here's my tuppence...

At 35 mph and in 4th gear you see stationary traffic ahead (300m) so you gently press the brake down to about 20 mph then go into 2nd gear. Then gently brake in 2nd until car nearly stalls then depress clutch and brake at same time. (clutch in for no longer than 2-3 seconds).

With an older car, you may be best advised to work your way down through the gears.
With a modern car, its generally considered unnecessary. I'm not sure, but I think that if you have a car where you have no issues doing 4th-to-2nd for stopping (i.e.the car isn't old enough for this to strain the synch on the clutch), then you probably don't need to downshift at all.

In the situation described, I would brake from 4th to a stop without changing gears. I would need to gradually declutch for maybe the last 5m of braking distance, with the car declutched (i.e. coasting) for less than 2m. of that. I would do the same from 5th.

The only time I would downshift is if the situation changed and I would no longer need to come to a stop (e.g. traffic began to move again).

Jumpy

bonkey wrote: »

Ohhh.....I can see a "holy war" coming on this one

(For those who haven't been following the forum, there's been much disagreement over this topic!)

Here's my tuppence...



With an older car, you may be best advised to work your way down through the gears.
With a modern car, its generally considered unnecessary. I'm not sure, but I think that if you have a car where you have no issues doing 4th-to-2nd for stopping (i.e.the car isn't old enough for this to strain the synch on the clutch), then you probably don't need to downshift at all.

In the situation described, I would brake from 4th to a stop without changing gears. I would need to gradually declutch for maybe the last 5m of braking distance, with the car declutched (i.e. coasting) for less than 2m. of that. I would do the same from 5th.

The only time I would downshift is if the situation changed and I would no longer need to come to a stop (e.g. traffic began to move again).

I always downshift to second before stopping. If you need to move for any reason (ambulance, crazy driver etc) then fourth will stall you.
The Australian test requires that you move through them individually before stopping at lights or a roundabout (5,4,3,2,1) however second is normally enough for most cars when stopping (then change to first at your leisure)

givyjoe81

Jumpy wrote: »

I always downshift to second before stopping. If you need to move for any reason (ambulance, crazy driver etc) then fourth will stall you.
The Australian test requires that you move through them individually before stopping at lights or a roundabout (5,4,3,2,1) however second is normally enough for most cars when stopping (then change to first at your leisure)

Can you not stop in any gear provided you clutch in time? ie before the car starts to shudder/stall?

Coala

i never did coasting- i press in quick and gently release all the time and on my test and anyway tester put grade 3 for cluch use. I dont know how else is possible to use it.

bonkey

Jumpy wrote: »

If you need to move for any reason (ambulance, crazy driver etc) then fourth will stall you.

Whereas if you need to move while the car is between 5th and 4th, 4th and 3rd or 3rd and 2nd (i.e. when the car is out of gear whilst downshifting) you will suffer the same problem, suffering the added exposure of having only one hand to steer at the time and (in at least 2 of the 3 cases) being at higher speeds.

In either case, its hard to envisage a real threat.

Ambulances don't materialise out of nowhere, bearing down on your position, where the difference between "downshift whilst switching from brake to accelerator" and "switch from brake to accelerator" will really be significant, or where the fraction of time that the car is out of gear is going to be significant.

Jumpy

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Can you not stop in any gear provided you clutch in time? ie before the car starts to shudder/stall?

Yep you can, but unless you coasted or made an emergency stop, then you would stall at fourth or third before you reached a speed to stop safely.

Jumpy

Coala wrote: »

i never did coasting- i press in quick and gently release all the time and on my test and anyway tester put grade 3 for cluch use. I dont know how else is possible to use it.

Coasting is a bad habit you can pick up from stalling too much.

wil

Jumpy wrote: »

Coasting is a bad habit you can pick up from stalling too much.

Coasting is a dangerous bad habit, leads to serious accidents.
Next door neighbour wrote off her boyfs car coasting in to a pole outside the gate.
Most modern cars wont stall in any gear until you are at a quite low speed.
Main reason for changing down is to be in the correct gear for continuing or moving off again.
If you have to constantly declutch to prevent stalling, you are probably in wrong gear. Riding the clutch wears it out.
I dont think there is any one method that suits all situations, so changing down or not will be dependent on your driving conditions and situation developing around you.
Brakes are spelt "brakes", anything else is "broken"

bonkey

Jumpy wrote: »

Yep you can, but unless you coasted or made an emergency stop, then you would stall at fourth or third before you reached a speed to stop safely.

What do you consider coasting? As I said above, my car will travel less than 2m from having the clutch fully depressed to when it is at a complete standstill. That is in 4th or 5th gear.

Do you consider 2m to be coasting? I can pretty-much guarantee that no matter how fast you change gears, at higher speeds you are travelling far more than 2m with the car out of gear.

j1979p

wil wrote: »

If you have to constantly declutch to prevent stalling, you are probably in wrong gear. Riding the clutch wears it out.

Speaking about wearing things out, does anybody know if travelling at very low speeds in high gears (i.e. when the car starts to shudder) has any damaging effect on the clutch and/or engine?

Seems to me like the car is really straining and is not good for it. Could this be even worse than riding the clutch in that it affects both clutch mechanism and engine?

givyjoe81

j1979p wrote: »

Speaking about wearing things out, does anybody know if travelling at very low speeds in high gears (i.e. when the car starts to shudder) has any damaging effect on the clutch and/or engine?

Seems to me like the car is really straining and is not good for it. Could this be even worse than riding the clutch in that it affects both clutch mechanism and engine?

Eh not sure, asked my mate the same question, know a bit more than me about cars but i think he mentioned something about the engine shuddering out of position or something, or breaking free from whatever is holding it in place, sorry but i dont remember exactly what he said, but id would imagine continuously doing this would cause some serious damage. Just a guess mind.

Caychadh

I know if you're about to stop in a higher gear the car will shudder and you need to clutch sooner.. but I thought this wasn't coasting because you have your foot on the brake too. Am I wrong?
Also going (5)-4-3-2-1 when approaching lights.. maybe it's because I'm only learning at the moment, but there just doesn't seem to be enough time?!

bonkey

Caychadh wrote: »

I know if you're about to stop in a higher gear the car will shudder and you need to clutch sooner.

This is technically known as "getting it wrong", a category which includes bunny-hopping the car when taking off, stalling on a hill-start, crashing into stuff, etc.

In general, "getting it wrong" will be unhealthy for something.

. but I thought this wasn't coasting because you have your foot on the brake too. Am I wrong?

Coasting is travelling for any extended distance out of gear. It doesn't matter whether you're braking or not, its the being out of gear that is relevant.

There's a fine line to be trodden here. Changing gears is smoother if you leave the car out of gear for a second or two before re-engaging. This isn't considered coasting....up to some undefined point.

In my experience, the temptation to coast (when I was learning) happened when I switched gears coming into / going through a corner (which was normally "getting it wrong" in the first place), or when I was braking to a halt (which was because I didn't know the behaviour of my car's engine well enough at that point, and was worried about stalling )

Also going (5)-4-3-2-1 when approaching lights.. maybe it's because I'm only learning at the moment, but there just doesn't seem to be enough time?!

There may not always be enough time, no matter how good you are.
Also - I don't know whether its just the way you wrote, or what you actually do, but you probably shouldn't be switching down to first, even if you go down through the gears whilst braking to a stop.

j1979p

bonkey wrote: »

This is technically known as "getting it wrong", a category which includes bunny-hopping the car when taking off, stalling on a hill-start, crashing into stuff, etc.

In general, "getting it wrong" will be unhealthy for something.

I understand your opinon that damage may be taking place only when it starts to shudder (i.e. getting it wrong). But I wonder is it a black and white thing or is constantly driving the car in high gears at low speed, even without any noticable shuddering, generally going to place greater loads on the engine and wear it our sooner than normal?

bonkey wrote: »

There's a fine line to be trodden here. Changing gears is smoother if you leave the car out of gear for a second or two before re-engaging.

Isn't it impossible to change gears without having the car out of gear at some stage?! Not quite sure what you're saying here.

Morgans

on coasting again.

If you are in a line of traffic turning left or right at a junction, and maybe one car is being "let go" at a time, i tend to move off in first gear and usually, it is barely a car length between i have to depress the clutch fully again.

Is this coasting? Should I learn a different method before my test?

cson

Lately I've been going down through the gears whilst braking, is this ok to do? I mean I'm still in full control of the car right?

wil

cson No this should be OK. It does depend a bit on the rate of braking eg how hard you have to brake or how gently. In gentle braking you might gear down in order until second, in hard braking you would probably skip gears as you wouldnt have time to go through all the gears. It really depends on whether you are just slowing or stopping. Again, you would almost never gear to first in normal course of driving, only when moving off. You might on a very steep hill but very few that steep around here.

Morgans - no this sounds OK, doesnt sound like coasting, unless you are out of gear (clutch down or gear in neutral) while moving for more than a few metres at low speed.

j1979p - I think what bonkey was referring to here is a more advanced method to give a smoother drive when reengaging the clutch. If you are still at the stage where you are not finding the right gears easily and smoothly then your gear change speed may not be quick enough as you would be out of gear longer than would be deemed safe. Concentrate on quick smooth gear changes first. Yes you are right, every time you change gears you are out of gear for a short period, you should try to do this fairly quickly. The latest high tech automatic tiptronic systems in some sports cars can do all this in about 1/10 of a second. Only rally drivers might get near that.

stewarpm

My instructor told me that you don't need to change down for stopping at lights.
She also said that it is fine to move from say 4th to 2nd as long as you aren't using the gears as brakes and are slowing appropriately with the brakes. The thing that I make a mistake over is not slowing down/changing down to 2nd fast enough before a corner...I end up coasting then...hoping I don't do it on the test on Thursday.

Loveless

stewarpm wrote: »

My instructor told me that you don't need to change down for stopping at lights.

Yeah I remember being told this as well, but it just never seemed 'right' to me. I'm driving eight years now and I will always be down to first gear by the time I come to a stop.

Alanstrainor

stewarpm wrote: »

My instructor told me that you don't need to change down for stopping at lights.
She also said that it is fine to move from say 4th to 2nd as long as you aren't using the gears as brakes and are slowing appropriately with the brakes. The thing that I make a mistake over is not slowing down/changing down to 2nd fast enough before a corner...I end up coasting then...hoping I don't do it on the test on Thursday.

Okay, i'll just say that i think it's bad practise not to change down when coming to a stop at lights, you're supposed to change down through the gears to benefit from the braking of the engine as well as the brakes, also stopping in fourth would result in some serious coasting. And as for turning corners, change down well in advance to what you're doing now as you're obviously doing it too late. Good luck on thursday!;)

BlackWizard

cson wrote: »

Lately I've been going down through the gears whilst braking, is this ok to do? I mean I'm still in full control of the car right?

I've been doing that the odd time now and then. Don't recall exactly when I would do it, but I remember thinking this is probably a bad habit.

But apparently not, thanks Wil!

macplaxton

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Okay, i'll just say that i think it's bad practise not to change down when coming to a stop at lights, you're supposed to change down through the gears to benefit from the braking of the engine as well as the brakes, also stopping in fourth would result in some serious coasting. And as for turning corners, change down well in advance to what you're doing now as you're obviously doing it too late. Good luck on thursday!;)

Disagree. That's very old school - taught back in the days of poor brakes. Coming to a definite stop in 4th would be fine.

Gears to go. Brakes to slow.

I was taught 17 years ago in the UK that brake pads were cheaper than gearboxes. The only time you would use engine braking was on going down steep descents.

If you add up all the coasting you're a doing in each gear change down, then it probably amounts to more than the slightly earlier point at which you'd depress the clutch coming to a halt in fourth.

Scottie99

wil wrote: »

Coasting is a dangerous bad habit, leads to serious accidents.
Next door neighbour wrote off her boyfs car coasting in to a pole outside the gate.
Most modern cars wont stall in any gear until you are at a quite low speed.
Main reason for changing down is to be in the correct gear for continuing or moving off again.
If you have to constantly declutch to prevent stalling, you are probably in wrong gear. Riding the clutch wears it out.
I dont think there is any one method that suits all situations, so changing down or not will be dependent on your driving conditions and situation developing around you.
Brakes are spelt "brakes", anything else is "broken"

Seems to me your neighbours boyfriends problem was a steering one

prodigal_son

I learnt quite recently, and they still want you to stop in second, however there are different reasons for it now, although engine braking is still important and even today for an emergency stop you have to wait till the last second to press the clutch as the engine assists with the braking.

Simply put, you stop in second as its easier to continue moving if the light turns green or the traffic starts moving. Youre in a "ready to go" position and they like this.

They dont like you coming to a stop in a high gear, and then snatching it into second at the last minute to keep going, they see this as potentially dangerous.

Coasting is any time you have momentum without the engine power going to the wheels. Taking too long on the clutch while changing gear is coasting.

Its not hard to do a smoother quicker gear change, just practice doing the whole lot that little bit quicker.

bonkey wrote: »

What do you consider coasting? As I said above, my car will travel less than 2m from having the clutch fully depressed to when it is at a complete standstill. That is in 4th or 5th gear.

Do you consider 2m to be coasting? I can pretty-much guarantee that no matter how fast you change gears, at higher speeds you are travelling far more than 2m with the car out of gear.

Thats coasting, Ideally they prefer you to push the clutch in at the point of stopping, not before.

In the ideal example, you go down to second, either through 3rd or by skiping it, and then gently on the brakes, as the engine struggles, thats where you stop, by pushing the brake down further with the clutch.

The first few times doing it, you will nearly panic for fear of stalling, but after you do it a few times, it makes sense, and it becomes second nature. But after a while you will be timing your stops 2m further on, and wont be coasting.

dugout16

Dr Lektroluv wrote: »

Another thing, if you are 1st in a line of traffic stopped at red lights, it's ok to have the clutch pressed in and in 1st gear (With the handbrake up) - this is not considered 'coasting' even though it is having the clutch pressed in 'unnecessarily' so to speak.

Is this definately ok?

dugout16

dugout16 wrote: »

Is this definately ok?

It is not only ok, it is what they want you to do at the head of the queue.
Coasting is moving with the clutch unnecessarily depressed.

dugout16

And what if you were the second car in the line...what is the correct procedure?

dugout16

dugout16 wrote: »

And what if you were the second car in the line...what is the correct procedure?

Handbreak and out of gear.

The reason you do it, is so that you can get away quickly when the lights turn.
The second driver has time to get ready while your pulling away.

dugout16

Thanks, and what about a situation like this....you're moving in a long slow moving line of traffic. Say you're moving a few metres at a time, then maybe stopping for a few seconds and moving on a few metres again. During the few seconds that you stop what should you do? would it be ok to stay in 1st gear with handbreak?

chris85

dugout16 wrote: »

Thanks, and what about a situation like this....you're moving in a long slow moving line of traffic. Say you're moving a few metres at a time, then maybe stopping for a few seconds and moving on a few metres again. During the few seconds that you stop what should you do? would it be ok to stay in 1st gear with handbreak?

If stopped for a few seconds just press the foorbrake and go into first only after stopping (i.e. stop in any other gear than first)

dugout16

and is it ok then just to be stopped there with the clutch pressed, in first gear and foot on brake? No need for handbrake?

chris85

dugout16 wrote: »

and is it ok then just to be stopped there with the clutch pressed, in first gear and foot on brake? No need for handbrake?

if for a few seconds. You are going to be moving in a second so would take longer engaging handbrake and all that. You dont need to apply the handbrake everytime you stop.