Dont worry lads the IRFU are on the case...

toomevara

So they've begun the post mortem on the stinking cadaver that was the Irish WC campaign, will probably be an entirely cosmetic and totally toothless exercise but if anything positive were to come from the shambles that was RWC 2007 what would it be....?

padser

A top class coach.


And while we are in the realms of fantasy - maybe a front row?? That would be nice:D

Chucky the tree

The importantance of having a SQUAD of players who having good international experience. EOS lack of rotation throughout his tenure has been criminal.

davyjose

Chucky the tree wrote: »

EOS lack of rotation throughout his tenure has been criminal.

And when he did, it was an even bigger disaster. He brought Carney to the world cup (Ireland's answer to Andy Faz) and after spending a couple of years blooding Bowe, ditches him.
His treatment of Humphries was despicable, and ultimately backfired when ROG fell apart at this years tournament.
And he brought one semi-injured open-side, when Gleeson was having arguably his best season with Leinster.

Criminal!

the_syco

Was hands before all matches, to remove the butter from their hands... or figure out other ways to get rid of the "butterfingers" from the lads...?

Jeebus, man, the amount of "catch the f**king ball from two feet away" drops that happened ensured that we got f**k all.

Well, that, or simply passing the ball to the team, and letting them have a clear path all the way through...:mad:

toomevara

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The importantance of having a SQUAD of players who having good international experience. EOS lack of rotation throughout his tenure has been criminal.

Spot on for me, that must be the key lesson, and we need a coach who understands that modern professional rugby is about 22, maybe even 30, men, not 15...

Does anyone know if there's any specific reason, beyond cussedness, on EOS' part why irish squad selection has been so poor..is there a systemic problem here?

I'm thinking specifically of the Reddan affair, i.e. a guy deemd to be third in the pecking order suddenly leapfrogs his way into the team and is clearly seen to be, far and away, a better scrum-half than his colleagues...what is going on here, how blind do you have to be and what as a coach are you thinking to deny this player a clearly deserved place in the match day XV? Sigh......

davyjose

toomevara wrote: »

I'm thinking specifically of the Reddan affair, i.e. a guy deemd to be third in the pecking order suddenly leapfrogs his way into the team and is clearly seen to be, far and away, a better scrum-half than his colleagues...what is going on here, how blind do you have to be and what as a coach are you thinking to deny this player a clearly deserved place in the match day XV? Sigh......

In fairness the Munster coaching staff obviously made the same error.
I think the case with Reddan was that he simply improved an awful lot, and it took a while for Eddie to realise this (i.e. after everybody else did)

toomevara

davyjose wrote: »

In fairness the Munster coaching staff obviously made the same error.
I think the case with Reddan was that he simply improved an awful lot, and it took a while for Eddie to realise this (i.e. after everybody else did)

Reckon you're dead right davyjose, just think there's a cultural problem in Irish rugby.Once a guy gets his hands on a shirt, he's constantly given the benefit of the doubt, whereas in England/France/Sa etc... it's very different(just read about, say Leo Cullen's experience with Leicester, one bad game and he's demoted to the A team the following weekend, same with any other name no matter how well-known).

That's why teams like leicester do so well, form is everything, reputation/ relationships with coaches etc... mean nothing. We need a good dose of that at all levels in Irish rugby.

nacho libre

In Irish rugby you are not judged to be only as good as last your game because of the lack of strength depth in most positions- bar the back row and at scrum- half.

il gatto

I'm glad the IRFU have taken it on themselves to do this report, and fairly promptly. If it's as concise as they're saying, it may do some good. For all their mistakes, at least they haven't gone about things in the way the FAI would (or have, actually). It remains to be seen if there's any positives to come out of it, but at least they haven't just buried their heads in the sand and hoped it'd go away. I think they realise that they owe the fans some answers.

EOS to go and a new world class coach to be put in his place. The amount of faults was shocking:


- Failure to develop squad depth since RWC 2003.

- His failures to win at least one grand slam out of the 3 years we won triple crowns, wasted our best ever team and made them go down in history with our worst ever RWC performance.

- Failure to see that Reddan was a feasible option.

- The way he allowed ROG to dictate that the 10 jersey was his, and thus retired Humphries........worked out well didnt it.

- Quinlan, Ferris, Carney...........Im sure there's more, Im tired and cant think......why did he waste their time?

- Geordan Murphygate

- Failure to drop underperforming players. One example that sticks in my mind was the lineout being a calamity and he didnt even look at bringin in MOK, who while having the lhysicality of a wet paper bag, is a genius of a lineout practitioner.

- Failure to make substitutions at critical parts of games. For example, Georgia were counter rucking us off the park and he didnt bring on Best, our best counter rucker on until about 9 or 10 minutes to go.

- Bad gameplans and lack of a plan B. Especially evident against Argentina.

- Heaping blame onto the players and away from himself (Murphy)

- The visibly horrendous levels of fitness of our players.

- The fact that we used less players than any other team at the tournament.

nacho libre

Deleted User wrote: »

EOS to go and a new world class coach to be put in his place. The amount of faults was shocking:


- Failure to develop squad depth since RWC 2003.

- His failures to win at least one grand slam out of the 3 years we won triple crowns, wasted our best ever team and made them go down in history with our worst ever RWC performance.

- Failure to see that Reddan was a feasible option.

- The way he allowed ROG to dictate that the 10 jersey was his, and thus retired Humphries........worked out well didnt it.

- Quinlan, Ferris, Carney...........Im sure there's more, Im tired and cant think......why did he waste their time?

- Geordan Murphygate

- Failure to drop underperforming players. One example that sticks in my mind was the lineout being a calamity and he didnt even look at bringin in MOK, who while having the lhysicality of a wet paper bag, is a genius of a lineout practitioner.

- Failure to make substitutions at critical parts of games. For example, Georgia were counter rucking us off the park and he didnt bring on Best, our best counter rucker on until about 9 or 10 minutes to go.

- Bad gameplans and lack of a plan B. Especially evident against Argentina.

- Heaping blame onto the players and away from himself (Murphy)

- The visibly horrendous levels of fitness of our players.

- The fact that we used less players than any other team at the tournament.

stop! i can't bear it anymore. the stats released by the IRFU from the games are atrocious too. i'll be amazed if this guy gets the lions job now.

ColinJennings

Eh...if he gets the Lions gig, that might be his get out clause of the IRFU.

Sabre0001

ColinJennings wrote: »

Eh...if he gets the Lions gig, that might be his get out clause of the IRFU.

Unfortunately not...His contract allows for this position and he will be able to take a year out to take care of the Lions job.

However, with White linked to England and Gatland to Wales, he could have quite a bit of competition all of a sudden!

Goodluck2me

This thread is purely hear-say on what he did wrong, surely you would need to be in the camp to know. ill reserve judgement until the report comes out, we have no idea how certain partnerships work or mayeb redden, and all the other names put forward were underperforming in training.
I very much doubt EOS didnt put out what he thought was the best team, and didnt just go with the status quo.

dub_skav

I thought Brian O'Driscoll's comments about Leinster were interesting.

He said something along the lines of - it's great being back training with Leinster, everybody enjoys it etc.

Not sure if it was meant this way but it seemd like an expression of relief to be back with Leinster and out of the Irish camp.

Purely conjecture on my part of course, just got me thinking.

toomevara

goodluck2me wrote: »

ill reserve judgement until the report comes out, we have no idea how certain partnerships work or mayeb redden, and all the other names put forward were underperforming in training.

Good luck to you but it'll be nothing but a whitewash, turkeys don't generally, in my experience, vote for Christmas...Unfortunately EOS will stumble on to the next WC barring an absolutely disastrous six nations.

goodluck2me wrote: »

I very much doubt EOS didnt put out what he thought was the best team, and didnt just go with the status quo.

Agreed, he definitly put out what he 'thought' was his best team, it's just that his innately conservative coaching style didnt allow the man to accept the evidence of his eyes i.e. his stategy and tactics were wrong and some of the better/form players were left on the bench. We dont need a report to tell us this,we all saw it with our own eyes. His protestations of ignorance were laughable, a total, and in my opinion, cowardly, abrogation of his responsibility as coach.

The events of this weekend's Heineken cup are a further damning indictment of EOS's ability as a coach. Players back in their provincial camps seem happier, more comfortable and most importantly, better, than while under O'Sullivan's Aegis. This, if nothing else, clearly shows EOS ineptitude as coach....

dub_skav

toomevara wrote: »

The events of this weekend's Heineken cup are a further damning indictment of EOS's ability as a coach. Players back in their provincial camps seem happier, more comfortable and most importantly, better, than while under O'Sullivan's Aegis. This, if nothing else, clearly shows EOS ineptitude as coach....

Not to mention the excellent performance of the overlooked Quinlan

Stev_o

dub_skav wrote: »

Not to mention the excellent performance of the overlooked Quinlan

And Malcolm O Kelly.

Other then that nothing drastic happened, the two main players who jumped in form after that RWC are O Gara and D'arcy.

The fact is that most of the bench players now are on fire

Crash

Possibly the least disciplined man on the pitch though, for munster on saturday. Quinlans always had a problem with keeping his hands and feet to himself.

dub_skav

çrash_000 wrote: »

Possibly the least disciplined man on the pitch though, for munster on saturday. Quinlans always had a problem with keeping his hands and feet to himself.

True, but if your team are lacking passion and effort he's a great man to bring on to shake them up. We all know that, but Eddie doesn't like taking risks

Crash

I'd agree with you that quinlan plays some fantastic rugby, he just gets very lucky that he doesn't get sent off half the time - he's VERY liberal with the boot, has gotten in trouble for stamping numerous times, and gave away some silly pointless penalties saturday.

razorblunt

You could almost go as far as saying Quinlan is a liability to a team guaranteed 3-6points for the opposition. He destroyed someones knee last year because they were offside in a rolling maul.

toomevara

razorblunt wrote: »

You could almost go as far as saying Quinlan is a liability to a team guaranteed 3-6points for the opposition. He destroyed someones knee last year because they were offside in a rolling maul.

I'd agree, but all seriously competitive teams have a player like Quinlan, plays on the margins and consequently gets pinged. Frankly I'd take the 3-6 point hit to have him on the field in top form. A monumental performance on Saturday, good to see hunger and commitment bordering on the reckless..too much discipline and self control can be a bad thing..ask France..

toomevara

Hmmm what the hell is going on? With England, among others, about to publish their respective world cup review, where's the, no doubt, magnificent post-mortem, sorry, report, allegedly due to be furnished by the rugby titans at the IRFU....

If I might mis-quote Elmer Fudd ; "It's vewy, vewy quiet...."

Is this a classically Irish solution to a very Irish problem..i.e. lets run with Browne's hilarious 'blip' theory and hope the saps who support and shell out for the Irish team let us limp on to the 6N's and forget all about it......

shoegirl

davyjose wrote: »

In fairness the Munster coaching staff obviously made the same error.
I think the case with Reddan was that he simply improved an awful lot, and it took a while for Eddie to realise this (i.e. after everybody else did)

Not entirely true. Munster rotate probably far more than any other province, and less out of need than Leinster do. If anything, they are by far the best side in the country for rotating younger and less experienced players carefully. Its been very much one of their strengths.

Just look at how shot the current Leinster team is in the triple injury situation. They are in a far worse position than Munster, despite the absence of O'Connell and Keogh.

Diamondmaker

shoegirl wrote: »

Not entirely true. Munster rotate probably far more than any other province, and less out of need than Leinster do. If anything, they are by far the best side in the country for rotating younger and less experienced players carefully. Its been very much one of their strengths.

Just look at how shot the current Leinster team is in the triple injury situation. They are in a far worse position than Munster, despite the absence of O'Connell and Keogh.

I noted this fact in the past but the "rotation" often does not happen a few at a time, it appears to me, more of a rest a bunch of senior guys for the H Cup games rathjer than rotation for the junior players sake. The "rotataion" always happens en masse, prior to HCup or other bigger games.

This system last year resulted in a very poor ML standing which devalues the contest and which ultimately could be costly some year.

Also Phil for Darcy is not a problem and Kearney for Dempsey any team would kill for. Sexton too for Phil is a positive change which to me will help in tight games where latin flair is too risky.

Given we are weak at SH while Whits is out.....I dont see how the triple injury is that bad at all.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

il gatto

I thought Munster were playing great rugby while the WC was on. They played a stormer against Llanelli (also depleted but still strong). They looked sharp and strong all around the field. I think that in the last couple of years they have improved the squad greatly. I had no time for Mick O'Driscoll, but he's come good recently as well. Munster are very well set up for the seasons ahead. If HEC qualification does end up dependant on Magners League position, Munster have the wherewithall to finish top 3 for the foreseeable.

toomevara

First signs of an imminent IRFU white wash are in. According to the great leader, dear ol Eddie, 'He doesnt anticipate any great change' following the worldcupocalypse as it must now, and ever more, be referred to.

Apparently its been 'difficult' trawling through the aftermath and everyone's been greatly 'dissapointed' by the result. Eddie in a further assault on common sense and our collective intelligence goes on to say in his usual mad-as-a-bedstand way that 'We've got something to prove in the six nations'

Honestly Hitler in the Bunker in '45, planning a fantasy thousand year reich has nothing on this guy.....