ecocabs.ie

Victor

A few questions. Apologies if I come across a little harshly.

What is the licencing régime? I presume you come under the carraige office, but do you need a taxi licence or similar?

Do you find the recumbent (lying back as opposed to sitting on a conventional bicycle) energy efficient?

Ecocabbie wrote: »

"Underused" would not be a word that would come to mind when describing Ecocabs activity. An average fleet of just 8 cabs would take up to 300 passengers per day on a weekend and nearly always over 1,500 people a week. I wouldnt call that underused- if that were 1,500 city centre taxi journeys (and Im not saying it necessarily would be) that would be a fairly significant number...

By comparision Dublin Bus handles 500,000 per day. You mention "An average fleet of just 8 cabs" - but how many are actually in the average fleet? I very rarely see them on the road, mostly parked up on the footpath.

The Ecocabs are fully insured for public liability,

Fully appreciated. Is this like a modified motor policy or is it completely different?

credited by the RSA and department of transport,

In what way are you accredited by them?

the company have been assigned designated pickup points by the director of transport services in Dublin city council and

Where are these pick-up points? I've notice the top of Grafton Street, Tourist Office and The Spire.

run in conjunction and even in partnership with the city council and local law enforcement.

How is this so?

The scheme will be expanded in 2008 but is kept as a completely separate entity to that of the public bicycles which is being debated here.

In the city centre or elsewhere?

Ham'nd'egger

If any mode of transport is picking up for hire or reward, then they need the relevant insurance. The drivers surely must require PSV licences as a result and the vehicles ought to be deemed safe the same way that buses, taxis and horse carriages are.

edanto

As far as I know, the service is free, paid for by advertisers and people often tip the drivers.

Ham'nd'egger

edanto wrote: »

As far as I know, the service is free, paid for by advertisers and people often tip the drivers.

I was looking at the site and it indeed says that Ecocabs are free. However, I would be doubtful that one can operate a service such as this without some level of PSV licence or regulation, as it is still plying for hire or reward, even if the agreed fare is nil. In relation to tips, the Taxi Regulator is of the opinion that a tip is part of the fare, and as such this would very much make it a "reward".

Hotblack Desiato

Nearly as wide as a car, slower than a bicycle - just what our congested streets need :rolleyes:
This is all about the advertising. Eco-whatever has nothing to do with it.

NewDubliner

Let's look at the positive side: maybe it will lead to cycle tracks wider than a minister's secretary's assistant's desk.

Ecocabbie

Victor wrote: »

A few questions. Apologies if I come across a little harshly.

What is the licencing régime? I presume you come under the carraige office, but do you need a taxi licence or similar?

Do you find the recumbent (lying back as opposed to sitting on a conventional bicycle) energy efficient?

By comparision Dublin Bus handles 500,000 per day. You mention "An average fleet of just 8 cabs" - but how many are actually in the average fleet? I very rarely see them on the road, mostly parked up on the footpath.

Fully appreciated. Is this like a modified motor policy or is it completely different?

In what way are you accredited by them?

Where are these pick-up points? I've notice the top of Grafton Street, Tourist Office and The Spire.

How is this so?

In the city centre or elsewhere?

No need to apologise Victor.

No taxi license is required because their licensing regime only covers motorised vehicles. The carriage office's licensing office ceased functioning a few centuries ago when a certain number of licenses were issued to horse drawn cart operators and are now passed down through those families, ie- no new licenses are supplied. So the Ecocabs scheme follows none of the above but a licensing system is pending and the scheme will be reviewed by the city council after its first year

Yes, I find the recumbent seating position quite efficient, certainly works a few extra muscles!

I mentioned average fleet consisted of 8 cabs because that is the number normally on the street at a given time. Sometimes less, sometimes more. Wouldnt even start making comparions to Dublin bus who have hundreds of buses on the street at any given time, and double that number in their bases.. more comparable to a city centre only operating 9-5 taxi

Insurance is different as it is completely non-motorised and encompasses the shuttling of members of the public. Its probably more than your car and a taxi put together!

The vehicles themselves were recognised and deemed to pass the safety conditions as road vehicles by the insurance unit of Dept. of transport and the RSA. Their opinion and recommendation were required to secure the actual policy aswell as other requirements

The pickup points are at the Spire island, the top of Grafton street, the bottom of Grafton Street, Central Bank on Dame Street, and the Dublin tourism office. For certain sponsors we have also been assigned twp pickup points within the Dublin Docklands/IFSC area.

Ecocabs will only take passengers from these points- they will not take passenegrs from the side of the street. This is purely a safety issue. It was one of the factors the Director of transport would have insisted upon and we are happy to do so in the interests of safety also. This is the main reason you would see them parked alot in the same places but I do assure you that the activity stats are accurate. They would undoubtedly take more passengers if they could pick up anywhere but that's where things would get messy..

We have worked at many city council events and in partnership with them, for example 'European mobility week' and Car free day. I dont have the specific press releases to hand but the general one for Car free day is here http://www.dublincity.ie/press_news/press_releases/lord_mayor_calls_on_citizens_of_dublin_to_support_car_free_day.asp
There are many more events like this lined up next summer and Ecoacbs Ireland have the full support of the city manager, the director of transport services, and several government ministers who played an active role in bringing the service to ireland

2008 will see an expansion of the scheme in both Dublin and in two other cities in Ireland where the city council support has been the same, even greater than Dublin

The service is completely free of charge. Ecocabs merely operate a shuttle service on behalf of their sponsors- KPMG, AIB whoever is the sponsor of that cab is supplying the public with the free fare. In this way they are showing their own interest in the environment. Passengers are free to leave a small tip with the drivers who are obviously paid a wage, but are under no obligation to do so. Some do, some dont, 100% their own choice!

As mentioned the cabs do have the relevant insurance- they are not motorised vehicles and do operate a free shuttle so PSV licenses are irrelevant. Believe me, they will not issue them

Finally ninja900, they are 1metre wide. How wide do think a car is!??:eek: I understand your sentiments about it being 100% advertising and nothing Eco while thats a very easy conclusion to come to I can assure you are very incorrect in your assumptions and the motivations of the management are indeed not only Eco but also for the promotion and facilitation of cycling in our cities.Management have been involved in other Eco-based projects for many years- none involved advertising.

Hope this clears up some queries. Sorry if I had hijacked the discussion about JCDecaux. Now do you think their motivation has anything to do with bikes and Eco? I dont think so. The city is nowhere near ready to facilitate public bicycles- it is simply not safe enough. Will the rental bikes rent helmets with them? I doubt it!

Ecocabbie

sorry i forgot we had started an altogether new topic so the last two longs belong in the other thread...

Capt'n Midnight

Saw one during the week. Was shocked to see the light on the front wheel. It seemed to be an LED bicycle light. Was low down and hidden from view by the body of the vehicle. So it's a bicycle then is it when it comes to legal requirements for lights ? Mopeds have better and more visible lights. The cab has a large surface area, but I didn't see any reflectors on the front or sides. I didn't see the back to see what reflectors or lights were there.

Victor

I think technically they are ped-elecs - power assisted bicycles, but I undestand they would have to comply with the same rules as bicycles as a minimum.

Ecocabbie

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

So it's a bicycle then is it when it comes to legal requirements for lights ? Mopeds have better and more visible lights. The cab has a large surface area, but I didn't see any reflectors on the front or sides. I didn't see the back to see what reflectors or lights were there.

Yea exactly, same requirements as a bicycle. Lighting and safety standards for this vehicle were set by DEKRA- the German authority that designs and implements national car tests- including our own NCT if Im not mistaken. Their standards were upheld by the RSA. No reflectors on front or sides, not necessary. It has car (well trailor to be exact) rear light at the back of the cab with brake lighting function. This is deemed to be far more important by the RSA and to be honest we agree. Mopeds do have better front lights youre right, but then it would want to because it travels all over the city at any time of day or night. Ecocabs only travel within the mostly well lit city centre area and only between 10-6, until 11-7 on weekends.

Yea Victor, Ped-elecs would be fairly accurate- the scope of this being determined by the wattage of the assisting motor and whether it is purley 'assisting' the pedal action or acting as a substitue. Those mopeds you can get which also have pedals are for example considered aw motorised vehicle, and wouldnt be classed as a ped-elec. Its still a pretty grey area to be honest but actually the Ecocab was the basis for two recent pieces of legislation (EU directives) relating to the classification of such vehicles as it has proven so poopular over the continent.

OTK

What are the journey limits for ecocabs? IFSC? Ranelagh? Ballsbridge? Heuston? Phibsborough?

Ecocabbie

Hi OTK

Ecocabs operate within roughly a 1.5-2km radius of O Connel bridge. We only operate in the city centre area as this is the area that suffers from greatest congestion and pollution.

IFSC? Yes, we have two pickup points down in that area and go there regularly.
Ranelagh? Not really (Its out of our operation area)
Ballsbridge? No (well out of our operation area)
Heuston? On occassion depending on traffic (it is on the edge of our area)
Phibsborough? No, geberally dont go beyond Parnell Sq.North, on occassion to Croke park. It tends to be too hilly

Hotblack Desiato

Ecocabbie wrote: »

Finally ninja900, they are 1metre wide. How wide do think a car is!??:eek:

Wide enough so that it can't pass an ecocab in the same traffic lane.
I have seen ecocabs hold up entire lanes of traffic, including buses.
Not really my problem, as I commute by motorbike, but anything that adds to traffic snarl is really unwelcome in this city.

Ecocabbie

ninja900 wrote: »

Wide enough so that it can't pass an ecocab in the same traffic lane.
I have seen ecocabs hold up entire lanes of traffic, including buses.
Not really my problem, as I commute by motorbike, but anything that adds to traffic snarl is really unwelcome in this city.

Thanks for that. There are actually very few areas where a car cannot pass an Ecocab in the same lane, seriously, at 1 metre wide (which would be comparable in width with a Honda goldwing or similar), the small city centre area that we service means there is nearly always room for cars overtaking Ecocabs.

However, I do accept your point, and Ecocabs do sometimes hold up traffic, but this is always short term (becuase the distances travelled are short), just like a bus holding up traffic to pick up passengers, and it is generally during rush hour anyway when the cars were getting nowhere very fast anyway. At times of the day we are a hell of a lot faster than cars but I do admit it happens, albeit for very short periods.

As for adding to the snarl of Dublin city traffic, the aim of Ecocabs is actually to ease the snarl of traffic and have less cars on the streets by encouraging alternatives and promoting cycling- sometimes more difficult to look at the bigger picture I know. If all our passengers took taxi journeys for these short trips or used their cars then this would add to the said snarl, on top of the added environmental impacts which play a huge factor also.

A similar scheme was launched in Berlin in 1997 with around 10 Ecocabs, 10 years later there are 200- virtually integrated into the public transport network and have played a huge role in reducing city centre traffic. Im not for a second suggesting the same would/could happen in Dublin but just trying to clarify the aims here. It is for the above reasons that Ecocabs Ireland have recieved and continue to recieve the city council and governmental support that they have- not to mention the amazing reaction from the public who by their demand, drive the service. Some Car drivers may not welcome Ecocabs but then again, people driving cars in the city centre know what they're getting themselves into at this stage, that's what everyone is working to reduce, end of story.

Hotblack Desiato

Ecocabbie wrote: »

There are actually very few areas where a car cannot pass an Ecocab in the same lane, seriously, at 1 metre wide (which would be comparable in width with a Honda goldwing or similar)

The Goldwing is going to be moving with (or more likely, overtaking) the traffic, not holding it up.

the small city centre area that we service means there is nearly always room for cars overtaking Ecocabs.

Actually it's in the city centre where the problem is most likely to arise, with our centuries-old street layout.
There might be room (just) in most cases but having a car, bus or lorry squeeze past with millimetres to spare can't be much fun for the occupants.

However, I do accept your point, and Ecocabs do sometimes hold up traffic

If holding up traffic (buses and high occupancy vehicles) in one-person cars is socially irresponsible, as I believe it to be, surely doing the same for the convenience of two people (on a very short trip where other methods i.e. walking or bus are available) is hard to justify.

and it is generally during rush hour anyway when the cars were getting nowhere very fast anyway.

Surely rush hour is the very worst time to be adding any sort of additional impediment to traffic flow. I'm not shedding tears for car drivers here, but bus passengers.

As for adding to the snarl of Dublin city traffic, the aim of Ecocabs is actually to ease the snarl of traffic and have less cars on the streets by encouraging alternatives and promoting cycling

Do ecocabs encourage cycling?

If all our passengers took taxi journeys for these short trips or used their cars then this would add to the said snarl, on top of the added environmental impacts which play a huge factor also.

Only the insane would use a taxi or car for such a short journey. Walking or taking the bus are good alternatives which are already there and don't hold up anyone else.

A similar scheme was launched in Berlin in 1997 with around 10 Ecocabs, 10 years later there are 200

I would love to live in a city like Berlin with such good public transport that they can afford to give road space over to ecocabs. Dublin doesn't and can't. If/when we can get people into the city quickly and efficiently without cars, then we can look at how to facilitate short journeys within the city centre without cars.
If there were areas with car restrictions/bans and where there was adequate space for buses, then I'd be all for ecocabs operating in such an area. But at the moment DCC makes way too much money from car parking, and bus priority in this city is practically non-existent.

Ecocabbie

I dont see how saving potential emissions and giving the opportunity for passengers to travel in a sustainable manner, whilst promoting cycling and other alternatives, (yes we promote cycling) is in any way socially irresponsible.

You mentioned that only the insane would use taxis for short journeys. It is a simple fact that people do do that- every single day!- professionals for example,going to and from meetings. Many of those "insane" people are now the people that opt to use Ecocabs on a regular basis, and in fact they would cite social responsibilty as the main reason.

Plus talk to the many city centre operating taxis that Ecoacbs workers do- some of them even send passenegrs to Ecocabs becasue they have just sat 20-30mins waiting in a taxi rank to be asked for a lift about 1.5km up the road then have to return for another long taxi rank wait. That's insane but believe you me, it happens- Ive taken them!

Rush hour traffic does not flow at all and Ecocabs certainly dont make it worse. In fact in certain areas of town Ecocabs would be able to get through much of it- not hold it up!,in the same way that you do on your motorcycle. I guarantee you if you took all Ecocabs off the street the rush hour bus situation would be in the exact same situation.;)


I totally agree with you that buses are not prioritised enough, I also agree that there are many problems with the city's roads and traffic management system but Ecocabs are doing little to make worse the situation.

Who knows, Dublin could be access only or full of congestion charges for private vehicles in 5 years times, changes will have to take place, Ecocabs provide an alternative that was not there before and although it may be a while before they reach their potential, even as it stands their benefits in terms of passengers numbers, their promotion of sustainable alternatives and savings of emissions far outway any small negative effects they may have on the city's dire traffic situation.

Ecocabbie

I apprecaite the comments, if you have any specific queries or suggestions please dont hesitate to mail me or make contact through the company website.

I would also invite you to take the opportunity to use an Ecocab if you have you have the chance at any stage (whether rush hour or not!) to see the operation from that point of view and any effects on the city's traffic.

Thanks

markpb

Ecocabbie wrote: »

whilst promoting cycling and other alternatives, (yes we promote cycling) is in any way socially irresponsible.

I think ecocabs is an interesting idea but I'm still sitting on the fence about whether it's a good idea or not. Kudos for giving something new a try though!

Personally I will say that while you might encourage people to cycle but you also encourage existing cyclists to hate you. Your cabs use the cycle lanes so it's hard for us to pass you out but you also move much slower than most cyclists. Can't you use the footpath or the middle of the road?

Ecocabbie

:DThanks Mark, yea tried both those...:rolleyes:

I get your point, however Im an existing cyclist- have been for years, in fact management of the company are also heavily involved in cycling, plus entire staff pool for that matter, and they love it. Youre right, sometimes Ecocabs are like that slow cyclist blocking the entire bike lane but there are always ways around them, Ecocabs certinaly dont intentionally block other cycle lane users' ways and will always do their best to give way. You wont often get stuck behind one