2008 and Beyond: What needs to be done?

Rineanna

Since the track season has died down for the winter and we're looking towards the start of the cross-country season, I thought it might be an idea to have a discussion on what improvements everyone thinks the AAI and others should make to build on the 2007 season, and to maximise our potential both in the short term (looking towards Beijing) and in the long-term (with an eye on the Euro outdoors in Barcelona in 2010 and the London Olympics and all the other Majors in between).

Are the current athlete support structures sufficient?

Are the correct Youth/Junior structures in place to guide and nurture talent to the very top level?

Is enough being done to entice and retain new talent in the sport?

The interview with Max Jones in the Irish Runner brought up the notion of a high-performance centre; is this a possibility in Ireland seeming that we don't even have a single indoor arena outside of Nenagh and the Odyssey?

thirtyfoot

Well I think Brendan Hackett in some ways has done a good job and in others he hasn't. He seems to have a big focus on the mass participation of "the fitness" athlete, the guy who will do the odd 10k, the Spar Mile etc. I think we need more Fit4Medals than Fit4Life.

A lot of time and money is being spent on things like Fit4Life and the Sparmile when to be honest it ain't going to be worth jack sh*t on the medal rostrum in London. Sparmile was a disaster and sometimes when I hear Hackett talk I wonder does he really want athletes winning medals at majors or would he prefer a Lydiardian style jogging boom kicking off. AAI should be looking after medals while Lindie et al can look after the meet and trainers. Meet and trainers are great by the way!

Having said that under his stewardship good things are happening. Coach education is improving and this forum thing is Liffey Valley in November is a great idea. Our facilities are good, its the coaches where we lack. Great things are possible and when you look at clubs like Ferrybank in Waterford you can see that anything is possible. A great bunch of young athletes across many disciplines. All you need is a field, some basic equipment and a great coach and you are laughing - I know as thats what I had when a kid.

In my opinion the age to get athletes is the 12-15 age group. I think a big focus should be put here. Less focus at any <12 years (which is been done with the fun in athletics etc) and get rid of the all-irelands at the younger age. At the 12-15 age get athletes hooked, make it fun and social which is easy as its a great social sport, but also work at technique and skills. This makes it easier at 16-20 years when it only strength/conditioning being worked on and more tweaking of technique than total retraining as is the case with many.

The 16-20 age is the big problem and this is where I believe great coaches play a part. Being a great coach is more than being technically gifted, you need motivational and inspirational coaches to keep athletes interested and keen. The regional camps are a good idea, give an athlete the impression they are doing well and getting somewhere. I had a coach in school, not athletics, who inspired me to stay in athletics even though he wasn't a track coach.

So, more focus on the 12-15's with skill/technique honing a key priority. Mentoring and inspiring for the 16-20's, regular domestic competition for the 20-30's and a ban on all vets competition so we have more coaches available to coach and recruit the athletes:D. Sorry just had to add this in as its in the recent issue of The Coach where it mentioned that famous article with Malcolm Arnold when he said the following "I don't like the idea of coaches of athletes going into veteran athletics. I have a personal hatred of vet's athletics. I feel someone of my age should be doing something better with their lives....we are losing a lot of people that way". Classic and nearly started WWIII where he was accused of being an elite track nazi. Can see where he is coming from, more coaches and better ones at that, thats the way forward.

--amadeus--

From what I have seen and read one of teh major challenges facing athletics development is the attraction of other sports (particularly soccer). Athletic ability (stamina, running, jumping) carry across a number of disciplines so any potentially elite 13 or 14 yr old male runner is probably going to be considered as a bright hope in a team sport as well. Since elite footballers earn hundreds of thousands a month it's easy to see where the pull will lie. By the time they return to athletics the golden phase of skill development that Tingle mentions may have passed.

I don't know if there is an easy answer. More (and more inclusive) events may be a start. That way peoples concept of running being something that you do only to raise money for charity can begin to be changed. I'm not involved in education so I don't know is there a schools program where kids are educated on Irelands athletics history, our success stories and the whole athletics field presented in a "look, we're quite good at this" way. Linked to a continued or expanded youth coach development and recruitment scheme you can begin to attract youngsters. The facilities are there in most major towns it's just about attracting talent into them and keeping them there - how hard can that be!!

ecoli

personally i feel that one angle that has not been approached is poaching kids from other sports with the idea that running is a key component to any sport so initially joinin to compliment there own sports we can then show them the magic of the sport. also more juvenile events for the kids who cant compete at the highest level as a second chance or resort to nationals?

DaveH

Im going to write a more details response to this. Sorry tingle have to ask a few questions.....

But before I do as Im in work at the moment!!

ecoli wrote: »

personally i feel that one angle that has not been approached is poaching kids from other sports with the idea that running is a key component to any sport so initially joinin to compliment there own sports we can then show them the magic of the sport. also more juvenile events for the kids who cant compete at the highest level as a second chance or resort to nationals?

Do you mean by 2nd Level juvenilles, the B Championship? or just wondering if many people know about that?

ecoli

yea i know bout the b championships and i know how much they dont work we need to start establishing maybe a juvenille all ireland race series/league to provide a constant high level comp to sharpen our athletes skills or somethin along them lines for example(thou not to the same extent) the american type system where u can get a class field in races week in week out

DaveH

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this, but busy man!

Anyhow

Tingle wrote: »

Well I think Brendan Hackett in some ways has done a good job and in others he hasn't. He seems to have a big focus on the mass participation of "the fitness" athlete, the guy who will do the odd 10k, the Spar Mile etc. I think we need more Fit4Medals than Fit4Life.

A lot of time and money is being spent on things like Fit4Life and the Sparmile when to be honest it ain't going to be worth jack sh*t on the medal rostrum in London. Sparmile was a disaster and sometimes when I hear Hackett talk I wonder does he really want athletes winning medals at majors or would he prefer a Lydiardian style jogging boom kicking off. AAI should be looking after medals while Lindie et al can look after the meet and trainers. Meet and trainers are great by the way!

Ok Tingle not starting a row here but just making a couple of points.
1.I agree Spar Mile was a complete Joke. I know AAI are looking at moving the date, also one of the big problems was that Spar only really advertised the race at the launch and didnt really push it after that.

2. AAI remit is to promote Athletics not just elite athletics. Gary Owens who the government appointed to review AAI pointed out his 3 P plan.
I know one was particaption.
To gain major sponsorship AAI have to prove how many members they have, Race Sponsor want to know the numbers of runners taking part in races. They pay sponsorship on per entrant.
Gary Owens and Berndan Hackett pointed out if they could say to sposnors there are 1,000 AAI members then a sponsor would comit to say €5 per member. Hence Fit4Life is to attrach women who would only usually compete in the Mini-Marathon.

3.Have you spoken to Lindie Naughton about Fit4Life league? Believe me you are in for a major shock. Another one to mention to her is the Great Ireland Run.

Tingle wrote: »

Having said that under his stewardship good things are happening. Coach education is improving and this forum thing is Liffey Valley in November is a great idea. Our facilities are good, its the coaches where we lack. Great things are possible and when you look at clubs like Ferrybank in Waterford you can see that anything is possible. A great bunch of young athletes across many disciplines. All you need is a field, some basic equipment and a great coach and you are laughing - I know as thats what I had when a kid.

Can I just ask what Club your a member of? Great facilities would have to be Donore?

Also theres a lot of great talk about good Ferrybank are, but how many top Seniors do they have?

In my opinion the age to get athletes is the 12-15 age group. I think a big focus should be put here. Less focus at any <12 years (which is been done with the fun in athletics etc) and get rid of the all-irelands at the younger age. At the 12-15 age get athletes hooked, make it fun and social which is easy as its a great social sport, but also work at technique and skills. This makes it easier at 16-20 years when it only strength/conditioning being worked on and more tweaking of technique than total retraining as is the case with many.

Tingle wrote: »

The 16-20 age is the big problem and this is where I believe great coaches play a part. Being a great coach is more than being technically gifted, you need motivational and inspirational coaches to keep athletes interested and keen. The regional camps are a good idea, give an athlete the impression they are doing well and getting somewhere. I had a coach in school, not athletics, who inspired me to stay in athletics even though he wasn't a track coach. So, more focus on the 12-15's with skill/technique honing a key priority. Mentoring and inspiring for the 16-20's, regular domestic competition for the 20-30's and a ban on all vets competition so we have more coaches available to coach and recruit the athletes:D. Sorry just had to add this in as its in the recent issue of The Coach where it mentioned that famous article with Malcolm Arnold when he said the following "I don't like the idea of coaches of athletes going into veteran athletics. I have a personal hatred of vet's athletics. I feel someone of my age should be doing something better with their lives....we are losing a lot of people that way". Classic and nearly started WWIII where he was accused of being an elite track nazi. Can see where he is coming from, more coaches and better ones at that, thats the way forward.

Ok, I just want to make a point about Vets athletics. What is the point of having someone who comes into a club and has no history in the sport and starts coaching?

Im not a fan of vets athletics, but I dont disagree with it. I wouldnt like to be coached by someone who stopped competing at 15/16 and came back into athletics at 35+, hadnt competed but wanted to coach.

thirtyfoot

DaveH wrote: »

at the launch and didnt really push it after that.

2. AAI remit is to promote Athletics not just elite athletics. Gary Owens who the government appointed to review AAI pointed out his 3 P plan.
I know one was particaption.
To gain major sponsorship AAI have to prove how many members they have, Race Sponsor want to know the numbers of runners taking part in races. They pay sponsorship on per entrant.
Gary Owens and Berndan Hackett pointed out if they could say to sposnors there are 1,000 AAI members then a sponsor would comit to say €5 per member. Hence Fit4Life is to attrach women who would only usually compete in the Mini-Marathon.

3.Have you spoken to Lindie Naughton about Fit4Life league? Believe me you are in for a major shock. Another one to mention to her is the Great Ireland Run.
.

Thats all great but this thread is about winning medals at futures games. Fit4Life, Sparmile and Meet and Train won't do this. I'm all for volunteerism and participation but medals to me is more important. No interest in mini-marathon, mass participation etc because its not even aimed at the younger ages.

I'm a member of the strongest snior club in the country who have access to a 60m indoor strip, club bar, 400m track, weights room. We are lucky with our facilities but to other clubs less fortunate nils despeandum:D

Regarding Ferrybank and no seniors, they have only just in the past few years starting getting things together at juvenile level. They seem to have a good retention to junior. Give them a chance, its been a 6 or 7 year process and they are doing brillant. Don't knock Ferrybank, its the model we should all follow.

ecoli

Tingle wrote: »

I'm a member of the strongest snior club in the country who have access to a 60m indoor strip, club bar, 400m track, weights room. We are lucky with our facilities but to other clubs less fortunate nils despeandum:D

i presume u mean clonliffe and while u have alot of gud athletes you might not be viewed as the strongest i for one feel that you are well rivalled in clubs such as dsd and to a lesser extent maybe raheny who have managed to assemble great athletes without the attraction of such good facilities

thirtyfoot

ecoli wrote: »

i presume u mean clonliffe and while u have alot of gud athletes you might not be viewed as the strongest i for one feel that you are well rivalled in clubs such as dsd and to a lesser extent maybe raheny who have managed to assemble great athletes without the attraction of such good facilities

I was only having a bit of craic really but back to the topic of facilities I do believe that great coaches are more important than great facilities. People use lack of facilities as an excuse a lot (I know I used too) but look at the number of tracks we have -

Dublin - 3, Cork - 2, Limerick, Castleisland, Waterford, Templemore, Kilkenny, Tullamore, Greystones, Galway, Derry, Belfast 2, Navan and I'm sure I've missed some. Lots of tracks, lots of fields and parks, lots of gyms not so many great coaches and recruiters. Having said that there are lots of great coaches but not enough.

There is an big move from many of our top athletes to overseas, especially the UK to coaches over there. Gillick, Hess, DOR and Joanne Cuddihy. The coach education now taking place is a great step forward though and more coaches in the future will hopefully make more great champions so I think the AAI are going about that in the right way.

ecoli

yea sligo also have a class track but u right facilities aint the prob we need proper coachs not jus voluteers who may have no knowledge or experience i know in my club all the serious athletes have looked outside the club for there coachin which sorry state of affairs but a neccessity
agreed gopod to see aai tackling this prob in terms of coachin seminars etc now if onli they could become punctual at race meets lol

ecoli

oh and one that slipped the mind is the national freezer which is nenagh lol great track terrible shed my heart goes out to the parents and supporters rather than the athletes in this case haha

thirtyfoot

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/docs/Strides.pdf

This is a well presented document released by the AAI this week.

ecoli

it easy to bring out these mission statements like the Brits been doin it for ages we will see how far it goes hopefully it will lead to improvements in standards across the board