Manufactured stone - planning query

alred

I am wanting to use manufactured stone (Century Stone - www.centurystone.ie) for a new build house currently under construction. The reason for this is simply asthetics and is not to save time or money. However, part of the planning permission stipulates that "any stone used shall be a local stone idigenous to the area".

Bearing in mind that this is a house that I plan to live in for the foreseeable future, what are the implications of using manufactured stone?

I have spent a considerable amount of time driving around the countryside looking for stone and keep coming back to this manufactured stone - to my untrained eye it looks 100% natural in every respect & is exactly what we are looking for.

Is there any mechanism that would enable me to get this product approved by the planners before we go ahead with it or is it simply a case of taking a chance :cool:

yop

Should not be an issue lad, plenty of people have used the man made stone without any planning applications, its not as if they are going to go out and check it.

Slates

alred wrote: »

I am wanting to use manufactured stone (Century Stone - www.centurystone.ie) for a new build house currently under construction. The reason for this is simply asthetics and is not to save time or money. However, part of the planning permission stipulates that "any stone used shall be a local stone idigenous to the area".

Bearing in mind that this is a house that I plan to live in for the foreseeable future, what are the implications of using manufactured stone?

I have spent a considerable amount of time driving around the countryside looking for stone and keep coming back to this manufactured stone - to my untrained eye it looks 100% natural in every respect & is exactly what we are looking for.

Is there any mechanism that would enable me to get this product approved by the planners before we go ahead with it or is it simply a case of taking a chance :cool:

If you are not going to sell the house any way soon stick on the man made stone, there is no building control in ROI and it will only be a issue if you sell the house

smashey

Slates wrote: »

it will only be a issue if you sell the house

And then, only if it's picked up on.

Mellor

There is actually a chance that the condition applied to the PP doesn't apply to manufactured stone.

It says that "any stone" used much be local.

The producted you mention isn't stone, its concrete. So, if It would be a different matter if the condition said you must use local stone in areas shown on plans.

Have you actually seen this product in the flesh and not pictures, as any concrete cast to look like stone that i've ever seen looked terrible.

alred

Thanks for the replies. Our plans do state "Natural Stone" for certain areas. I have spent a considerable amount of time looking at stone and this is as close to natural as you can get. I have seen it up on 4 different houses - ranging from the entire house to a small porch and it looked as real as it gets even when right up to it. In my opinion, it looks a lot better than some natural stone finished that I have seen.

ircoha

why dont u post a pic of a natural stone application and a manud one and let us see if we can tell the difference.

It seems an interesting product as it is just a lightweight skin, so it would allow u get a low u value with proper insulation

sas

ircoha wrote: »

It seems an interesting product as it is just a lightweight skin, so it would allow u get a low u value with proper insulation

I'm a little confused by this. Where exactly does insulation become relevant when you are choosing between natural vs manufactured stone?

sinnerboy

If your drawings specity natural stone and the permission condition specifically requires natural stone then be careful .

Condition no 1 of your permission is bound to say words to the affect " build to the drawings "

On the other hand the chances of being caught by enforcement is patchy at best . An attentive neighbour may bring it to the attention of enforcement - was the subject raised by 3rd party commentry during the planning process ? does the planners report ( available on request from the planning dept ) refer to it ? If so be careful .

And the the question - who will certify compliance with planning permission for you upon completion ? That person may be inclined not to certify of you don't actually comply .

And further down the line , years to come when you go to sell on. Hypotetical situation may or may not ever happen .... you have used artificial stone .... no hassle from authorities .... you got your cert from an architect / surveyour / engineer BUT housing market has been flat for some time .... Purchaser gets eagle eyed surveyor to review documents . You may lose a sale or you may be offered a reduced price . I have seen this occur folks .

godtabh

Slates wrote: »

there is no building control in ROI

There is building control here isnt there? You just dont see it much

smashey

kearnsr wrote: »

There is building control here isnt there? You just dont see it much

Mellor

sinnerboy wrote: »

And further down the line , years to come when you go to sell on. Hypotetical situation may or may not ever happen .... you have used artificial stone .... no hassle from authorities .... you got your cert from an architect / surveyour / engineer BUT housing market has been flat for some time .... Purchaser gets eagle eyed surveyor to review documents . You may lose a sale or you may be offered a reduced price . I have seen this occur folks .

Wouldn't that have to happen within 7 years due to the statue of limitations?

sinnerboy

Mellor , SOL applies to actions by the local authority . What I am talking about is the sale process . The last 10-12 years in Ireland has seen an extremely bouyant , explosive even , housing market . Sellers have been able to say "take it or leave it " to buyers .

Having spent 1984 - to 1995 in the UK and seen how things work in a depressed market , I say that buyers will vigourously look for every reason , including spurious , to beat a house price down under that circumstance .

Now , who knows what the future holds .

The OP I am sure can make his own judgement on all the opinions noted in this thread . The issues I have raised may or may not ever materialse in his case .

I have seen them materialise .

sinnerboy

Mellor wrote: »

Wouldn't that have to happen within 7 years due to the statue of limitations?

enforcement action can take place .....

1. in the case where no planning application exists , within 7 years of the commenecent of the works

2. in the case where planning permission exists , within 7 years of THE EXPIRY OF THE PERMISSION . So a longer period of waiting in this case ....

Ref- Planning and Development Act 2000 Part 8 Article 157 - 4a (i + ii )

alred

Thanks for all the replies - here as some photos of 2 of the types of stone. What do you think? Have a look at the website www.eldoradostone.com - they are the suppliers of the stone and have some good examples on their website.

From the replies am I correct in saying the following:

If we have no intention of ever selling the house this is not an issue.

If we do plan to sell it may become an issue from a financial viewpoint.

It is highly unlikely that we could be asked to revert back to natural stone by the planning authority.

One other query that is of a similar nature - the windows we plan to use are cream painted timber or timber with a weather-proof cladding. The elevation drawings state "double glazed timber windows" and I have been advised that this means that only a natural timber finish will comply. Are we in compliance using painted or timber windows with a cladding?

sinnerboy

I would robustly argue that "Alu Clad" windows are still timber windows

sinnerboy

alred wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies - here as some photos of 2 of the types of stone. What do you think? Have a look at the website www.eldoradostone.com - they are the suppliers of the stone and have some good examples on their website.

From the replies am I correct in saying the following:

If we have no intention of ever selling the house this is not an issue.

If we do plan to sell it may become an issue from a financial viewpoint.

It is highly unlikely that we could be asked to revert back to natural stone by the planning authority.

One other query that is of a similar nature - the windows we plan to use are cream painted timber or timber with a weather-proof cladding. The elevation drawings state "double glazed timber windows" and I have been advised that this means that only a natural timber finish will comply. Are we in compliance using painted or timber windows with a cladding?

Q's in order

Yes - but who knows whats around the corner ?
Maybe yes maybe no
I have seen it happen .( not specifically stone vs art stone ) . Sometimes , for reasons posted earlier , the LA will feel your collar . do the research i suggested earlier ( planners report ) before deciding

sunnysoutheast

There is a mechanism for clarifying these issues with the planning department - think it's called a minor variation or something.

We used it (Waterford Coco) to clarify that we could use grey Aluclad windows instead of golden oak PVC as indicated on the drawings. Eventually we got a letter confirming same. Eventually (II) we put the golden oak windows in!

Having said that, we had no specific conditions attached to materials - your permission may be more stringent than ours.

SSE

galwaytt

sinnerboy wrote: »

I would robustly argue that "Alu Clad" windows are still timber windows

Agree.

Sparky78

If you wanted to sell the house you could apply for retention of the artifical stone and this would solve your problem.
I cant see them having a problem with the retention if the 7 years is up and they cant get you to pull it down anyway.

sinnerboy

.... also .... you may wish to remortgage sometime .....