Balcony on a self build

reilig

I have started my self build which is a 1950 square foot two storey with a balcony. the block work started today and I want to get some advice about my balcony.

The house is not going to have hollow core flooring in the upstaris - instead wood. However, I wand to know how people can advise me to build my balcony. Should I construct the floor from a piece of hollow core or are there lentils specially made for building balconies??

If anyone has any advice, I would apreciate it.

Daniel

ardara1

reilig wrote: »

I have started my self build which is a 1950 square foot two storey with a balcony. the block work started today and I want to get some advice about my balcony.

The house is not going to have hollow core flooring in the upstaris - instead wood. However, I wand to know how people can advise me to build my balcony. Should I construct the floor from a piece of hollow core or are there lentils specially made for building balconies??

If anyone has any advice, I would apreciate it.

Daniel

Hi Dan,

BIG problems with balconeys - continuing the floor slab over the wall insulation creates a massive thermal bridge - there are massive problems with apartments that apparently have 'leaky balconeys' over living rooms - they're not leaking - it's condensation forming under the patio door saddle that isn't insulated. try to break the balconey and support it from outside. There is a connection systme that breaks the concrete but continues the steel reinforcement - I saw it at a show once.

Mellor

I think the product ardara refers to is the "isokorb" thermal breaks from Schock.

reilig, is the balcony cantilevered out from the house, or is it above a ground floor room.

CJhaughey

I would be tempted to get a balcony fabricated out of steel and galvanised and then erect it outside not cantilevering it but bolting it back to the blockwork.
What are the Dim's of the balcony?

pete6296

CJhaughey wrote: »

I would be tempted to get a balcony fabricated out of steel and galvanised and then erect it outside not cantilevering it but bolting it back to the blockwork.
What are the Dim's of the balcony?

Good idea, i have a balcony that i will have to build in the next few months and still not sure how to go about it. Very hard to find a place to get advice.

reilig

The balcony is 2.95m by 2.074m and it is not being built over a room so condensation will not be a problem.

Thanks for the info, I will look into that stuff

Daniel

ardara1

reilig wrote: »

The balcony is 2.95m by 2.074m and it is not being built over a room so condensation will not be a problem.

Thanks for the info, I will look into that stuff

Daniel

COndensation WILL be a problem if the floor slab isn't broken at the wall junction - you'll get it in the corner of the ceiling in that room donstairs.

ircoha

reilig wrote: »

The balcony is 2.95m by 2.074m and it is not being built over a room so condensation will not be a problem.

Thanks for the info, I will look into that stuff

Daniel

As a matter of interest, If not over a room where is it going?.

If u decide to get one made and bolt it on you need, in my opinion, make provision for how u are going to fit it.

a couple of M6 shag bolts into cavity block wont be sufficient:)

reilig

ircoha wrote: »

As a matter of interest, If not over a room where is it going?.
QUOTE]

Its going over a patio area which is open - there is kind of an L shape in the building so the balcony will rest on the wall of the house on he back and side and will have to be supported with a steel beam on the front and side which will have to be supported by an upright.

The problem is that there isn't a floor slab upstairs because we are not putting in hollow core floors. But I met someone yesterday who has a similar balcony and he was telling me how he bought some type of lentils from a local lentil manufacturer which fitted in with the blocks and allowed him to construct his balcony very easily (and saved him a fortune rather than getting a hollowcore. He just poured the floor of the balcony on top of these.
I am going to see exactly what he did later this week and will let you know.

Daniel

CJhaughey

I was in a hardware store in Denmark a few months back and they were selling premade galvanised balconys in various configurations, half round, square, rectangular, etc etc
They were all supported by either 100~ 150mm square tube and fixed back to the house.
I personally would tend to support them at all points ie for a rectangular balcony at the two front and two back corners and then fix to the house.
Steel is strong and allows the supporting beams to be small and unobtrusive.
I would probably still timber deck the balcony.

ircoha

reilig wrote: »

ircoha wrote: »

As a matter of interest, If not over a room where is it going?.
QUOTE]

Its going over a patio area which is open - there is kind of an L shape in the building so the balcony will rest on the wall of the house on he back and side and will have to be supported with a steel beam on the front and side which will have to be supported by an upright.

The problem is that there isn't a floor slab upstairs because we are not putting in hollow core floors. But I met someone yesterday who has a similar balcony and he was telling me how he bought some type of lentils from a local lentil manufacturer which fitted in with the blocks and allowed him to construct his balcony very easily (and saved him a fortune rather than getting a hollowcore. He just poured the floor of the balcony on top of these.
I am going to see exactly what he did later this week and will let you know.

Daniel

Thanks: if u are considering in effect having it supported on 2 sides on house and 2 steel beams with a steel column to support that corner then it is a very simple job as u are not cantileving from the house which is the usual problem. In this case most of the load on the wall fixings will be shear load and little enough bending moment which is what puts a big pull out pressure on the upper wall fixing

Just look at how ur friend dealt with the cold bridging from the lintels which I presums are the full width of wall

ibh

I would have though the best idea would be to contact a company that make Lintels?.. I know there is Acier in dublin but i'm sure any lintel manufacturers would put you right.

Mellor

Why is there a lintel required? Obviously one for the balcony access ope, but I can't see where the steel (or otherwise) balcony itself needs one. Unless, I am misunderstanding the description.

reilig

Mellor wrote: »

Why is there a lintel required? Obviously one for the balcony access ope, but I can't see where the steel (or otherwise) balcony itself needs one. Unless, I am misunderstanding the description.

Maybe lintel is the wrong word and could be better described as "slab" which will be required for the floor of the balcony. I suppose my main idea is a way cheaper than putting a piece of hollowcore on it.

Mellor

Oh right, timber decking is the way to go. It looks better and it is lighter. So the load is less and because of this the structure is smaller, cheaper and easier.

reilig

Mellor wrote: »

Oh right, timber decking is the way to go. It looks better and it is lighter. So the load is less and because of this the structure is smaller, cheaper and easier.

To be honest with you, timber decking will not work. The balcony exits from the first floor and directly beneath the balcony I have 2 patio doors - 1 exiting from the dining room and 1 exiting from the sitting room.
Can you picture it on a wet day and the rain falling on the wooden balcony and flowing between the decking boards and onto the person who has just exited one of the patio doors below.

The balcony has to be a waterproof structure. In my view, concrete is the best option.

CJhaughey

You can manage rain with a timber deck, it just takes a little thought.
you will still have runoff with a concrete balcony and it will likely be heavier unless you gutter the edge where it falls, otherwise it will be like a waterfall.

Mellor

Well, I don't consider that to be a huge problem, the water will fall down to people exiting doors below, but it is raining out anyway, and the flow will be spread over the whole balcony.
Water will still flow off a concrete balcony, and it will infact be a greater flow of water in a smaller area. If this is what you want, then it can be done with timber also,

reilig

Well today I solved my problem. I saw a balcony constructed which is very similar to mine. It was made from t-beams with 4 inches of concrete poured on top.

I will have to get the upright and 2 cross supports fabricated from steel and the t-beams can rest on this and on the outer block allowing the insulation to run right through remove the threat of a thermal bridge or condensation.

Now those of you who are of construction mind can pick holes and find faults with my plans and I will try to change them accordingly but this is how the guy constructed the balcony that I saw today and it looks good and he has it for over 2 years now with no problems.

Daniel

tribesman

Its going over a patio area which is open - there is kind of an L shape in the building so the balcony will rest on the wall of the house on he back and side and will have to be supported with a steel beam on the front and side which will have to be supported by an upright.

I would look into building it with textured structural glass. I've no idea what involved and its probably expensive but it sounds like it would let more light into your patio doors below.

pete6296

Hi,
I would be really interested in seeing your plans or idea's, i have the same type of idea for my balcony but very concerned about load on steel from t-beams with blocks in between along with 4 inches of concrete poured on top. Are you insulating with Kingspan Styrozone insulation? Acier in Dublin can construct steel.
Pete

reilig

pete6296 wrote: »

Hi,
I would be really interested in seeing your plans or idea's, i have the same type of idea for my balcony but very concerned about load on steel from t-beams with blocks in between along with 4 inches of concrete poured on top. Are you insulating with Kingspan Styrozone insulation? Acier in Dublin can construct steel.
Pete

Hi pete,

My balcony is going to be completed within the next 4 to 6 weeks as it has to be done before the upper level of blocks are built on the house. To answer your questions:
I am insulating with kingspan.
Don't be at all worried about the load on the steel. I will get my balccony fabricated from 7 inch H steel. This will be bolted together and set with mortar into the wall and ground. I will also get it galvanised dipped to. It will easily hold up the t - beams. I have worked in the construction of slatted tanks and seen huge slats, 3 or 4 times the weight of what my little balcony will be, held up with similar systems.

Also, I hope to brick and plaster around the steel of the balcony to hide it.
I got some great suggestions from people on this board about constructing the balcony from steel alone and from wood. But I just can't see this fitting in with my house. The house is a plaster finish, and I really think that the balcony needs to be made from concrete to match it in. Any other material would look really out of place in my opinion.

Anyway, if you talk to someone who fabricates steel, they will tell you what load steel will carry and hopefully back me up. As I get it completed I will concrete you with what I did and how I did it and let you know how I get on.
When does your build start?

Daniel

pete6296

reilig wrote: »

Hi pete,

My balcony is going to be completed within the next 4 to 6 weeks as it has to be done before the upper level of blocks are built on the house. To answer your questions:
I am insulating with kingspan.
Don't be at all worried about the load on the steel. I will get my balccony fabricated from 7 inch H steel. This will be bolted together and set with mortar into the wall and ground. I will also get it galvanised dipped to. It will easily hold up the t - beams. I have worked in the construction of slatted tanks and seen huge slats, 3 or 4 times the weight of what my little balcony will be, held up with similar systems.

Also, I hope to brick and plaster around the steel of the balcony to hide it.
I got some great suggestions from people on this board about constructing the balcony from steel alone and from wood. But I just can't see this fitting in with my house. The house is a plaster finish, and I really think that the balcony needs to be made from concrete to match it in. Any other material would look really out of place in my opinion.

Anyway, if you talk to someone who fabricates steel, they will tell you what load steel will carry and hopefully back me up. As I get it completed I will concrete you with what I did and how I did it and let you know how I get on.
When does your build start?

Daniel

Hi Daniel,
Next Monday the blocklayer is arriving, pouring concrete into raft foundation tomorrow, ground floor will take approx 3 weeks to block and then hollowcore arrives so i am eager to get ideas on balcony. With a total of say 1.5 feet between t-beams, 4 inch of concrete and 180mm of Kingspan, will your ceiling level be lower than rest pf house.
Has you found a supplier for your steel, my build is based in Galway and i have yet to see this type of balcony anywhere.
Appreciate all your advice
Pete

reilig

pete6296 wrote: »

Hi Daniel,
Next Monday the blocklayer is arriving, pouring concrete into raft foundation tomorrow, ground floor will take approx 3 weeks to block and then hollowcore arrives so i am eager to get ideas on balcony. With a total of say 1.5 feet between t-beams, 4 inch of concrete and 180mm of Kingspan, will your ceiling level be lower than rest pf house.
Has you found a supplier for your steel, my build is based in Galway and i have yet to see this type of balcony anywhere.
Appreciate all your advice
Pete

I think the ceiling beneath th ebalcony may be a little lower, but there will be a step down from the house which should compensate for this.
Supplier of steel in Galway, well that shouldn't be too hard, it depends on where you are? There are several different guys around New Inn, Athenry and Loughrea that manufacture steel framed buildings and would have no problem doing up something like this for you. (I can get you some names if you want them, the Missus is from over that way). As far as I can see, practically every parish around there has a guy who makes steel buildings.

Thinking about it, I don't think there will be any kingspan in the balcony, my balcony is totally outside, so this type of insulation would not be needed.

Just to note on your blocks, I got blocklayers in (3 + 1 gang). They were a little more expensive than anyone else, but well worth the extra. They built over 3000 12 inch blocks in the deadwork (no rafts here) in 2 and a half days, its the neatest blockwork you have ever seen. They built the garage (500 sq ft) and ground floor of house (1950 sq ft) in 3 days. Everything neat, tidy, plum and clean. I couldn't keep the blocks to them fast enough.

Mellor

reilig wrote: »

Thinking about it, I don't think there will be any kingspan in the balcony, my balcony is totally outside, so this type of insulation would not be needed.

Correct. An not just KS or similar, any type of insulation would not be needed.

pete6296

reilig wrote: »

I think the ceiling beneath th ebalcony may be a little lower, but there will be a step down from the house which should compensate for this.
Supplier of steel in Galway, well that shouldn't be too hard, it depends on where you are? There are several different guys around New Inn, Athenry and Loughrea that manufacture steel framed buildings and would have no problem doing up something like this for you. (I can get you some names if you want them, the Missus is from over that way). As far as I can see, practically every parish around there has a guy who makes steel buildings.

Thinking about it, I don't think there will be any kingspan in the balcony, my balcony is totally outside, so this type of insulation would not be needed.

Just to note on your blocks, I got blocklayers in (3 + 1 gang). They were a little more expensive than anyone else, but well worth the extra. They built over 3000 12 inch blocks in the deadwork (no rafts here) in 2 and a half days, its the neatest blockwork you have ever seen. They built the garage (500 sq ft) and ground floor of house (1950 sq ft) in 3 days. Everything neat, tidy, plum and clean. I couldn't keep the blocks to them fast enough.

Hi Daniel,
You have it sorted, i did'nt account for a step in my foundation for balcony and i will need Kingspan for insulation because below balcony is my conservatory which is semi-circular with all glass (I hope). I would appreciate any names, contacts you may have. My build is in Headford, C.o Galway.
I appreciate your advice and help, hard to find.
Block laying costing me 95 cent a block so happy with that, reckon around 9,500 blocks to lay. Will take a while.
Thanks again,
Peter