National Hunt fans - this is what we've all been waiting for..

Colonel Sanders

Excellent card at aintree this sunday and a good warm up in Ireland tomorrow. Monet's Garden, Exotic Dancer and Ashley Brook take up the Kauto Star challenge.

Its great to have the REAL racing back

pid()

Kauto is giving 7lbs to Exotic Dancer. Revenge will be sweet.

mdwexford

Indeed it is, Tidal Bay, Kachit, Kauto Star et al

I cant wait!!!!!!!

knighted

real racing at last

Mr Brightside

yeah whatta buzz the jumps gives you!! Noel gave dont push it a peach off a ride today!! Had a heafty bet on it to,makes it all the sweeter!!

Mr Brightside

pid() wrote: »

Kauto is giving 7lbs to Exotic Dancer. Revenge will be sweet.

Would love to see anything wearing cheekpieces get stuffed!!

mdwexford

Pretty impressive pipe opener from the champ, thought he had it there for a sec at the second last. Obviously wasnt even half fit.

pid()

Mr Brightside wrote: »

Would love to see anything wearing cheekpieces get stuffed!!

Why's that?

knighted

cheekpieces are a sign of a horse being ungenuine but its debatable -

md ,i know you love kauto star but he was beaten fair and square ,if he was unfit they wouldnt run him, well not 50 pc anyway,also he won this race last year so was he fit then ? only four weeks till his next race -he was giving monets garden a stone but he has given other horses a stone previously and still beat them -in his defence i will say that small fields like 3 and four horses are very rarely true run races ,but i think you should accept that the wonder horse is beatable ,very tough season last year and after today he should face a full field next time as people will want to have a shot at him -

i will offer 5/1 that he falls in betfair

Mr Brightside

Well as for the cheekpieces being debatable as ungenuine,i dont know many that wear them arent? Dont win top class races wearing them? Glad to see a true old fashioned chaser winning unlike that exotic cart!! Thought kauto was poor too!! As for tidal bay looks a very nice animal and the better class off race will help him?

Colonel Sanders

Hag ashley brook stayed up the pace wouldn't have slackened and Kauto star would've been beaten further. I also think ashley brook might have put it up to Monet's Garden.

I actually thought Monet's looked to be carrying a bit of condition beforehand too. If I owned either of the first 2 I'd be pretty happy with their first runs. We'll see a different horse in the Betfair chase.

Mr Brightside

Lets hope so!! Porky must be raging running kauto in a handicap?

mdwexford

knighted wrote: »

cheekpieces are a sign of a horse being ungenuine but its debatable -

md ,i know you love kauto star but he was beaten fair and square ,if he was unfit they wouldnt run him, well not 50 pc anyway,also he won this race last year so was he fit then ? only four weeks till his next race -he was giving monets garden a stone but he has given other horses a stone previously and still beat them -in his defence i will say that small fields like 3 and four horses are very rarely true run races ,but i think you should accept that the wonder horse is beatable ,very tough season last year and after today he should face a full field next time as people will want to have a shot at him -

i will offer 5/1 that he falls in betfair

Half fit yesterday knighted, he was against donkeys last year, Monets Garden is no mug round Aintree. Roll on the Betfair Chase, yesterday is the only time the mighty Kauto Star will be beaten this season folks.

knighted

md if a horse is only half fit there is no way you can run it ,so get that idea out of your head ,he probably wasnt fully fit ,but looking at him he wasnt carrying much condition ,i know im probably like the drunk father telling you about the myth of santa claus ,but someone has to do it ,-he wasnt the same horse as last season and on that evidence they will be doing well to get him up to 3 miles in four weeks time ,he barely stayed 2m4f fit or unfit -if im wrong ,fair enuff ,time will tell but i will still offer you 5/1 as a special bet to you
they might have gone to the well with him too often last year ,like a lot of martin pipe horses over the years -
either way it will be interesting and i await ur wrath

knighted

page 661 on bbc ceefax "nicholls voices concerns over kauto"

mdwexford

knighted wrote: »

md if a horse is only half fit there is no way you can run it ,so get that idea out of your head ,he probably wasnt fully fit ,but looking at him he wasnt carrying much condition ,i know im probably like the drunk father telling you about the myth of santa claus ,but someone has to do it ,-he wasnt the same horse as last season and on that evidence they will be doing well to get him up to 3 miles in four weeks time ,he barely stayed 2m4f fit or unfit -if im wrong ,fair enuff ,time will tell but i will still offer you 5/1 as a special bet to you
they might have gone to the well with him too often last year ,like a lot of martin pipe horses over the years -
either way it will be interesting and i await ur wrath

Im bubbling over with rage here knighted!!!!!!! :mad:;)
Half fit is obviously an exaggeration and not meant to be taken literally.
He ran like a horse with lots left to work on to me, he looked as if he was gonna get beaten by half the track at one stage but then got a second wind and stayed on again well.
It amuses me you're writting off the best horse of the past 25+ years for the season on the back of that.

5/1 to win the Betfair Chase and were in business.......

pid()

knighted wrote: »

md if a horse is only half fit there is no way you can run it

Yes you can. Horses need runs to get fit and to improve - you can't rely on training alone. Come on like.

Kauto was not concentrating during the race - hence the reminders. He wasn't fully fit either. Come November he will have his mind to the task at hand and be fitter. Anyone who writes off Kauto now hasn't a clue, IMO.

knighted

pid() wrote: »

Yes you can. Horses need runs to get fit and to improve - you can't rely on training alone. Come on like.

Kauto was not concentrating during the race - hence the reminders. He wasn't fully fit either. Come November he will have his mind to the task at hand and be fitter. Anyone who writes off Kauto now hasn't a clue, IMO.

as i said previously
if im wrong fair enuff but if you think that was any where near his best your delusional -same time as last year ,same race ,same ground yet he struggles to get home?therefore he not the same horse as last year ,facts dont lie -
i can honestly see him being caught out next race -
nicholls said he needs every yard of three miles nowadays ,all the others have to do now is up the tempo earlier and he will get caught out if nicholls statement is true

now pid ,as for your comment as to training and running unfit horses -you run an unfit one and he going to blow up ,most of the time, when he comes under pressure ,kauto didnt appear to blow up and his pure CLASS got him home ,the one who appeared to blow up was the winner
if a trainer relies on racing to get there horse fit ,thats called schooling in public -as for your comment that i havent a clue ,i can assure you i have ,and i posted comments on what i saw without wearing rose tinted glasses and ill informed comments like yourself -please explain how you know that his mind will be on the job come november? i think i weighed up the horses performance pluses and negatives equally and arrived at my view and didnt make any assumptions to his fitness or mental state ,i 100pc agree he is a CLASS horse ,no doubts about it but he not the same horse ,and i know its based only on one race but thats all i had to go on

now md -im glad i make your blood boil ;)you know i like sparring with you and i will give you the 5/1 to 50 quid ,the catch is ,i wont pay you the winnings ,i will donate 250 to your chosen charity, and ,if i win you donate 50 to mine ,as i would hate to see a wexford man getting drunk on my money as you would begrudge a dub so you have nothing to lose if he wins

so in effect im putting my money where my mouth is ,and again if im wrong so be it,i can take humiliation well -up to you

knighted

pid() wrote: »

Kauto is giving 7lbs to Exotic Dancer. Revenge will be sweet.

just noticed that you wrote on the second post in this thread that revenge will be sweet for exotic -i assume you backed exotic ? doesnt put confidence in kauto then jump on the bandwagon -post an informed comment in future and we might get a conversation going

pid()

knighted wrote: »

as i said previously
if im wrong fair enuff but if you think that was any where near his best your delusional -same time as last year ,same race ,same ground yet he struggles to get home?therefore he not the same horse as last year ,facts dont lie -
i can honestly see him being caught out next race -
nicholls said he needs every yard of three miles nowadays ,all the others have to do now is up the tempo earlier and he will get caught out if nicholls statement is true

And what mark was Kauto off this time last year? This was a handicap, and Kauto is at his highest mark. To say he is past it based on a performance that simply showed the horse lacked interest is laughable. He hasn't ran since March, he's had a fine break and his mind was not at the task. It was very obvious from the way he ran that he was distracted, and was not fully fit. When he is fully fit and has his mind at the task at hand you still think he will be beaten?

knighted wrote:

please explain how you know that his mind will be on the job come november?

"The horse needed the run" does not always mean he needed to run to get fit. Often horses need a run to get used to racing after a break.

knighted wrote:

just noticed that you wrote on the second post in this thread that revenge will be sweet for exotic -i assume you backed exotic ? doesnt put confidence in kauto then jump on the bandwagon -post an informed comment in future and we might get a conversation going

You're a bit too cocky for my liking. What bandwagon am I jumping on? I'm being reasonable. I wrote Kauto off last year, and have been backing exotic dancer since it's reappearance after breaking its' pelvis. ED was shockingly bad on Sunday, because the race was not run to suit. He needs a big field and he needs a slower pace, but that's another conversation.

Now, if you're going to reply to me less of the e-penis waving please. A bit of courtesy goes a long way, and I'm sure you're not that smarmy in person.

mdwexford

knighted wrote: »

as i said previously
if im wrong fair enuff but if you think that was any where near his best your delusional -same time as last year ,same race ,same ground yet he struggles to get home?therefore he not the same horse as last year ,facts dont lie -
i can honestly see him being caught out next race -
nicholls said he needs every yard of three miles nowadays ,all the others have to do now is up the tempo earlier and he will get caught out if nicholls statement is true

now pid ,as for your comment as to training and running unfit horses -you run an unfit one and he going to blow up ,most of the time, when he comes under pressure ,kauto didnt appear to blow up and his pure CLASS got him home ,the one who appeared to blow up was the winner
if a trainer relies on racing to get there horse fit ,thats called schooling in public -as for your comment that i havent a clue ,i can assure you i have ,and i posted comments on what i saw without wearing rose tinted glasses and ill informed comments like yourself -please explain how you know that his mind will be on the job come november? i think i weighed up the horses performance pluses and negatives equally and arrived at my view and didnt make any assumptions to his fitness or mental state ,i 100pc agree he is a CLASS horse ,no doubts about it but he not the same horse ,and i know its based only on one race but thats all i had to go on

now md -im glad i make your blood boil ;)you know i like sparring with you and i will give you the 5/1 to 50 quid ,the catch is ,i wont pay you the winnings ,i will donate 250 to your chosen charity, and ,if i win you donate 50 to mine ,as i would hate to see a wexford man getting drunk on my money as you would begrudge a dub so you have nothing to lose if he wins

so in effect im putting my money where my mouth is ,and again if im wrong so be it,i can take humiliation well -up to you

Ok we have a deal sir.

Also for the record im only living in Wexford a few years, im a Dub through and through. :cool:

Morgans

i can honestly see him being caught out next race -
nicholls said he needs every yard of three miles nowadays ,all the others have to do now is up the tempo earlier and he will get caught out if nicholls statement is true

This statement betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how horse races develop. A stayer would always prefer a strongly run race against a slowly run race.

I would have some fears about Kauto Star and the way he ran, but I wouldnt write him off, and would still have been a 10l+ winner off level weights on Sunday.

RichieLawlor

How can a horse who destroyed the current champion 2 mile chaser over 2 miles in a hack canter in last years tingle creek, 10 months ago "need every yard of the 3 mile trip now"

Morgans

That a very fair point Richielawlor. Trainer seems to think he has trained the keenness and the speed out of him. I would be a little more sceptical. Racing Post have rated the race very highly. I would also be very suspicious of that rating - his second best performance apparently. Just got the feeling that there wasnt something quite right with the horse and wouldnt take too short a price about him next time out.

Colonel Sanders

Tom Segal was pretty sceptical about the from in Monday's racing post. Was insisting that Ashley Brook would have won easily had he stood up and had this happened then it would have put a very different gloss on the post race analysis.

I'm certainly not writing the horse off yet but very few french breds get better with age. They are raced over hurdles and fences from a young age and often burn out earlier than their Irish and GB bred counter parts. The Betfair chase will be very interesting and should answer a good few questions. Nicholls will have had another month to get him close to his best and there should be no excuses from either the Kauto Star or Exotic Dancer camps.

pid()

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Nicholls will have had another month to get him close to his best and there should be no excuses from either the Kauto Star or Exotic Dancer camps.

Agreed. My view on ED's performance is that it was a small field which didn't suit, and the pace was too quick for ED, coupled with the fact that it wasn't 100% fit. We've seen ED make jumping mistakes before, but the last time we've seen a performance like that from ED was prior to the exaggerated hold up tactics that worked so well last year with McCoy.

To be honest, this makes their next reappearance very interesting.

Mr Brightside

Anyone think ruby schooling in public today? On ebaziyan? Want to know coz had major bet on it today after being told that it was trying its heart out and that was from a good source! Dont get me wrong the winner won on the bridle,but dont nearly all off meades!!

ziggy

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Mr Brightside

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ruby certainly wasnt schooling taranis!! Cheers ruby!!