If this was France or Italy ...

peasant

....after the announcements of the last few weeks/days, come next week this country would be at a standstill.

Drastic health cuts after years of inneffective squander; nurses turfed out in the street for lack of funds while HSE officials get bonuses; politicians get a 12-15 % payrise while telling everybody else to tighten their belts; and the icing on the cake ...tens of thousands of drivers on 2nd provisionals will be criminalised over night with the new learner permit legislation ...lots of them in danger of loosing jobs.

If this was France or Italy, there'd be strikes, road blocks, demonstrations.

Whats happening here? ...bit of mumbling and grumbling here and there, lifeline is busy, but that's about it.

Why is that?

Where is the political "will of the people" ?

Sleepy

The political will of the people elected these muppets. They're now presumably getting what they wanted.

marcsignal

Everybody's up to their goolies in borrowed money, and nobody wants to rock the boat.

purple'n'gold

peasant wrote: »

....after the announcements of the last few weeks/days, come next week this country would be at a standstill.

Drastic health cuts after years of inneffective squander; nurses turfed out in the street for lack of funds while HSE officials get bonuses; politicians get a 12-15 % payrise while telling everybody else to tighten their belts; and the icing on the cake ...tens of thousands of drivers on 2nd provisionals will be criminalised over night with the new learner permit legislation ...lots of them in danger of loosing jobs.

If this was France or Italy, there'd be strikes, road blocks, demonstrations.

Whats happening here? ...bit of mumbling and grumbling here and there, lifeline is busy, but that's about it.

Why is that?

Where is the political "will of the people" ?

But, you’re forgetting, we’re Irish, we do things differently! Blame it all on the British; we never should have let them leave.

sovtek

I agree. I've never seen such apathy in my life. Bertie is about the highest paid "leader" in the world!!!!! For what?
A Kiwi friend of mine was saying the yesterday after hearing about Dail pay rise. "It's time for everyone to pull people out into the street and run them out on a rail."
It's apathy mixed with ignorance that got America where it is today...don't think it can't happen here (ok perhaps on a smaller scale) as well.

mike65

In Italy and France they'd throw a fit then shrug. We just skip the first part.

Mike.

Tea drinker

sovtek wrote: »

I agree. I've never seen such apathy in my life. Bertie is about the highest paid "leader" in the world!!!!! For what?
A Kiwi friend of mine was saying the yesterday after hearing about Dail pay rise. "It's time for everyone to pull people out into the street and run them out on a rail."
It's apathy mixed with ignorance that got America where it is today...don't think it can't happen here (ok perhaps on a smaller scale) as well.

Agreed. It IS happening here. Everybody said US deserves whatever if they elected bush again.. are we any different? We elected "him" and ""them" again. Sure, maybe it's something in the psyche, half the yanks are half-paddies.

mike65

[off topic] Actually about 15% of the US population have some Irish roots.

Mike.

purple'n'gold

sovtek wrote: »

I agree. I've never seen such apathy in my life. Bertie is about the highest paid "leader" in the world!!!!! For what?
A Kiwi friend of mine was saying the yesterday after hearing about Dail pay rise. "It's time for everyone to pull people out into the street and run them out on a rail."
It's apathy mixed with ignorance that got America where it is today...don't think it can't happen here (ok perhaps on a smaller scale) as well.

I don’t think you can compare the US to here, not even scaling it down for size. We have crowd of shysters, chancers and crooks running things. They are dangerous to our pockets, but in the international scheme of things they are less than nothing. On the other hand Bush, Cheney ET al are dangerous lunatics who are quiet capable of starting a major war. (I know they have already started wars, but I’m thinking really serious stuff.)

marcsignal

After all of the stuff coming out in the Mahon Tribunal, I'm just amazed Bertie is still in his job, if it was you or me, you'd be in the slammer already.

sovtek

purplengold wrote: »

I don’t think you can compare the US to here, not even scaling it down for size. We have crowd of shysters, chancers and crooks running things.

as compared to the dick and bush?

peasant

marcsignal wrote: »

After all of the stuff coming out in the Mahon Tribunal, I'm just amazed Bertie is still in his job, if it was you or me, you'd be in the slammer already.

Yes ..but who's going to 'fire' him?

The opposition tried and failed and the fellow passengers on the gravy train are hardly going to decouple the locomotive

It would have to be "the people" taking to the streets.

sovtek

mike65 wrote: »

In Italy and France they'd throw a fit then shrug. We just skip the first part.

Mike.

I guess you don't remember when the Euro came in. In France and Germany they merely rounded up a cent or two (as opposed to 50 cents here) and the respective countries came to a standstill (here the Consumer Association actually condemned protesting...idiots!).

marcsignal

peasant wrote: »

Yes ..but who's going to 'fire' him?

The opposition tried and failed and the fellow passengers on the gravy train are hardly going to decouple the locomotive

yes, sad but true, "Beverly Cooper Flynn" springs to mind. A 'Class Act' indeed :mad:

They really would put the 80's Italian Politicians in the Kindergarden.

peasant wrote: »

It would have to be "the people" taking to the streets.

God i'd LOVE to see it happening, it would definitely be worth flying home to be there if it ever did.

Catcher86

peasant wrote: »

Yes ..but who's going to 'fire' him?

The opposition tried and failed and the fellow passengers on the gravy train are hardly going to decouple the locomotive

It would have to be "the people" taking to the streets.

People in this country seem to be more concerned with trying to get on the gravy train rather than trying to stop it.

In Hungary last year their Prime Minister told a small fib about they state of the economy, ( something that gets done here on a day to day basis with twisting of statistics) and there was absolute uproar. They were outside parliament buildings day and night for days protesting and calling for his head.
He made a tearful apology and said that he was ashamed of himself.
He also said that out of dignity and pride he would only resign after he had fixed the economic problems.
No way would Bertie resign here due to his integrity being called into question.

Irish Mentality=
Quick burst of Passion - " Iam ripping I am going to protest"
Adrenaline levels return to normal - " Do you know what, its a bit cold and I think its goin to rain. Whats on the telly."

peasant

Well ...another thing is that the masses need a leader

But who could credibly get on their soapbox and demand a protest?

The greens? :D
(How they must hate themselves for getting involved in this ...)

What upstanding citizen is out there that could get people out of their apathy and hasn't got a shadow of doubt hanging over themselves?

Brendan Gleeson maybe ...remember his outbreak on the late late ?

HelterSkelter

peasant wrote: »

Where is the political "will of the people" ?

Why don't you lead by example then, organise the protest and I'll be there

peasant

HelterSkelter wrote: »

Why don't you lead by example then, organise the protest and I'll be there

I'd get told to mind my own business ...I'm a foreigner

The Irish populace as such doesn't take too kindly to being given 'outside advice'

HelterSkelter

peasant wrote: »

Brendan Gleeson maybe ...remember his outbreak on the late late ?

How about Joe Higgins? Yeah he's a socialist, a dirty word in some people's language, but has much the same views Gleeson expressed.

sovtek

peasant wrote: »

I'd get told to mind my own business ...I'm a foreigner

The Irish populace as such doesn't take too kindly to being given 'outside advice'

Too right peasant. On immigrationboards.com I'm trying to get an immigrant party started if you're interested.

The_Minister

marcsignal wrote: »

After all of the stuff coming out in the Mahon Tribunal, I'm just amazed Bertie is still in his job, if it was you or me, you'd be in the slammer already.

No you wouldn't

marcsignal

sovtek wrote: »

I'm trying to get an immigrant party started if you're interested.

off topic, but that is a seriously damn good idea Sovtek

marcsignal

The_Minister wrote: »

No you wouldn't

you mean because tribunal stuff can't be used as evidence ? whetever, he's certainly one slippery piece of work

marcsignal

people have protested before, houswives protested in the early 70's about food prices, and farmers are doing it all the time, and the anti war protests were big. With the protests for Palestine there were politicians from across the sphere involved. I think it would take a similar effort, with politicians from across the sphere getting involved. (except FF tho, for the obvious reason)

It would be great to see tho, I thought it was such a shame that people waited for years until Haughey was giving evidence in Dublin castle before they started publicly booing him as he came out. His assets should have been seized IMO.

reminds me of the music from that Pennys ad after the upheaval in Romania years ago, 1989 i think??:

#"Ceauşescu, got a hole in his head for Christmas, and so did his family"#

gazzer

Hopefully there are a lot of the 100,000 plus 2nd provisional drivers out there who wouldnt normally be 'politically aware' and who now(because of the government) are effected by this decision who will want to protest. Add to this the people outraged at the pay rises given to Bertie and co and lets have it.. a mass protest on the streets.. I would LOVE to see this happen and I will be right there with them if it did.. but this is Ireland.. We will all moan about it for a few days and then just bend over and accept it.. I know i am guilty of moaning about it myself and doing nothing. For once today though i got up off my arse and emailed politicians and the RSA. I know nothing will come of it but I felt a bit better that at least instead of just moaning to friends and family I actually did something productive.

Personally I think a group of people with flaming torches should storm the dail and burn Bertie at the stake.

I dont know why but with the latest happenings from our government I am put in mind of Nero fiddling while Rome burnt.

gandalf

Actually the more I think about this the more unwilling I am to take 5 more years of these bumbling fools running our country and tainting our future prosperity.

Count me in.

sovtek

marcsignal wrote: »

off topic, but that is a seriously damn good idea Sovtek

immigrants and "natives" alike are welcome.

marcsignal

Just thought i'd throw this in for what it's worth

The Revolution starts at Closing Time !!!!

Dirk Gently

I've no sympathy for us. We are a nation which accepts everything and just moans about it. I blame our own citizens rathar than our leaders. It has been pretty obvious that boom would turn to bust and that our leaders are minipulative spin doctors to say the very least but I lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of paddy and seamus who dispite having mountains of easily accessable information available to them decided to stick their heads in the sand and borrow borrow borrow and elect re elect and re elect. Not only that but we actualy admire Bertie.

I share the OP's wish that we had a bit of frenchie activism in us but in it's absence I cease to blame government and opportunistic developers, speculators and lenders and place the blame squarely on an uninterested herd like society. Responsibility must lie with the society who continually supports this government (granted we haven't much of an opposition), it's standards and fuels our credit bubble. Harsh but it's how I feel. I hope by the time bertie retires he's pulling in a million a year and every hospital in the country is privatised and the footpaths leading up to them have toll charges on them. We get the government we deserve.

[/rant ends]

Whats happening here? ...bit of mumbling and grumbling here and there, lifeline is busy, but that's about it.

Welcome to Ireland

moe_sizlak

this business over berties rise will have passed in less than a week , irish people and in particular fianna fail voters are not bothered by corruption

as the religous conservative journalists david quinn said not that long ago , while we irish may have been at one time puritanical about sex , we were never ever puritanical about money

most people ive met , there attitude towards berties rise was fair ducks to him

walshb

Everyone keeps on mentioning the fact that we elected them into office.
Does anyone really believe had we elected another party, that things would
drastically change??

I don't think so. We need politicians whether we like it
or not and whether we like it or not, corruption and
wheeling and dealing
will always be around in any government.

I don't think there would be any difference HAD Bertie and FF
not been voted back in.
They are possibly the best of a bad lot.

The main problem in Ireland is that those in
positions of authority and trust are not policed and can
basically get away with close on anything. Nobody is ever
held accountable and resignation is a real dirty word in Ireland.

In Britain and France and other countries, if politicians
f**k up, they GO...., no ands ifs or buts.

Here we brazen it out and stick two fingers up to
the very people who elected us.

And that applies to whatever party is elected.

It's all down to a lack of class, manners and standards and
most of all, a lack of SHAME!!!

mikemac

In the UK, ministers are regularly sacked.
I believe they even have a code of ethics they have to comply with.

It's very rare an Irish minister is sacked. Only one I can think is Ivor Callely, and he was then made a senator.

Irish people are great at moaning but don't take much action.
The thread about complaining in restaurants in AH showed a lot of this

But "ah shure, it'll be grand!"