judges wages?

NoQuarter

just looking at the news there today and they were announcing lots of pay rises for some lucky fcukers and judges were in there too so it just got me thinking what a judges yearly remuneration actually is?? im assuming its different for higher courts and so on???

johnnyskeleton

king-stew wrote: »

just looking at the news there today and they were announcing lots of pay rises for some lucky fcukers and judges were in there too so it just got me thinking what a judges yearly remuneration actually is?? im assuming its different for higher courts and so on???

The New rates are:

Office New Rate (% Increase)

Chief Justice 310,000 (15.6)
President of the High Court 290,000 (16.4)
Judge of the Supreme Court 270,000 (15.5)
President of the Circuit Court 260,000 (15.0)
Judge of the High Court 255,000 (15.7)
President of the District Court 202,000 (21.2)
Judge of the Circuit Court 197,000 (22.4)
Judge of the District Court 158,000 (17.8)

Link

NoQuarter

:eek::eek:oh my thats a lot of zero's!!! :eek::eek:

johnnyskeleton

king-stew wrote: »

:eek::eek:oh my thats a lot of zero's!!! :eek::eek:

Not really, you can't pay judges peanuts, or compare their wages to, for example, working in a bank. It's a lot less than consultant surgeons make.

Remember too that it's not like a starting wage - most judges have many years experience in the law before they can get the job.

mountainyman

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Not really, you can't pay judges peanuts, or compare their wages to, for example, working in a bank. It's a lot less than consultant surgeons make.

Remember too that it's not like a starting wage - most judges have many years experience in the law before they can get the job.

Consultant surgeons are overpaid. Further it is more than the state pays consultant surgeons.
Given that Judges can't be sacked, are not trained and most of them got their law degrees by eating dinner I think they are overpaid for what is basically a part time ob.

MM

Our man in Havana

I would hardly call being a DJ a part time job. Some of them have big areas to cover and sit most days and what all those special sittings to charge people for serious offences?

And I almost forgot the expenses.

johnnyskeleton

mountainyman wrote: »

Consultant surgeons are overpaid.

You see you say these things, until you actually need one.

mountainyman wrote:

Given that Judges can't be sacked, are not trained and most of them got their law degrees by eating dinner I think they are overpaid for what is basically a part time ob.

They can be sacked, they are trained, and not a single one got their degrees just by eating dinner. If you are referring to dining in the Kings Inns, there are many Judges who were solicitors (Peart J and Sheehan J being perhaps the most prominent) who've never eaten a dinner in their lives .

Again, on the contrary to being a part time job, it is more full time than a 9-5 job. District and Circuit judges regularly sit up to 7pm (sometimes after sitting through lunch), and there is a tonne of paperwork that needs doing. They are often contacted outside of hours for warrants etc.

But it's also not part time because you can't hang up your wig at the end of the day and stop being a judge - you are always a judge and you always carry the burden of responsibility that if you make a mistake it can seriously affect people's lives.

NoQuarter

well said johnny, have to agree with that

Tom Young

Indeed Johnny, spot on again! If anything they are underpaid.

krd

Saying a judges work is comparative to a consultant surgeon is absolutely disgraceful.

A district court judge getting paid five times the average industrial wage is ridiculous. GP's getting excessive renumeration is another (some are good and some are disasters, and it's hard to know the difference). Never have so few, done so little, for so much.

On the other hand. I've seen consultant surgeons perform incredible feats of physical and mental stamina, to virtually inhuman levels. I have never actually seen anyone work as hard and to such a high standard as a consultant surgeon. The amount of lives some of these guys can save and change before breakfast can be truly breath taking. Comparing a judge to a surgeon is a joke. I handle mases of paperwork on a daily basis, and never consider it comparative to wading through gore and subcutaneous body fat. And all legal documentation is just boiler plate crap anyway. It is, torturous crap to read though.

Is judges pay commensurate with the value they provide to society, or is commensurate with value determined through some sentimental social mechanism. Money is more difficult to make from genuine value creating business then most people think.....And that is the only place where it actually comes from.

Irish judges are the high priests of a secularised obscurantic political religion. (To anyone who disagrees. Can you explain away the costumes and the rituals. The only thing an Irish court room is short of is someone burning incense and sacrificing pigeons). I am truly shocked they get paid so much. I knew they were probably overpaid but not by that much.

My personal opinion is that our legal system is backward and malign. It can be so chaotic, arbitrary, and wasteful. It's not seen this way by insiders. Any member of the law society, I've ever voiced this opinion to have been instantly dismissive (with the usual supercilious smugness (Is there a course they do to perfect that?)). What I'd expect, living in a supposedly liberal democracy. Is freedom, fairness and protection under the rule of law. Since I'm paying for this, I have the temerity to expect it, as it effects my everyday life. What I have instead, when I'm lucky, is derived by the mostly benevolent altruism of society in general. Which exists outside and in spite of the of our legal system. And like good manners, is free. There are minor things I would like changed, that would massively improve peoples lives, and offer greater protection from the wolves we also share our habitat with. But I can see no will for these changes to happen. The will seems to be completely apposite. But, Jesus, do these people seem to believe they're so entitled to so much of the cake, for what they actually bring to the table.

Was judge Curtin pulling down those spondolocks, when his brain was apparently rotting out of his head? Please never compare any of these muppets to a consultant surgeon.

johnnyskeleton

krd wrote: »

Saying a judges work is comparative to a consultant surgeon is absolutely disgraceful.

Why? They are both top professionals with jobs that carry considerable responsibility and stress.

krd wrote:

A district court judge getting paid five times the average industrial wage is ridiculous. GP's getting excessive renumeration is another (some are good and some are disasters, and it's hard to know the difference). Never have so few, done so little, for so much.

Judges are well educated, experienced and for the most part hardworking. They don't get paid for overtime, and the job is not particularly pleasant. The job carries considerable responsibility and stress. All these factors are generally considered to increase your earning capacity.

Also, judges need to be solicitors or barristers beforehand, and they are often taking a pay cut as opposed to a pay rise when they become a judge. So you can't link a judge's pay to the average industrial wage on the basis of how much they produce etc, because a judge's wage needs to be high enough to attract quality candidates.

krd wrote:

On the other hand. I've seen consultant surgeons perform incredible feats of physical and mental stamina, to virtually inhuman levels. I have never actually seen anyone work as hard and to such a high standard as a consultant surgeon. The amount of lives some of these guys can save and change before breakfast can be truly breath taking. Comparing a judge to a surgeon is a joke.

Judges also make life or death decisions, when deciding whether to extradite a person, whether to grant them asylum, whether they can get an abortion, when a sick person's family can discontinue treatment, etc. They also make many very important decisions not amounting to life and death but still equally important. Since each judge and each consultant surgeon will have a different work ethic, you can't really suggest that one group is harder working than another.

krd wrote:

I handle mases of paperwork on a daily basis, and never consider it comparative to wading through gore and subcutaneous body fat. And all legal documentation is just boiler plate crap anyway. It is, torturous crap to read though.

Consultant surgeons don't spend all their time doing surgery, and you seem to be forgetting that in addition to all the paperwork, judges actually make judgements too. Just because you don't like or understand legal documentation does not mean that it is rubbish. Someone who doesn't understand or have an interest in medical documentation could also have the same erroneous view about that as you do about legal documentation.

krd wrote:

Is judges pay commensurate with the value they provide to society, or is commensurate with value determined through some sentimental social mechanism. Money is more difficult to make from genuine value creating business then most people think.....And that is the only place where it actually comes from.

It is commesurate with their position in society as holders of important roles. You could argue that in an ideal world we would not need judges, but in that world we would not need police, the army, social workers, politicians, journalists, civil servants and a whole host of other persons who are involved in running and organising the state, but that is just not realistic. I think your concept of value is a little simplistic - something doesn't need to be tangible to have value.

krd wrote:

Irish judges are the high priests of a secularised obscurantic political religion. (To anyone who disagrees. Can you explain away the costumes and the rituals. The only thing an Irish court room is short of is someone burning incense and sacrificing pigeons). I am truly shocked they get paid so much. I knew they were probably overpaid but not by that much.

The reason for court attire is that it is a serious event and should be treated as such. Would anyone have respect for the judge who sentences you to life in prison while sitting by the fire with his pipe and wearning a wooly santa jumper?

krd wrote:

My personal opinion is that our legal system is backward and malign. It can be so chaotic, arbitrary, and wasteful. It's not seen this way by insiders. Any member of the law society, I've ever voiced this opinion to have been instantly dismissive (with the usual supercilious smugness (Is there a course they do to perfect that?)).

I don't blame them for being dismissive - you don't have an actual argument. You are stating without any foundation an opinion on the legal system and expecting other people to justify it to you. Provide specific examples of how our legal system is backward and malign. Otherwise your argument is chaotic, arbitrary and wasteful. As for the "smugness", if you ask childish questions you should expect to be patronised.

krd wrote:

What I'd expect, living in a supposedly liberal democracy. Is freedom, fairness and protection under the rule of law. Since I'm paying for this, I have the temerity to expect it, as it effects my everyday life. What I have instead, when I'm lucky, is derived by the mostly benevolent altruism of society in general. Which exists outside and in spite of the of our legal system. And like good manners, is free. There are minor things I would like changed, that would massively improve peoples lives, and offer greater protection from the wolves we also share our habitat with. But I can see no will for these changes to happen. The will seems to be completely apposite. But, Jesus, do these people seem to believe they're so entitled to so much of the cake, for what they actually bring to the table.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here, but don't blame other people for not having the will to make your changes for you - the irony there is delicious.

krd wrote:

Was judge Curtin pulling down those spondolocks, when his brain was apparently rotting out of his head? Please never compare any of these muppets to a consultant surgeon.

Was Harold Shipman charging the families of his victims for the consultations?

I think the big problem with what you say is that you are taking the best surgeons and the worst judges and trying to make a comparison between the two. The comparison is equally stark between the best of judges and the worst of surgeons.