Prospect of a Limerick to Shannon Airport rail link look unlikely

gaf1983

I was glad to hear of the question Fine Gael's Kieran O'Donnell put to Minister Dempsey about the prospect of a rail link between Shannon Airport and Limerick city. I read about it in both The Irish Times and the Limerick Post.

The Irish Times report said the following:

"The feasibility study by MVA Consultants has put a cost of €700 million on constructing the rail link. However, this has been disputed by the locally-based Shannon Rail Partnership which claims that the rail link will cost €240 million."

I wonder would it be possible for MVA to explain the discrepancy between the two estimates?

My second point is with regard to what Mr Jim Gallivan, Business development manager with Iarnród Éireann, said: "Milan has three airports and no rail link with a population of eight to 10 million and the greater Limerick-Shannon area has a population of 150,000 and the current population densities do not justify the project at the moment.

"The figures don't stack up and maybe in 15 to 20 years' time, the population density might be there," he added.

I would like to alert Mr Gallivan to the existence of the Malpensa Express, which I used this summer. Its website can be found here: http://www.malpensaexpress.it/website/malpensa_express/it/home/index.php

Unfortunately I only used the train on the return leg of my journey my way back out to the airport - when I went into the city on arrival I took the bus, which took about 2 and half hours due to a traffic accident and terminally clogged dual carriageway, compared with the 35 or so minutes the train took.

That said, I don't think there is any point in comparing the needs of the Limerick-Shannon area with those of a metropolis like Milan. In any event, the Italian Institute of Statistics put the population of the Milan metropolitan area at 7.4 million, which is a bit less than the 8 to 10 figure given by Mr Gallivan. Anyway, just because Milan didn't invest in proper rail links to its airports does not mean that Limerick should copy its mistakes. There are plenty of examples around Europe of towns and cities of similar size to either Limerick or its catchment area which manage to install rail links between the airport and city, a quick glance at the Ryanair website and other airport flights brings up the following:

* Friedrichshafen, Germany. Population: 58,068
* Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK. Population: 259,536
* Blackpool, UK. Population: 142,700
* Trondheim, Norway. Population: 161,730
* Pisa, Italy. Population: 90,482
* Douglas, Isle of Man, UK. Population: 26,218
* Southampton, UK. Population: 228,600

What all these cities have in common, apart from similarly sized populations to the Limerick-Shannon area (in the case of Southampton and Newcastle-upon-Tyne it is not inconceivable that the population of the Midwest would reach that figure within the next 15 years) but also the fact that they all boast airport-city centre rail links.
Mr Gallivan even admitted that in 10 to 15 years time the population of the region might be large enough to warrant a rail link.

I believe a line must be reserved for a future rail link to prevent houses being built there in the future, and to avoid the development of this rail link becoming as wasteful as other Fianna Fáil infrastructure projects.

With regard to the Shannon-Limerick rail link, has the idea of developers contributing towards the capital cost of the project being looked into, like what happened with the Sandyford Luas line?

highlydebased

I wonder have they realised, that the rail link could be used for people wishing to travel to the Shannon region in general by train, not just to the airport

steveon

I'd love to know how it is expected to cost €700 million, the line already goes throught Sixmilebridge towards Ennis and is in perfect repair as has only been re-opened in the past 2 years..

How many miles of track would be needed to get a line as far as Shannon from there..

1huge1

I find €240 million even unbelievable, maybe im simplfying it too much but it sure its no didtance at all like just to make a route and a railway track.

phog

steveon wrote: »

I'd love to know how it is expected to cost €700 million, the line already goes throught Sixmilebridge towards Ennis and is in perfect repair as has only been re-opened in the past 2 years..

How many miles of track would be needed to get a line as far as Shannon from there..

I think the plan was a new line - going out on the left hand side of the dual carriageway. Not sure why they didn't consider using the existing track to Ennis with a spur off to Shannon.

I thought they should have upgraded the line around the city towards the cement factory use the tunnel under the Shannon and then head for Shannon Town/Airport. They could then put a LUAS/DART type train on it starting at the station with stops at Rathbane, Crescent SC (Park & Ride), Mungret (P&R), Caherdavin (P&R), Clondrinagh (P&R?), Setrights (P&R), Ballycasey, Shannon Town, Shannon Industrial Est and finally the airport. They should also consider upgrading the track to Ennis with a commuter train to the Tipperary Rd., Parkway, Corbally, Watchhouse Cross, Moyross, Meelick, and Cratloe - using this daily between the Ennis/Limerick train times.

Poxyshamrock

phog wrote: »

I think the plan was a new line - going out on the left hand side of the dual carriageway. Not sure why they didn't consider using the existing track to Ennis with a spur off to Shannon.

I thought they should have upgraded the line around the city towards the cement factory use the tunnel under the Shannon and then head for Shannon Town/Airport. They could then put a LUAS/DART type train on it starting at the station with stops at Rathbane, Crescent SC (Park & Ride), Mungret (P&R), Caherdavin (P&R), Clondrinagh (P&R?), Setrights (P&R), Ballycasey, Shannon Town, Shannon Industrial Est and finally the airport. They should also consider upgrading the track to Ennis with a commuter train to the Tipperary Rd., Parkway, Corbally, Watchhouse Cross, Moyross, Meelick, and Cratloe - using this daily between the Ennis/Limerick train times.

Great Idea....would you not inform Irish Rail and the DoT by sending them this plan?

lockman

Great posts by both phog and especially so by gaf.

In relation to what gaf has said, yes indeed, let us not follow the bad example and make the same mistakes as Milan.

This issue has been going on for some years now. I remember Seamus Brennan, the then minister of transport (late 90's- early 00's i think) commissioning similar evaluation reporst. Ech MoT since has done exactly the same since- i.e. not actually do anything but call in consultants to make a report.

A few years back, we were told that it would be viable and some private frim even mentioned stepping in to foot some of the costs in a public private partnership type deal, see:
http://www.westontrack.com/news36.htm
Note the very high discrepancy between the figures/estimates in this report (from 2003) and this weeks report. I know inflation and the cost of living has risen since but surely the cost of a new rail spur/link could not have increased so much in such a short time?

highlydebased

phog wrote: »

I think the plan was a new line - going out on the left hand side of the dual carriageway. Not sure why they didn't consider using the existing track to Ennis with a spur off to Shannon.

I thought they should have upgraded the line around the city towards the cement factory use the tunnel under the Shannon and then head for Shannon Town/Airport. They could then put a LUAS/DART type train on it starting at the station with stops at Rathbane, Crescent SC (Park & Ride), Mungret (P&R), Caherdavin (P&R), Clondrinagh (P&R?), Setrights (P&R), Ballycasey, Shannon Town, Shannon Industrial Est and finally the airport. They should also consider upgrading the track to Ennis with a commuter train to the Tipperary Rd., Parkway, Corbally, Watchhouse Cross, Moyross, Meelick, and Cratloe - using this daily between the Ennis/Limerick train times.

Absolutely. That is in fact a much better idea, instead of a sole rail line to the airport.

Perhaps a stop in limerick city also?

1huge1

phog wrote: »

I think the plan was a new line - going out on the left hand side of the dual carriageway. Not sure why they didn't consider using the existing track to Ennis with a spur off to Shannon.

I thought they should have upgraded the line around the city towards the cement factory use the tunnel under the Shannon and then head for Shannon Town/Airport. They could then put a LUAS/DART type train on it starting at the station with stops at Rathbane, Crescent SC (Park & Ride), Mungret (P&R), Caherdavin (P&R), Clondrinagh (P&R?), Setrights (P&R), Ballycasey, Shannon Town, Shannon Industrial Est and finally the airport. They should also consider upgrading the track to Ennis with a commuter train to the Tipperary Rd., Parkway, Corbally, Watchhouse Cross, Moyross, Meelick, and Cratloe - using this daily between the Ennis/Limerick train times.

sorry little off topic here but are you saying that the tunnel road beside the crescent is gonna be dual carriage way? I can't imagine that, surely it can't be

I do like the sound of it travelling alongside the left side of the dual carriage way, would make the route a lot easier, though I can't see them having a stop in Bunratty is thats the case.

Poxyshamrock

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Absolutely. That is in fact a much better idea, instead of a sole rail line to the airport.

Perhaps a stop in limerick city also?

It's coming from the station so i presume that would be city centre enough for most people.

Liam Byrne

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Great Idea....would you not inform Irish Rail and the DoT by sending them this plan?

Just make sure that the Departmental Secretary is on holidays the week that you send it; otherwise Dopey Dempsey will never get to see it! :mad:

Apparently this is another great idea that's being shelved because of the Fianna Failures.....