URGENT Lobby NOW civil unions bill reintroduced

lgbt@labour.ie

Dear Friends

The Labour party is next week (Wed 31st Oct and Thurs 1st Nov) reintroducing the Civil Union Bill into the Dail.

We are encouraging people to contact in particular their representatives from Fianna Fail, The Green Party, The Progressive Democrats Party and Independent Finian McGrath and to ask them, in advance, how they intend to vote on Labour's Private Members motion and of course to forward their responses to campaigns@labour. ie

You can phone the Dáil at 01 618 3000 and ask to be put through to your local TD or send them an email. The contact details for members of the House can also be found at: http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/members_emails/30_Dail.doc


People should also contact their friends and let them know that this debate is taking place. Anyone who would like to attend the Dail debate on Wednesday, Oct 31st should contact either Cathy in Labour Party HQ at 6784700 or email: campaigns@labour. ie

Confirmation of attendance MUST be received by 11am on Wednesday, Oct 31st

You can find the bill summary here http://www.labour.ie/campaigns/listing/20061214124921.html

Boston

Isn't the bill fundamentally flawed somehow, requiring a referendum to become law? I'm not legal expert but from what i recall that was the consensus and reason given last time.

lgbt@labour.ie

Boston wrote: »

Isn't the bill fundamentally flawed somehow, requiring a referendum to become law? I'm not legal expert but from what i recall that was the consensus and reason given last time.

No

The Law Reform Commission have clearly stated that Civil Union which is similar in nature to marriage does not require a referendum

The_Minister

YAWN!!!
It was a sucky political stunt before the election, and its a sucky political stunt now. Read the discussion on politics.ie to get some (but nowhere near all) of the reasons that people in favour of civil partnerships aren't voting for this. Honestly, it's a bit wanky that you'd play the same mean trick with the hopes of an entire community twice, let alone once

lgbt@labour.ie

The_Minister wrote: »

YAWN!!!
It was a sucky political stunt before the election, and its a sucky political stunt now. Read the discussion on politics.ie to get some (but nowhere near all) of the reasons that people in favour of civil partnerships aren't voting for this. Honestly, it's a bit wanky that you'd play the same mean trick with the hopes of an entire community twice, let alone once

McDowell type catch all legislation is not what people want! - Even FF and PD TDs spoke in favour of this bill the last time out

“While the view of those of us on this side of the House is that a Second Reading of this Bill should be postponed for six months, we are very supportive of the spirit of the Bill”. Sean Power,

Minister for State,
Fianna Fail.

“The Minister [Michael McDowell] suggested the Bill would not survive a constitutional challenge. The All Party Committee on the Constitution took specific legal advice on this point during its hearings and received no such advice. There was no suggestion that legislation on the bundle of rights would be unconstitutional” .

Barry Andrews, Fianna Fail.

azezil

Did I hear this has past and will be implemented by next March?

L1011

azezil wrote: »

Did I hear this has past and will be implemented by next March?

Can't find anything to suggest that - it was only being reintroduced to the Dail today, it still has to pass the Seanad (which shouldn't be hard, to be honest; and all they can do is delay it anyway - its no House of Lords).

Although rte.ie has something to suggest that the govt. may be trying to hold this off (again) to bring in its own legislation.

WexfordMusings

The government in fact are destroying the bill so if you have a few minutes to spare please contact your local TD's and complain. In particular, contact the Green party as they voted for the Bill earlier this year but are now voting against it even though it is the very same bill.

The government have mentioned that they will publish the "heads" of their Bill by March 2008 but there is no further time frame available. If left to the FF'ers and Greens it will be years before LGBT get equal rights.

Remember "all the children of the nation shall be treated equally", so get phoning, emailing and pestering. Equality denied is Freedom denied...

The_Minister

gain, loath as I am to promote another board, politics.ie has a more balenced view.

WexfordMusings

voting is now, check the webcast

WexfordMusings

Dead, destroyed, gone, forgotten, consigned to oblivion...

66 votes to amend Civil Union Bill (ie destroy)

59 votes against amendment.

Where were all the rest?

WexfordMusings

If you feel the LGBT people should have equal rights under the law, fill out the petition linked below and contact the EAGLE teamon 086 3953846 or 085 1383798 to find out where to send your petition.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0M0pR5NcqXLbQiVWn8SZS7dynYbIkWXd02rD8ARzDafANe_Drt9A6FVQAcbGrgMCVD3N-3FvAlo_7c-i4mvwUgdc0vaCBTbsBkMxpzI/Petition%20no.%201.pdf

WexfordMusings

If you feel like doing a lttle more, there is a candle-lit vigil outside the Dail at 6.30pm next Thursday, thats the 8th November, so to coin a phrase from telethon "come on everybody"...

WexfordMusings

There seems to be a consus across this and other boards that the issue will take longer to resolve, that it is a complex issue that perhaps has constitutional limitations (although the AG's advice still has not been furnished to the Labour Party in order to defend or challange) but one thing is clear:

The LGBT community needs to come together on this issue, perhaps have a conference of sorts and come-up-with a definitive answer and list of demands. We must then as a whole fight for those rights as a cohesive group. One loud voice rather than loads of little small lady like squeeks...

Boston

the LGBT "community" will never speak with one voice on anything. Mainly because its just various groups of people lobbed together by the outside world.

Annasopra

The_Minister wrote: »

gain, loath as I am to promote another board, politics.ie has a more balenced view.

replace balenced (sic) with bigoted

WexfordMusings

Boston,

I disagree. In other countries, LGBT groups have joined forces on issues and i firmly believe that with one single, strong united voice we can achive more.

Just being negative and dissmissing the idea will not get us any better off. All of the LGBT groups need to put their differences aside and agree to work on this issue together.

John

Boston

And you see that happening?

anotherlostie

Is this a record for highest percentage of posts by one poster in a thread?

I agree this was pure cutehooredness by Labour trying to generate agitation when the government parties have a timetable agreed for this.

I will hold off on potential agitation until I see what the government offers.

Annasopra

WexfordMusings wrote: »

Boston,

I disagree. In other countries, LGBT groups have joined forces on issues and i firmly believe that with one single, strong united voice we can achive more.

Just being negative and dissmissing the idea will not get us any better off. All of the LGBT groups need to put their differences aside and agree to work on this issue together.

John

From experience that won't happen

WexfordMusings

anotherlost.ie

Waiting is fine, but FF have made promises before and havnt gotten the job done. Mc Donut was looking at the issue back in March of 2006 and didnt do anything. In fact all he did do was stand in the way of Labours Civil Union Bill earlier this year. Bertie Basset promised back in the summer of 2006 that the issue would be looked at and lo-and-behold, it wasnt. The Green party earlier this year gave full backing and support for Equality but turned on their tails last week. How long do we wait. We have been waiting since 1993. Just because I feel strongly on the issue, this shouldnt bar me from posting. In fact if you look at other boards (angry potato, gcn, gaycork, and especially gaire) I have post even more on the topic.

Johnnymcg,

I fully understand your disallusionment and have experienced it from other members of the community, but for now, I will not allow it to dishearten me.

John

Hmm_Messiah

WexfordMusings wrote: »

.
I fully understand your disallusionment and have experienced it from other members of the community, but for now, I will not allow it to dishearten me.

John

Personally I've never really got this idea of "community" but maybe thats a distraction.

However if there is some right I am denied that would want it for me, as a person, an individual, and a citizen.

I am not surprised by the delays in legislation but I guess that its tabled and discussed is itself progress. Cynically I believe that Irish politicians will always tend to wait for some overwhelming consensus from society - so when they feel the masses are OK with it (and it won't affect their votes) they will go with it .

markw999

There was an article in the papers a few days ago saying that if the bill was to pass, they didn't want to give same-sex couples (and all other couples included in the bill) the same tax rights etc, because apparently the government would lose 2 billion euro a year. I say, tough ****.

Take the example of a husband and wife. The wife traditionally pays a lower rate of tax than the husband (or vice versa). This would not happen for same-sex couples, with both partners being in the higher tax-bracket because they are same sex. Now if that isn't discrimination, I don't know what is.

I also remember reading that this bill is different from the green party bill that they tried to bring in, which they themselves have voted down.

Also, everyone, once again, the Candlelit vigil/protest is outside the Dail today at 6.30 p.m.. The more people that go the better as they really seemed to take notice of the number of people who showed up for the last demonstration.

chambers

surely the best thing about being gay or lesbian is that you don't have to get married..stop this civil union thing..but they should definitly allow any partners to all the same tax benefits as straight people..i think all marriage should be banned whether gay or straight..it just stops the fun,don't you think..:)

Marshy

chambers wrote: »

i think all marriage should be banned whether gay or straight..it just stops the fun,don't you think..:)

That'd be the day