Propsed VRT Changes in Budget 2008

Meister

Hi, Anybody have any info on what our overlord masters are planning?

Henry Ford III

They do, but won't tell us until the budget. It'll be a change to emissions based taxes I'd imagine.

Ponitless speculating how much and where as yet.

MrVostro

I hear they are planning to increase road tax cars over 1.6L petrol and diesel and decrease the road tax on bio fuel and hybrid cars

unkel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ponitless speculating how much and where as yet.

Indeed. Let's wait for the budget

E92

Whatever they do you can be sure it won't benefit your arse pocket.

I have reason to believe that there will be a 35% VRT rate:eek::mad:, and it will still be somewhat based on engine size.

Something along the lines of this AFAIK. I don't have a Crystal Ball, but I read it in a newspaper and in the departmental consultation they were think along these lines.


<1400 cc, 0<146 g/km: 17.5%, 146-190 g/km: 22.5%, >190 g/km: 27.5%.

1401-1900 cc, 0<146 g/km: 20%, 146-190 g/km: 25%, >190 g/km: 30%

>1900 cc, 0<146 g/km: 25%, 146-190 g/km:30%, >190 g/km: 35%

seanpaul

VRT hey? Can’t believe those criminals in suits in the Dail actually had the balls to break every convention and ethic ever to come out of the European Union, about freedom of movement of goods and people, excuse my French.....but it’s total merde!

I think Irish consumers and car owners need to find the collective balls to start kicking up a hell of a fuss in Brussels to wake some of those overpaid bureaucrats up a bit. I guess the French and Germans (masters of Europe) don’t give a dam that the rulers of the Irish Republic are artificially keeping car prices in Ireland sky rocket high by blocking free entry of cars from other EU countries and by preventing Irish customers for benefiting from open competition.

I am an economics graduate and I say, it’s an absolute disgrace! Talk about free markets and I start to laugh!

Oh, the EU told the Irish Government that it was bringing in new laws that stipulate that all EU countries should only base registration of cars around emissions, thus we see the Department for Finance attempting to work something into the VRT system...they may have no morals in making sure the Irish people pay way over the odds for cars, but they’re not stupid when it comes to new ideas to get around EU Law. – watch out?

Let me say this: if someone challenged the absolute criminality of the VRT system and got it scrapped, what would happen to the Irish Economy and Irish Hospitals when there is no VRT in the coffers of the State, I fear a one billion Euro deficit might not go down that well.

Stand up and shout about VRT and write to the EU and make a fuss! I will lead from the front.....I have written to them already, I got a long and complicated response, that basically said it was illegal but that the Irish Government used a loop-hole in the Law by keeping it as a local Registration Fee

---

yet who has the last laugh, the boys and girls in the VRT office who decided to call it Vehicle Registration Tax!

Boom boom!

Sean

bucks

Sadly it wont make a difference if VRT is scrapped (which it wont be) in the morning, they will just tax us on something else to make up the deficit...

Where else will they get the money for badly planned projects, overspending, td wage increases...

cantdecide

Didn't the green party say that if the VRT was scrapped and the tax was claimed on trh fuels itself (which is so unconvoluted it's DEVASTATINGLY simple and relevant, Bertie) it would add up to like 2.5c per litre?

Esel

Read a couple of months ago that the 50% VRT rebate on biofuel/green cars is not to be renewed.

Henry Ford III

esel wrote: »

Read a couple of months ago that the 50% VRT rebate on biofuel/green cars is not to be renewed.

The current scheme ends on 31/12/07. I'd imagine it will be extended and possibly improved on.

galwaytt

cantdecide wrote: »

Didn't the green party say that if the VRT was scrapped and the tax was claimed on trh fuels itself (which is so unconvoluted it's DEVASTATINGLY simple and relevant, Bertie) it would add up to like 2.5c per litre?

well there was an article in a truck trade journal the other day where the Greens proposal would be to replace VRT entirely with a fuel tax. The magazine has calculated that it would add 33c per litre.

Yes - Thirty Three..............not Three-point-three......

FFS!

I really hope that the people, when next they get the chance to do so, vote with their...........wheels (?)....and see just how much this fake greeness is actually costing. It's a complete fraud...........

Seth Brundle

Was there something in the Irish Times recently about how this was being long fingered?

galwaytt

ok then - here's a little puzzler for you: to tax, or not to tax........that is the question.

If car tax goes AWOL, it would be prudent to tax the car a.s.a.p. ( http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055170052 ) for a full year........

but I probably won't keep it a year.............so if I taxed for 6 mths......and then found myself keeping it after that..........god know how much I could get hammered for.

BTW - November is always the best month to tax, as, you get 12 months at the 'old' rate, the new rates coming in at beginning of December (budget).......I had a contre-temps with tax office on this before, where they tried to charge the new (budget) rates ahead of time (they just used the date of the announcement, willy-nilly, it seems...........). Got it at the 'old/prevailing' rate though, in the end............

Owen

Christ. I'd better VRT my yoke so, it's spitting out 206g/km out of it's little 1.6 engine, although it hasn't been on the road since I brought it in and instead lives under a fleece lined cover in my garage. Still though, I'd much rather pay 25% of OMSP now, rather than 30% of OMSP if E92 is correct!

Henry Ford III

ned78 wrote: »

Christ. I'd better VRT my yoke so, it's spitting out 206g/km out of it's little 1.6 engine, although it hasn't been on the road since I brought it in and instead lives under a fleece lined cover in my garage. Still though, I'd much rather pay 25% of OMSP now, rather than 30% of OMSP if E92 is correct!

Naughty boy Ned Rules state you must reregister (and pay VRT on) any car imported the next working day, irrespective of whether it's being used or not.

Owen

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Naughty boy Ned Rules state you must reregister (and pay VRT on) any car imported the next working day, irrespective of whether it's being used or not.

Well, if I had the intention of making it a track car, and it never seeing the road, it would be a different matter, eh?

ballooba

Given that Brian Cowen is a bit strapped for cash atm I can't see him making changes which will result in lower costs.

Henry Ford III

ned78 wrote: »

Well, if I had the intention of making it a track car, and it never seeing the road, it would be a different matter, eh?

Just out of interest would that make any difference to the VRT position?

Seth Brundle

If it will never be driven on Irish public roads then its not subject to VRT.

Henry Ford III

Really? Is it detailed anywhere officially? I'd consider buying a track car if this is correct.

craichoe

galwaytt wrote: »

well there was an article in a truck trade journal the other day where the Greens proposal would be to replace VRT entirely with a fuel tax. The magazine has calculated that it would add 33c per litre.

Yes - Thirty Three..............not Three-point-three......

FFS!

I really hope that the people, when next they get the chance to do so, vote with their...........wheels (?)....and see just how much this fake greeness is actually costing. It's a complete fraud...........

Replace VRT with a fuel tax .... are you on drugs ?
Maybe you mean road tax with a fuel tax and tbh i'd welcome it, its worked in other countries and it could work here.

Pay for what you drive is much fairer than a blanket tax no matter how much you use the road network !

ambro25

cantdecide wrote:

Didn't the green party say that if the VRT was scrapped and the tax was claimed on trh fuels itself (which is so unconvoluted it's DEVASTATINGLY simple and relevant, Bertie) it would add up to like 2.5c per litre?

Well, if it's 2.5c, there's currently weekly variations at the pump of up to double that (5c) in South Dublin (and have been for a looong time).

But if it's 33c (as posted further on), then considering how many litres of fuel must be sold each and everyday in Ireland, it gives you a nice appreciation of the scale of the scam, eh?

craichoe wrote:

Pay for what you drive is much fairer than a blanket tax no matter how much you use the road network !

Pay for what you use is fairer than paying for what you drive.
"Paying for what you drive" is already done through VAT.
If you wear the tarmac/pollute the air twice as much as me, it stands to reason that your should pay twice as much as me.

Alun

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Really? Is it detailed anywhere officially? I'd consider buying a track car if this is correct.

VRT is a Vehicle Registration Tax. If you don't register it, i.e. give it a licence plate number, you don't pay it.

Owen

I've got to say, I'd love to have a fuel based tax and insurance system, but I'd settle for a tax system. However, the Government wouldn't be happy withthe likes of my 65 year old Mother and her 1.3 litre Starlet. Currently, they screw her out of her 272 Euro a year, and she does approx 5k miles. And there was the original VRT too, so for people like her, they'll continue to charge charge charge, and get money for jam.

MrVostro

i hear they are planning on increasing tax on bigger engine cars while halfing it on hybrid/bio fel cars etc.
They will take a lot more money than they are giving back that way while looking like they have our best interests at heart.

Henry Ford III

Alun wrote: »

VRT is a Vehicle Registration Tax. If you don't register it, i.e. give it a licence plate number, you don't pay it.

I realise this Alun, but my understanding was you are obliged to register it, like it or not.

RobAMerc

MrVostro wrote: »

i hear they are planning on increasing tax on bigger engine cars while halfing it on hybrid/bio fel cars etc.
They will take a lot more money than they are giving back that way while looking like they have our best interests at heart.

That would be about right -

Half road tax on hybrids then get rid of the vrt rebate - those slimey f*ckers

Owen

MrVostro wrote: »

i hear they are planning on increasing tax on bigger engine cars while halfing it on hybrid/bio fel cars etc.

Hybrids are the biggest Con since the Catholic Church. Not only do the majority of the hybrids on sale return poor mpg figures, and have a very serious environmental impact upon the end of their lives, ie : what the hell to do with the battery packs? At the moment, a modern diesel engine can return a substantially higher mpg figure, emmissions on a par with a hybrid, and will have no issue with battery disposal upon end of life.

Toyota Prius (From Wiki, and Toyota.ie) spits out 104g/km CO2, and returns a real world 45-50mpg. The new MINI Cooper Diesel (Yes, I know I sell them, but the Motoring press is constantly comparing the two, I'd have chosen something else preferrably to compare with) spits out the same 104g/km, and returns a real world 68mpg.

Hybrids should be given bugger all rebates/discounts!

E92

ned78 wrote: »

Hybrids are the biggest Con since the Catholic Church. Not only do the majority of the hybrids on sale return poor mpg figures, and have a very serious environmental impact upon the end of their lives, ie : what the hell to do with the battery packs? At the moment, a modern diesel engine can return a substantially higher mpg figure, emmissions on a par with a hybrid, and will have no issue with battery disposal upon end of life.

Toyota Prius (From Wiki, and Toyota.ie) spits out 104g/km CO2, and returns a real world 45-50mpg. The new MINI Cooper Diesel (Yes, I know I sell them, but the Motoring press is constantly comparing the two, I'd have chosen something else preferrably to compare with) spits out the same 104g/km, and returns a real world 68mpg.

Hybrids should be given bugger all rebates/discounts!

Agreed 100% ned. I've stated a million times why I don't like them and why they are a waste of our time and money on boards. there are plenty of threads on the topic(often started by me).

A petrol that can manage the emissions of a hybrid is far cleaner. No batteries, much cheaper and more energy effiucient to build, less weight etc.

The E60 5 series 6 pot petrols(never mind the diesels) produce less CO2 emissions than the lexus GS Hybrid. And thats on petrol technology alone.

The E65 730d, Audi A8 are all more efficient than the LS600h. The A8 produces 20 g/km less of CO2(than the Lexus), the 730d I think it is about 10. the polo Bluemotion produces a mere 99 g/km of CO2, the Prius 104 g/km. No idea if VW will bring in the Bluemotion Polo, but it would be no harm to draw the rest of Europe's attention to this fact.

Why don't BMW, VW and Audi shout about this more?

BMW in particular, they have several Hybrid beating models. What are the marketing people there for, when somebody who has nothing to do with the motor trade can tell them what to do. It seems so bloody obvious to me.

If you have a FFV car and you run it on E85, you reduce CO2 by up to 80% instantly, no fancy batteries etc. So long as the E85 is produce in an enviornmentally friendly manner, this will be the case.

And to cap it all off, Honda thinks that hybrids are only good on small cars.

They are not bothering with Hybrids for anything bigger than a Civic, as they say that a diesel will be more efficient. A small petrol Hybrid will have no emissions around town, hence why they are backing it.

honda don't think that hybrids are good enough for their new NSX or their Type-R models.

they think diesel is though.

They are in the process of developing a diesel type-R Civic.

See here for the non Hybrid NSX, here for the diesel Type-R, here for their plans for only small cars will be Hybrids, and at the end it says:
Honda believes hybrids are best suited to smaller, mostly city-based models. They would then spend more of their time running on battery power, helping to cut down CO2.

Honda is developing a range of clean diesel engines for out-of-town use, believing these are more efficient than hybrids at higher speeds.


Lastly, new super clean Euro 6 diesels are on the way, for more info, see here


Now ned, my figure about new VRT rates a only a suggestion about what might happen, I have no crystal ball, so until they actually come out with the figures, lets wait and see!

I am firmly of the view that an emissions tax should be just that, no reductions because of the type of fuel, no extra tax because of engine size etc.

craichoe

ambro25 wrote: »

Well, if it's 2.5c, there's currently weekly variations at the pump of up to double that (5c) in South Dublin (and have been for a looong time).

But if it's 33c (as posted further on), then considering how many litres of fuel must be sold each and everyday in Ireland, it gives you a nice appreciation of the scale of the scam, eh?



Pay for what you use is fairer than paying for what you drive.
"Paying for what you drive" is already done through VAT.
If you wear the tarmac/pollute the air twice as much as me, it stands to reason that your should pay twice as much as me.

Aye .. thats what i meant ... Bit sleepy this morning

Esel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The current scheme ends on 31/12/07. I'd imagine it will be extended and possibly improved on.

You imagine, I read!