New case & gfx and more RAM

Den_M

Hi, I'm thinking of sprucing up my Dell Dimension dm051 with a new case, a new gfx card and some more RAM.

The RAM should be a straightforward enough purchase, just another 2gb to bring me up to 4 (thats the max I can have anyway)

For the rest i was thinking of

this

(anyone have experience with Dabs own brand cards?)

and

this

(Problems is, my dimension case seems to be in BTX format)



does this mean theres no way I can use an atx one?

highlydebased

I was going to buy the Dabs Alien case. But I didnt when I read the reviews- LED's burning/melting, crap PSU (well that might not affect you if you put your dell's PSU into it

AlmightyCushion

I'm not 100% sure but I think dell use btx motherboards. For this you would need a btx case.

Edit: I didn't read all of your post. You will need a btx case.

Den_M

The dabs case comes with a 480w psu but I've heard it a pretty crappy one. I wouldnt put my dell psu into it as I'm not sure if it'd handle the 1950pro. I guess maybe buying a new psu and putting into a btx case would be the way to go?

Den_M

Just had a look at my psu and its 305w. The dell case isnt that bad actually, a little cramped (naturally), but it does have that cooling enclosure thing at the front and opening it up it real easy.

The cooling factor worries me though as I have a pentium d processor and they're infamous for heat. If i stick the 1950 pro in there would I be straining the psu and/or generating too much heat?

Had a look on a couple of sites and it seems for every 100 atx cases for sale theres one btx one.

AlmightyCushion

The pro should be fine with that psu. BTX isn't really that popular so you will have trouble finding cases for it. I'd say you are better off sticking with the dell case.

Den_M

So after the upgrade i should have a 3.4 pentium D, 4gb RAM and a 512mb x1950pro...

Is that enough to keep me going for a while? I'm not too bothered about running future games at high res or anything, it's more about what's been out for the last 2 years or so and maybe Quake Wars

The processor will be a weak point I guess but upgrading to anything recent will mean a new mobo I assume?

Den_M

I did the system scan at crucial.com and got this..

Maximum Memory Capacity: 8192MB
Currently Installed Memory: 2GB
Available Memory Slots: 2
Number of Banks: 4

Is there a difference between a slot and a bank? Do I have 2 or 4 of these? i had a look in my pc and there seems to be 4 slots with the 1st and last filled, the middle 2 empty. Does this sound right. It also says I can go up to 8gb, whereas I though t the max was 4gb. Does this depend on what bit OS I'm running?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

edit: did a little more research and it seems that the mobo also determines how much RAM will be recognised, this true?

AlmightyCushion

Slots and banks are the same thing. If you are using a 32 bit the max amount of memory your computer will see is around 3.5GBs.

Den_M

I'm using XP home SP2 which is 32-bit. XP 64-bit is supposed to support up to 128gb (not that I'd be going anything even near that) but could my mobo also restrict me to 4/8gb? Also, are most games and apps going to work with 64-bit XP easily or would they need some kind of software (emulator or whatever?)

Anti

You really wont need more then 4gb of ram for a while yet. And on a 32bit os its not worth going over as you just wont see more then 3.25gb.

As for the graphics card, i would reccomend you buy a 256mb version. As unless you pair it with a high end cpu and run games at stupidly high resolutions you just wont see any benefit of having 512mb of ram.

Also the x1950 series cards are very good on power, so you wont need a new psu. And even if you did, you would have a hard time finding one, as in alot of dells cases they use strange sized psu's. So unless you fancy getting busy with a dremel its best to leave it as it is.

And yes, all apps/games etc etc will work in a 64bit enviroment. The os will emulate it by its self with not hit in performance. There have been a few dificulties, but by simply right clicking the .exe and going to compatibility and settign it to win xp sp2 it will work fine.

Den_M

Thanks for the advice Anti. I actually ordered from dabs.ie last night, but had the order cancelled due to the fact that they didnt accept my AIB maestro piece of crap card.

Another question - what exactly does 'Lite Retail' mean for a gfx card?

TerrorFirmer

Den_M wrote: »

So after the upgrade i should have a 3.4 pentium D, 4gb RAM and a 512mb x1950pro...

Is that enough to keep me going for a while? I'm not too bothered about running future games at high res or anything, it's more about what's been out for the last 2 years or so and maybe Quake Wars

The processor will be a weak point I guess but upgrading to anything recent will mean a new mobo I assume?

Like Anti said if you're paying more money for the 512mb don't; by the time you hit a resolution that needed more memory the Pentium D would start limiting your performance anyway. The card will be good for Quake Wars at 1280x1024 high settings no problems, and given the friendly engine probably higher without any concerns. But really anything from the last 2 years will run flawlessly on that card. Unless you have an exceptionally large monitor.

What Card did you order? Because I remember reading several times about people buying cards with large double slot coolers that wouldn't physically fit due to the cpu heatsink in Dell machines - not sure what specific models, but make sure you check inside your case - if worst comes to the worse the sapphire x1950gt/x1950pro are both single slot coolers and 109/127 respectively on komplett.

Lite Retail means it comes with no bundled software or anything like that. Basically, just the card and drivers. But I'm not 100% on that (as to what exactly does and doesn't come with a lite retail card) and open to correction.

Den_M

The card that I ordered (and need to re-order) is this one

http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4N0Q&CategorySelectedId=11137&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11137,43990000,43280000

I dont like the idea of limiting myself to 256mb, even if it unlikely that I'll get to use half of it, especially when that cards so cheap

TerrorFirmer

Well to be honest at that price, why not? It's as cheap as the 256mb versions. But really, you won't need the 512mb with your system. But again it's a nice bonus for the same price and if it gives you peace of mind then..:D

If you really wanted to go into what's limiting you, it's the Pentium D to be honest.

Den_M

Yep, thats true. How much would we be talking for a new motherboard and decent cpu to give enough of a kick and still not break the bank?

TerrorFirmer

If the Dell is BTX then you have problems. My recommendation would just be to start fresh and forget about trying to kit out the Dell as it is. Given that you already own the Dell, you can even do it in stages. You already have the optical drive, cpu, some ram, hard drive etc you could get by with just a new case, psu and board first, and then add components later as you can afford them - better cpu, video card, more ram, etc.

If you started fresh entirely, you could build a budget machine for about 500 that would handle games considerably well and would have a far greater scope for upgrading then the Dell. Here's an example: Note the components are cheap and would really not be those of choice for any enthusiast but someone just literally looking to get a machine on a really tight budget it'd do and has relatively good upgrading prospects (limited overclocking, crossfire, etc).

In your case you could ditch the optical drive, hard drive, and some of the ram as you already own them and invest it back in a better psu and/or cpu.

Den_M

Really appreciate the help havok. The mobo above - do you know if its compatible with both pentium d and dual core? i like the idea of getting a new case/psu/mobo first

TerrorFirmer

Yeah, no problem. But keep in mind that the above is only a guideline. You can get even cheaper mobo's that will still do the job fine. Or you could spent a little more to get a board with good overclocking options (which is always great in a budget build). I Picked the Asrock because it has limited overclocking, is a fairly reliable board and you can use crossfire. The case was just one I like the look of for a fairly cheap price too....loads more to check out on Komplett. Not to mention other sites - Hardwareversand.de have some exceptionally good prices too.

Den_M

Would it be advisable to get a mobo that can support quad core or would just core 2 duo do? Does almost every motherboard come with a pci express slot as standard these day?

TerrorFirmer

It depends on what angle you're looking at. If you're going really tight budget, I'd be inclined to leave it out, you can always change later and a fast dual core will last for a long time yet. But if you're willing to spend a bit extra then yes by all means I would go for that option. This looks OK for a good cheap board.

Yes every motherboard will have a pci-e slot. Some have 2, which can be very handy for adding a second graphics card later to boost performance without paying high upgrade costs. Any board with 2 Pci-e slots can run crossfire - which is not the case with sli. This would be a good cheap one for crossfire, this would be a better one but costs slightly more and if you're not overclocking* then the first one would be OK. This would be a good one for Sli and reasonably cheap.

*I'm assuming the MSI is crap for overclocking, as I've owned two MSI boards in the past few months and both are terrible for overclocking, so unless they've changed very recently.... But you can get around 600mhz increase on the two boards I've used, just you can't raise the fsb any higher then a predetermined limit. So if you buy a cheap 2160 you can overclock it to 2.3-2.4Ghz easily. Which is more then enough for anyone playing games or doing otherwise apart from exceptionally large amounts of ripping, encoding, burning, etc. So if you're not an overclocker the MSI board would be good as it does give you very limited space and is cheap.

sdanseo

Would this not be a better GFX card for just €28 more?

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=326957

I'm sure I saw the 512MB version on Komplett for a similar price but can't find it.

TerrorFirmer

Yeah but the point being if you're on an extreme budget.

There's also this on dabs which is the 512mb version for a few euro less

http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4N0Q&CategorySelectedId=11137&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11137,43990000,43280000

Den_M

Whats the difference between this
this

and

this?

The former seems to have a faster memory and core clock speed but is only a few quid cheaper. I assume the chipset is completely different, does that make a difference?

TerrorFirmer

Completely different cards, the 2600XT supports Dx10 but otherwise it's inferior to the X1950Pro. Don't bother with it, poor value for money.