paramilitaries?

purple'n'gold

Why on earth does RTE insist on calling murderous gangster thugs, paramilitaries?
I’m referring to the murder in Co. Monaghan earlier today/yesterday.

FlutterinBantam

No fcukin idea son.

Expand a bit on your theory if you wouldn't mind.

eroo

maybe because they are!?
also,the Gardai havent ruled out there involvement.after all,he was from south armagh and it was reported the incident could be related to fuel smuggling....you work it out from there

purple'n'gold

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No fcukin idea son.

Expand a bit on your theory if you wouldn't mind.

Ok, the gendarmerie in France is properly described as a paramilitary force. They are a (legal) military force outside the control of the army. RTE are talking about murderous gangsters, and to describe them as paramilitaries seems to give them some sort of status

Terry

I second that.

you have given us absolutely nothing to go on.

Links would be nice. Links and text from the story would be even better.

purple'n'gold

I don’t have a link to the story; it was an item on the 6’0 clock news.

mike65

The is about some fella abducted in Monaghan and beaten to death by 15 "paramilitary" types. They use the term as its shorthand for RIRA/CIRA/PIRA etc. they don;t know which yet and even if they did, if it was anyone in the P-IRA they'd proberly not prefer not to say so. Paramilitary is a handily vague term.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1021/castleblayney.html

Terry

rte.ie wrote:

Appeal for information after Monaghan death
Sunday, 21 October 2007 17:54

Gardaí investigating the death of a 21-year-old man following an assault in Co Monaghan have appealed for anyone with information to come forward.

The victim was from Cullyhanna in Co Armagh.

It is believed he was lured to farm outhouses at Tullycoora near the village of Oram yesterday afternoon by a phone call from friends who were already there.

It is understood they were forced to make the call.

When the victim arrived, he was separated from the others, taken to an outhouse at the rear of the site and savagely beaten with crowbars and other implements by a gang of around seven to eight people.

He sustained a number of broken bones.

He was still conscious when gardaí arrived at the scene shortly after 6pm but died two hours later at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda.

Two men, who it is believed were also assaulted at the outhouses later arrived at Daisyhill Hospital in Newry for treatment.

The scene remains sealed off as garda forensic experts continue to search the area for clues.

Gardaí say it is very early in their investigation and say they are keeping an open mind about the reasons for the assault.

However, it is understood that one avenue may be related to diesel laundering operations.

Gardaí also said the possibility of paramilitary involvement has not yet been ruled in or out of their investigation.

The PSNI and the gardaí are liasing in the investigation.

No arrests have yet been made but the garda leading the investigation, Supt Karl Heller, has appealed for anyone with information to come forward and contact the incident room in Castleblayney garda station on 042-9746138.

A post mortem examination will be conducted on the victim's remains tomorrow.

When gardaí get the cause of death, it is expected this will then become a murder investigation.

An SDLP politician has said the death has caused widespread revulsion on both sides of the border.

Dominic Bradley, MLA for Newry and Armagh, said a gang of up to 15 masked men were involved in the attack.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1021/castleblayney.html

purple'n'gold

That I understand, but the point I am trying to make is that using the term paramilitary instead of criminals or gangsters is somehow giving these thugs some sort of status.

mike65

Answers.com definitons

http://www.answers.com/paramilitary&r=67

Mike.

purple'n'gold

Not getting too far into definitions, my point is that RTE should not be calling these people paramilitaries. They don’t call the drug gangs paramilitaries, so why call these gangsters paramilitaries?

Agamemnon

mike65 wrote: »

Answers.com definitons

http://www.answers.com/paramilitary&r=67

Mike.

Well going by that definition, republican terrorists aren't paramilitaries because they don't "operate in place of or assist regular army troops", but loyalist terrorists are paramilitaries because of their history of collusion.

togster

Jaysus why does it fcukin matter?

purple'n'gold

Thugs and gangsters should get their proper title, not be endowed with a respectful title.

Terry

paramilitary

adjective
1. of or relating to a group of civilians organized to function like or to assist a military unit

noun
1. a group of civilians organized in a military fashion (especially to operate in place of or to assist regular army troops)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/paramilitary

mike65

I would'nt mind betting this use of the word came into being in the early 70s when the IRA might have been seen by the media down here as somehow 'right' and not entirely bad.

Terrorist is such a loaded term after all.

Mike.

purple'n'gold

I would'nt mind betting this use of the word came into being in the early 70s when the IRA might have been seen by the media down here as somehow 'right' and not entirely bad.

I suspect your right. They probably didn’t want to be seen to be calling the IRA terrorists. I wonder where that directive came from. The news readers or editors didn’t do it off ther own bat.

mike65

Thats a whole saga in itself (stickies v republicans)

Mike.

tallus

togster wrote: »

Jaysus why does it fcukin matter?

+1.
I think the dogs on the street could tell you that the term paramilitary when used in Ireland is usually in connection with any of the various groups who have been involved in the troubles, and is not in any way a complimentary term.
So why start a thread over it ? should you not be more concerned that one person is dead and another is in hospital, and you're arguing about the tag that the scumbags who inflicted the damage were given by the media.

Hagar

purplengold wrote: »

Ok, the gendarmerie in France is properly described as a paramilitary force. They are a (legal) military force outside the control of the army.

No they are not. They are a part of the French Army under direct chain of command.

Senna

its in no way a good term or better term than thug.
i alway though they use the word paramilitary when they suspect its a member of the RIRA, IRA, UDA, whatever. but without mentioning a group name. and so laying blame on one of these organizations rather than the average small-time thug.
their providing more information that say garda suspect a thug.

philstar

purplengold wrote: »

Thugs and gangsters should get their proper title, not be endowed with a respectful title.

but is paramilitary a respectful title?? to me it means a terrorist organisation

eroo

who gives a ****?are we offending the supposed paramilitaries who have 'earned' the title then?

this is a pointless thread,you dont like paramilitaries being called paramilitaries?:(
does anyone know where i can buy a violin?

Hagar

The last thing we need is more violins. (violence)

I'll get me coat...

Red Hand

What we need is/are peas (peace).

eroo

Hagar wrote: »

The last thing we meed is more violins. (violence)

I'll get me coat...

sorry,we dont have a coat hanger in this thread!you'd best check the bedroom,they are probably on the bed:p

Capt'n Midnight

mike65 wrote: »

I would'nt mind betting this use of the word came into being in the early 70s when the IRA might have been seen by the media down here as somehow 'right' and not entirely bad.

Terrorist is such a loaded term after all.

Mike.

what was that quote from Yes Minister
Freedom Fighters are on our side
Terrorists are on their side and it's Guerillas when we aren't sure.

It's been a very long time since the various gangs of thugs/murderers/protection racket/drug dealers/bank robbers up north have been really political apart from the necessity of PR with a certain sub section of the local community

philstar

philstar wrote: »

but is paramilitary a respectful title?? to me it means a terrorist organisation

Though RTÉ seem to like using the word "dissident" rather than terrorist. I remember it most during the post 9/11 Afghan war.

Voipjunkie

It is just a generic term that identifies the culprits as being linked to some political cause ( whether they are or are not is irrelevant at the moment) as opposed to criminals who are just in it to line their own pockets.

Whether you believe there is any difference between them is irrelevant the revelance is that if it is PIRA for example then that has a lot more connotations politically than just a bunch of crims killing this young fella.

Obviously it has not been established at this stage whether is is the PIRA or CIRA or INLA or RIRA or former members of one or more of these groups so the generic term paramilitary is used as a cover all and to highlight the possible political consequence.

The fact that the term paramilitary was used means that we now know that it may have been one of these groups if the term criminal gang for example was just used that would not tell us anything really and could allow the political wings of these organisations to mask the possible involvement of these groups.

Outer Bongolia

I wonder if these 'paramilitaries' have any links with the 'Basque Separatist Group ETA'

mise_me_fein

eroo wrote: »

maybe because they are!?
also,the Gardai havent ruled out there involvement.after all,he was from south armagh and it was reported the incident could be related to fuel smuggling....you work it out from there

Maybe they used to be involved and now they're carrying out their own wishes.

You really think an order came from the top to carry this out?

eldeabroad

Stereonick wrote: »

I wonder if these 'paramilitaries' have any links with the 'Basque Separatist Group ETA'

why?

Tigger

originaly posted by wikipediea which means i could have written it to prove a point:
Depending on context, paramilitaries can include:

Military forces outside the army, e.g. gendarmeries and forces such as the Indian Paramilitary Forces and People's Armed Police.
Illegal forces which consider themselves military but which governments consider terrorist, e.g. Provisional IRA, Ulster Volunteer Force, AUC, guerrillas.
Private armies and militias.
Militarized preexisting government agencies, such as SWAT teams. [2]
Auxiliary services of regular armed forces, such as the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary and the adult portion of the Civil Air Patrol.
Youth groups and movements that can be considered 'militarized' to various degrees, the Hitler Youth movement being perhaps the most notorious example. Less nefarious modern examples include miltary cadet movements like the Royal Canadian Air Cadets, the American Civil Air Patrol and India's National Cadet Corps. Whether various global Boy Scout organizations fill the necessary criteria today or historically is a topic of debate.