Beer,meat and the pill

oneeyedsnake

I recently heard that muslim check out staff were refusing to sell alcohol and non halal meat to customers in the UK. Pharmacist were refusing to dispense the pill,and medical student were refusing to attend lectures about sexually transmitted diseases and were also refusing to answer exam questions on that material.
Is it just me or is this an absolute disgrace, first of all they try to blot out Christmas by saying cribs “offend” them, than they try to destroy free speech by having a hissy fit over some genuinely hilarious comics, and now this.
What do people think?

Cuddlesworth

oneeyedsnake wrote: »

I recently heard that muslim check out staff were refusing to sell alcohol and non halal meat to customers in the UK. Pharmacist were refusing to dispense the pill,and medical student were refusing to attend lectures about sexually transmitted diseases and were also refusing to answer exam questions on that material.
Is it jsu me or is this an absolute disgrace, first of all they try to blot out Christmas by saying cribs “offend” them, than they try to destroy free speech by having a hissy fit over some genuinely hilarious comics, and now this.
What do people think?

I think that you can either come up with some actual proof that this is happening or I am filing it away in my mind under racist dribble.

If the shop is Muslim owned, they have the right not to sell certain items. Any shop staff who object to something on religious grounds that imposes on others their religious beliefs can be fired.

Kids and parents are entitled to learn what they want and let their children let what they want them to learn. Its a parents right.

Catholics cried out for years about condoms, burned "witch's" at the stake and have taken every opportunity to complain about films which depict God or Jesus in a un-holy manor. It just that nobody cares any more. What sells papers is angry Muslims and bigots like you read it.

Karoma

I HEARD THEY EATED CHILDREN!!



OP: Care to your post up with anything?

oneeyedsnake

krazy_8s wrote: »

I think that you can either come up with some actual proof that this is happening or I am filing it away in my mind under racist dribble.

If the shop is Muslim owned, they have the right not to sell certain items. Any shop staff who object to something on religious grounds that imposes on others their religious beliefs can be fired.

Kids and parents are entitled to learn what they want and let their children let what they want them to learn. Its a parents right.

Catholics cried out for years about condoms, burned "witch's" at the stake and have taken every opportunity to complain about films which depict God or Jesus in a un-holy manor. It just that nobody cares any more. What sells papers is angry Muslims and bigots like you read it.

Here is the link: http://www.student-direct.co.uk/?q=node/839

Kintarō Hattori

Hmnnn...

mc nuggets

I thought that judging by the thread title the content would be a lot more fun

Cuddlesworth

oneeyedsnake wrote: »

Here is the link: http://www.student-direct.co.uk/?q=node/839

www.student-direct.co.uk wrote:

Muslim students in Manchester are not refusing to attend lectures or answer exam questions on sensitive issues

Either thats a typo or its a get out clause for a bad article.

Tigger

Karoma wrote: »

I HEARD THEY EATED CHILDREN!!



OP: Care to your post up with anything?

i herd they brought kids here to sacrafice them

Terry

krazy_8s wrote: »

I think that you can either come up with some actual proof that this is happening or I am filing it away in my mind under racist dribble.

If the shop is Muslim owned, they have the right not to sell certain items. Any shop staff who object to something on religious grounds that imposes on others their religious beliefs can be fired.

Kids and parents are entitled to learn what they want and let their children let what they want them to learn. Its a parents right.

Catholics cried out for years about condoms, burned "witch's" at the stake and have taken every opportunity to complain about films which depict God or Jesus in a un-holy manor. It just that nobody cares any more. What sells papers is angry Muslims and bigots like you read it.

Careful now.

Firetrap

I would like it better if they refused to sell James Blunt CDs and cans of Dutch Mould

keefg

rbd wrote: »

i herd they brought kids here to sacrafice them

Not quite, "They" bring their kids here alright but only to run the tax office in Naas where they embezzle our road tax funds back to Azbejecestainia.

IT'S "THEIR" FAULT OUT ROADS ARE IN SUCH A STATE (Shakes fist)

ixoy

It's been in "The Sunday Times", a fairly reputable source - the OP has got it mostly right.

What's happening is that in some M&S stores in England, Muslim till workers who believe alcohol offends their religion, are refusing to handle alcohol to be scanned. Instead they ring a bell (or some such) and another till worker swaps in their place, scans in the item, and then the original Muslim till worker starts up again.
It's only some M&S currently and they're monitoring the policy. Incidentally, the move was condemned by leading members of the Muslim community who are obviously trying to integrate their communities and not create further divides, pointing out the Koran disallows the imbibing of alcohol, but not the handling of it for others.

ixoy

Here we go - two articles from The Sunday Times:
Article 1:

Muslim checkout staff get an alcohol opt-out clause
Daniel Foggo and Christopher Thompson

MUSLIM supermarket checkout staff who refuse to sell alcohol are being allowed to opt out of handling customers’ bottles and cans of drink.

Islamic workers at Sainsbury’s who object to alcohol on religious grounds are told to raise their hands when encountering any drink at their till so that a colleague can temporarily take their place or scan items for them.

Other staff have refused to work stacking shelves with wine, beer and spirits and have been found alternative roles in the company.

Sainsbury’s said this weekend it was keen to accommodate the religious beliefs of all staff but some Islamic scholars condemned the practice, saying Muslims who refused to sell alcohol were reneging on their agreements with the store.

Islam states that Muslims should not consume alcohol, but opinion is divided on whether it is permissible to be involved in the sale of it.

Mustapha, a Muslim checkout worker at the company’s store in Swiss Cottage, northwest London, interrupts his work to ensure that he does not have to sell or handle alcohol.

Each time a bottle or can of alcohol comes along the conveyor belt in front of him, Mustapha either swaps places discreetly with a neighbouring attendant or raises his hand so that another member of staff can come over and pass the offending items in front of the scanner before he resumes work.

Some of the staff delegated to handle the drink for Mustapha are themselves obviously Muslim, including women in hijab head coverings. However, a staff member at the store told a reporter that two other employees had asked to be given alternative duties after objecting to stacking drinks shelves.

Mustapha told one customer: “I can’t sell the alcohol because of my religion. It is Ramadan at the moment.”

His customers did not appear to have any objection to his polite refusal to work with alcohol. One said: “I have no issues with it at all, it really doesn’t bother me.”

However, some senior Muslims were less approving.

Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, director of the Muslim Institute and leader of the Muslim parliament, said: “This is some kind of overenthusiasm. One expects professional behaviour from people working in a professional capacity and this shows a lack of maturity.

“Sainsbury’s is being very good, they are trying to accommodate the wishes of their employees and we commend that. The fault lies with the employee who is exploiting and misusing their goodwill. It makes no difference if it is only happening over Ramadan.”

Ibrahim Mogra, chairman of the inter-faith committee of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), said: “Muslim employees should look at the allowances within Muslim law to enable them to be better operating employees and not be seen as rather difficult to cater for.”

A spokeswoman for Sainsbury’s, confirming Mustapha’s stance, said: “At the application stage we ask the relevant questions regarding any issues about handling different products and where we can we will try and accommodate any requirements people have, but it depends on the needs of the particular store.”

Article 2:

Muslim medical students get picky
Daniel Foggo and Abul Taher

Some Muslim medical students are refusing to attend lectures or answer exam questions on alcohol-related or sexually transmitted diseases because they claim it offends their religious beliefs.

Some trainee doctors say learning to treat the diseases conflicts with their faith, which states that Muslims should not drink alcohol and rejects sexual promiscuity.

A small number of Muslim medical students have even refused to treat patients of the opposite sex. One male student was prepared to fail his final exams rather than carry out a basic examination of a female patient.

The religious objections by students have been confirmed by the British Medical Association (BMA) and General Medical Council (GMC), which both stressed that they did not approve of such actions.
Related Links

* Fear of offending is killing our culture

It will intensify the debate sparked last week by the disclosure that Sainsbury’s is permitting Muslim checkout operators to refuse to handle customers’ alcohol purchases on religious grounds. It means other members of staff have to be called over to scan in wine and beer for them at the till.

Critics, including many Islamic scholars, see the concessions as a step too far, and say Muslims are reneging on their professional responsibilities.

This weekend, however, it emerged that Sainsbury’s is also allowing its Muslim pharmacists to refuse to sell the morning-after pill to customers. At a Sainsbury’s store in Nottingham, a pharmacist named Ahmed declined to provide the pill to a female reporter posing as a customer. A colleague explained to her that Ahmed did not sell the pill for “ethical reasons”. Boots also permits pharmacists to refuse to sell the pill on ethical grounds.

The BMA said it had received reports of Muslim students who did not want to learn anything about alcohol or the effects of overconsumption. “They are so opposed to the consumption of it they don’t want to learn anything about it,” said a spokesman.

The GMC said it had received requests for guidance over whether students could “omit parts of the medical curriculum and yet still be allowed to graduate”. Professor Peter Rubin, chairman of the GMC’s education committee, said: “Examples have included a refusal to see patients who are affected by diseases caused by alcohol or sexual activity, or a refusal to examine patients of a particular gender.”

He added that “prejudicing treatment on the grounds of patients’ gender or their responsibility for their condition would run counter to the most basic principles of ethical medical practice”.

Shazia Ovaisi, a GP in north London, said one of her male Muslim contemporaries at medical school failed to complete his training because he refused to examine a woman patient as part of his final exams.

“He was academically gifted, one of the best students, but gradually he got in with certain Islamic groups and started to become more radical,” said Ovaisi.

“You could see there was a change in his personality as time went by. During the final exams he was supposed to treat a female patient in hospital. He refused to do it, even though it would have been a very basic examination, nothing intrusive.

“But he refused and as a result he failed his exams. I was quite shocked and disappointed about it because I don’t see there being anything in our religion that prohibits us from examining male and female patients.”

Both the Muslim Council of Britain and Muslim Doctors and Dentist Association said they were aware of students opting out but did not support them.

Dr Abdul Majid Katme, of the Islamic Medical Association, said: “To learn about alcohol, to learn about sexually transmitted disease, to learn about abortion, it gives us more evidence to campaign against it. There is a difference between learning and practising.

“It is obligatory for Muslim doctors and students to learn about everything. The prophet said, ‘Learn about witchcraft, but don’t practise it’.”

Mint Sauce

but surly unless its causing offence we should not let our relgious beleives prevent soemone else doing something, if thats the case we should all tell our employees we cant work on sundays, we are a catholic country after all and aren't we taught that the sabath should be kept holy and a day of rest

MooseJam

Firetrap wrote: »

I would like it better if they refused to sell James Blunt CDs and cans of Dutch Mould

you're the second random punter castigating Mr Blunt today, is it a conspiracy

Naos

Those muslim workers in M&S should be fired for that.

humbert

I think it's very simple. If you are not willing to take courses deemed necessary to become a doctor for whatever reason then becoming a doctor is not for you. If you are not willing to sell alcohol then working in a place that sells alcohol is not for you.

Though the thought of religious beliefs influencing the decisions of medical professionals particularly concerns me. I think if there is any suggestion of conflict between a persons personal beliefs and the medical code of practice the person should be obliged to explicitly state which will take precedence. This applies to old fashioned catholic doctors too.

It seems like silly behaviour to me.

pickarooney

So should Jehovah's witnesses be allowed become doctors?

/loop

Reku

ixoy wrote: »

It's been in "The Sunday Times", a fairly reputable source - the OP has got it mostly right.

What's happening is that in some M&S stores in England, Muslim till workers who believe alcohol offends their religion, are refusing to handle alcohol to be scanned. Instead they ring a bell (or some such) and another till worker swaps in their place, scans in the item, and then the original Muslim till worker starts up again.
It's only some M&S currently and they're monitoring the policy. Incidentally, the move was condemned by leading members of the Muslim community who are obviously trying to integrate their communities and not create further divides, pointing out the Koran disallows the imbibing of alcohol, but not the handling of it for others.

More to the point it's against their religion to DRINK alcohol, not to handle it (I found out about this from an actual muslim a few years back, can't see a problem with it IMO, as religious requirements go no drinking alcohol is not that bad), these people are just trying to abuse the desire to be PC.


I think PC has had its day and needs to be put out to pasture, integrate or go home, stop trying to get special treatment and accept the same rules the rest of us have to put up with. Funny thing about the PC movement is that they are so insistance upon being touchy feely that they cheat us all (both those they seek to protect and the rest of us) of the constitutional right of equality.



Ah. dang ixoy beat me to the drink vs. handle point, well done.

Terry

ixoy wrote: »

It's been in "The Sunday Times", a fairly reputable source - the OP has got it mostly right.

What's happening is that in some M&S stores in England, Muslim till workers who believe alcohol offends their religion, are refusing to handle alcohol to be scanned. Instead they ring a bell (or some such) and another till worker swaps in their place, scans in the item, and then the original Muslim till worker starts up again.
It's only some M&S currently and they're monitoring the policy. Incidentally, the move was condemned by leading members of the Muslim community who are obviously trying to integrate their communities and not create further divides, pointing out the Koran disallows the imbibing of alcohol, but not the handling of it for others.

As a heathen, these practices offend me and I demand that my beliefs (or lack of) be adhered to.

irish-stew wrote: »

but surely unless its causing offence we should not let our relgious beleives prevent soemone else doing something, if thats the case we should all tell our employees we cant work on sundays, we are a catholic country after all and aren't we taught that the sabath should be kept holy and a day of rest

We are not a Catholic country.
Church and state are seperate entities.
The Catholic church does not dictate behaviour amongst the majority of people, nor does it make the laws of this country. (not any more anyway).

farohar wrote: »

More to the point it's against their religion to DRINK alcohol, not to handle it (I found out about this from an actual muslim a few years back, can't see a problem with it IMO, as religious requirements go no drinking alcohol is not that bad), these people are just trying to abuse the desire to be PC.


I think PC has had its day and needs to be put out to pasture, integrate or go home, stop trying to get special treatment and accept the same rules the rest of us have to put up with. Funny thing about the PC movement is that they are so insistance upon being touchy feely that they cheat us all (both those they seek to protect and the rest of us) of the constitutional right of equality.



Ah. dang ixoy beat me to the drink vs. handle point, well done.

Exactly.
They aren't even handling it.
They are handling containers of alcohol.

It is my firm belief that leeway of this kind is the main reason behind the growing number of socialist parties across Europe.

boneless

I personally know a Roman Catholic pharmacist who refuses to dispense the morning after pill on religious and ethical grounds. He also refuses to dispense the contraceptive pill. It's not just Muslim's who are committed to religion.

Capt'n Midnight

Muslim student doctors refusing to do exams ???

Should remind them of the hypocratic oath that doctors take. Isn't there stuff in that about treating people regardless. If they are going to be in A&E they will have to treat lots of stuff, sexual, alcohol, self inflicted, criminals etc.

TBH it sounds like a student prank, other wise they should be told point blank that the NHS will never employ them, nor will they allowed to treat medical card holders, since they aren't real doctors.

While Irish nurses in the UK don't have to do abortions, don't all other nurses have to including hindu's and buddists ?

moco

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Muslim student doctors refusing to do exams ???

Should remind them of the hypocratic oath that doctors take. Isn't there stuff in that about treating people regardless. If they are going to be in A&E they will have to treat lots of stuff, sexual, alcohol, self inflicted, criminals etc.

TBH it sounds like a student prank, other wise they should be told point blank that the NHS will never employ them, nor will they allowed to treat medical card holders, since they aren't real doctors.

While Irish nurses in the UK don't have to do abortions, don't all other nurses have to including hindu's and buddists ?

I've never heard that but surely general nurses wouldn't be doing abortions unless they're working in an abortion clinic? (where obviously it'd be expected)

Damned thread title!

I thought it was going to be about some Friday night shennanigans!

Are there any Jewish butchers?

Red Hand

Kosher butchers.

cornbb

mc nuggets wrote: »

I thought that judging by the thread title the content would be a lot more fun

Agreed. Promising thread titles like this should be reserved for five-star hilarious AH threads rather than pseudo-racist ten-a-penny threads like this that have been done a million times and bring the tone of the place down far too much.

Capt'n Midnight

Lets hijack the thread then.

Beer,meat and the pill

If that's what your girlfriend wants for her birthday then I reckon she's a keeper.

Zaph

When I saw the thread title I thought one of the BGRH Brothers had gotten a little bit lost and somehow ended up on AH.

EamonnKeane

Twats think they can do as they like.

Victor

I won't buy cigarettes for friends. I would refuse to sell tobacco to anyone. This probably stops me from working in most shops.

What Sainsburys / M&S should do is add one of those "No alcohol at this till" that they have for younger staff.

moco wrote: »

I've never heard that but surely general nurses wouldn't be doing abortions unless they're working in an abortion clinic? (where obviously it'd be expected)

Many Catholic (and apparently Muslim) medical practitioners will not involve themselves in abortion. It can be strongly argued that abortion is against the hippocratic oath.