Irish Times article on "Climatecare" in motoring section incorrect

probe

Today's Irish Times has an advertorial from some CO2 scheme peddling company in GB incorrectly suggesting that diesel cars emit more CO2 than gasoline - the reverse is true.

Eg:
BWM 320i gasoline 151 g/km 320d 128 g/km
BMW 325i gasoline 170 g/km 325d 155 g/km
BWM 530i gasoline 182 g/km 530d 170 g/km

Merc 200 Kompressor 189 g/km C220 diesel 160g/km (even though the diesel version has a bigger engine)

Ireland has one of the lowest penetrations of diesel cars in Europe - around 23% of the market - partly one suspects of mis-information in the Irish media. Around 70% of cars in France use diesel. Many other European countries have similarly higher levels of diesel car penetration.

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Tipsy Mac

probe wrote: »

Today's Irish Times has an advertorial from some CO2 scheme peddling company in GB incorrectly suggesting that diesel cars emit more CO2 than gasoline - the reverse is true.

Eg:
BWM 320i gasoline 151 g/km 320d 128 g/km
BMW 325i gasoline 170 g/km 325d 155 g/km
BWM 530i gasoline 182 g/km 530d 170 g/km

Merc 200 Kompressor 189 g/km C220 diesel 160g/km (even though the diesel version has a bigger engine)

Ireland has one of the lowest penetrations of diesel cars in Europe - around 23% of the market - partly one suspects of mis-information in the Irish media. Around 70% of cars in France use diesel. Many other European countries have similarly higher levels of diesel car penetration.

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VRT is the reason why diesel car sales are low in Ireland, they are priced out of the pocket of the average person buying a car. A diesel version will usually cost 3-5k more in Ireland than the same petrol base model due to this illegal taxation that goes against all we signed upto when we joined the EU. In Germany an entry level VW Golf 1.9TDI costs €19,150, in Ireland the same car costs €25,060, nearly a 6k difference.

Sources volkswagen.ie and volkswagen.de

Lennoxschips

Depends on the make and model really, but to suggest that either diesel or petrol emits more CO2 in general is misleading.

Around 70% of cars in France use diesel. Many other European countries have similarly higher levels of diesel car penetration.

I wouldn't say similar, France has the highest Diesel penetration in Europe, because Renault/Citroen/Peugeot have a big background in Diesel and naturally the French government wants to stimulate their native automakers.

The reason diesel engines are taxed higher than petrol (this is not only in Ireland) is not due to CO2 emissions but particle emissions. Diesel generally emits more soot and other particles, which you don't want in a city. It's cleanliness has improved a lot in the past decade especially, but petrol is still less carcinogenic when burned. Diesel is of course more fuel efficient.

10-10-20

Another reason why diesel is high in France is - well, have you every tried driving any distance on a French motorway in a petrol car? The average speeds are quite high.
I had my 1.8 l over in Le Mans in 2005 and it cost me €250 in fuel when a similar diesel was €75. Admittedly, she barely went below 6000 RPM...

Of course I offset my footprint on my return, re-grassed the lawn.

probe

Lennoxschips wrote: »

The reason diesel engines are taxed higher than petrol (this is not only in Ireland) is not due to CO2 emissions but particle emissions. Diesel generally emits more soot and other particles, which you don't want in a city. It's cleanliness has improved a lot in the past decade especially, but petrol is still less carcinogenic when burned. Diesel is of course more fuel efficient.

Out of date thinking (aside from the issue of having cities where one feels the need to drive because public transport is so bad). Most diesel cars have DPM filters available as standard or as an option, and some European governments (eg Germany) are giving cashback subsidies to entice diesel car buyers to go for this option. A diesel car with a PM10 filter is probably less carcinogenic than a gasoline vehicle because it goes through far less fuel per km travelled.

In any event the PM10 issue has nothing to do with the incorrect info on CO2 reported in the Irish Times, which is what this thread is about.

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Lennoxschips

As somebody who lives within 500 metres of one of the busiest and most clogged motorways in the Netherlands, the whole particle emissions thing is important for me.

A modern diesel engine emits 10 times as much aerosol particles as a petrol engine according to the Dutch ministry of transport. A new diesel car designed with a filter can get about 90% of the particles. An existing diesel with a retrofit filter added on will experience about 50% reduction, so still 5 times as much as a petrol car.

The problem is that filters aren't yet required by law in new diesel cars.

If you get one fit on an existing car in the Netherlands you'll get 80% cashback from the government, but why would the average Joe Bloggs bother? You're still paying the 20% for a something which isn't required anyway.

But that's the PM10 filter. Then there's nitrus oxide emissions, which diesel emits some 20 times more of than petrol. There's no filter for that.

probe

Most of the deadly pollution alongside motorways from diesel vehicles comes from trucks and buses whose engines are under stress (ie either carrying heavy cargo and/or accelerating). I agree that DPFs and DE-NOx filters should be required by law in all diesel vehicles. The Mercedes Benz De-NOx filter can achieve an 80% reduction in nitrous oxide emissions. It is grossly negligent of governments and the EU to allow diesel vehicles to be sold without them – in the same way as it is grossly negligent for governments to allow smoking in the workplace. Yet another example of the dysfunctionality of the EU bureaucracy.

Unlike other car options which provide benefits for the car’s users, the DPF and De-NOx filter provides benefit for everyone else. The Netherlands and England are two of the most over-populated places on the planet and have almost bumper to bumper freight traffic on motorways. In other countries, it is mainly an urban/suburban issue. At least NL is doing something about getting freight traffic off the road and on to the railways (the Betuweroute project will get 75% of Dutch road freight on to the rail system – putting the country on a similar level to Switzerland in terms of rail freight penetration).

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http://en.betuweroute.nl/home?setlanguage=en

Lennoxschips

I live along the A9 motorway just south of Amsterdam, the Betuweroute won't do much for me, but it's a good idea in principle.

It is grossly negligent of governments and the EU to allow diesel vehicles to be sold without them – in the same way as it is grossly negligent for governments to allow smoking in the workplace. Yet another example of the dysfunctionality of the EU bureaucracy.

The Dutch government wanted to make stringent filter requirements for new diesels sold in Holland, but the EU wouldn't let them, as they had to stick to the EU timetable for filters, which is 2009 or something.