PA System

darrenw5094

I am starting a covers band....everyone has their own gear, but no PA.
We are just playing pubs so a 2k rig would be enough i think.

What exactly do we need and what would each piece of kit cost second hand?

All input and details would be welcome.

Hanx.

Savman

Here we go again

Do you have a budget? Band line-up? Mic'ing up drums? Have you also factored monitors into your equation?

Some forethought now can make your life easier in the medium term, but it's most definitely not cheap to do it properly.

All depends on what you want I suppose.

unclebill98

Ok,

Budget?
How many in the band?
Transport? This stuff aint light nor small!
Any preferance on make?
Do you just want tops or tops and bins?
Monitors?
Mics?

What you got????

Theres a 1000's things to choose from so alot more info would get you better help/advice. Have you looked at anything that people can comment on??

Unclebill98

darrenw5094

About €3000 to spend....medium or average setup for that money....could maybe strach another grand.

4 piece band....mic'ing up drums.

Not expecting a savage setup for that, have no room for too much gear anyway.

2 bins, 2 tops, stands, mic's, desk, amp, leads, maybe 3 monitors.

darrenw5094

Transport not included here...that is another issue.

€3000 budget.
4 in the band.
Decent make if possible...not cheap brands.
Need tops and bins.
2 vocal mic's, drum mic's and 2 amp mic's.
3 monitors.

We got nothing for pa...but all us members have all our own guitars, amps, drums etc.

I liked to look of a Dynacord Powermate 1600 for a desk/amp. Not cheap though.

Hope that is all the info......just enough for the local pubs.

Savman

Off the top of my head, check out these speakers speakers:
dB Technologies Arena series
HK Premium Pro range
JBL MRX

Amps:
Yamaha P7000S
QSC PLX
Crown XTi
all lightweight and powerful, Yamaha being the cheapest

Mixer:
Allen & Heath MixWizard 16:2
Mackie Onyx
Yamaha MG (cheapest option again)

If you want to look at active (self powered) options, Mackie SRM450 + dB Tech Sub15's would be worth looking at.

If you want loadsa stuff for your cash and are less worried about getting good gear you could consider B*hringer, Fame and thebox stuff off Music Store and Thomann. Like with all budget/entry level stuff, it's hit and miss and will sound ok until you want better.

Savman

darrenw5094 wrote: »

I liked to look of a Dynacord Powermate 1600 for a desk/amp. Not cheap though.

Don't bother. Great units but you'll find yourself selling it in favour of a traditional mixer.
Remember that most Subs will not fit in the back seat of a standard car (take my word for it) so maybe leave aside the Subs for the time being, get 4 or 5 of the same tops, use 2 on stands and another 2 or 3 as wedges. You can always add subs later if and when the time comes.

Future compatibility is often overlooked in PA purchasing and its so easy to get the right stuff at the start and save yourself the time and money later. I learned this the hard way.:rolleyes:

darrenw5094

Hanx for all the stuff......this might sound like a silly question!!!:o

How many watts should the tops be....roughly.....and later on the bins?

:):):):)

Savman

Watts can be deceiving when comparing spec of different speakers, but generally I think Front Of House tops should be 400-600w RMS. Subs are a different beast altogether but anything above 500w should do a decent job, depending on the manufacturer obviously.

The Mackie SRM450 is the standard self powered speaker on the market and is pretty much 'plug and play' operation. Some of the Passive systems will require a bit more tweaking thru external crossovers and EQ etc. Generally Active systems are self contained and have built in protection and crossovers too.

First you should decide whether you need Active or Passive.
Then you can size up your available options and see what the closest match is for your budget. Remember that Mics, leads, cases, mic stands and all the additional gear will eat up a large chunk of your budget.

You can get a Fame drum mic set for €200, or you can get a pro standard Kick Mic for €200. You have to decide which is for you because you will have to compensate somewhere. But IMHO there's no point getting decent subs unless your Kick Mic, Cabling and Desk are all up to scratch. If you skimp on anything, you'll find yourself back here in 6 months looking for a quick fix.

I'd almost go so far as to say unless you're mic'ing the Kit properly, don't bother doing it at all.

unclebill98

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Hanx for all the stuff......this might sound like a silly question!!!:o

How many watts should the tops be....roughly.....and later on the bins?

:):):):)

I 2nd everything Savman says....he got there 1st...

Wattage for tops depends on if you go active or passive. 500w per tops giving out 1k in total & matched to the correct amp should cover most small pubs. But having the head room of more power is just as important in your choice.

As for drum mics, getting the kick and snare covered is the norm for most pub bands. Senn602 or Akg d112 are again the bog standard. Sometime its best not to mic them up at all cause you'll be too loud. DI the bass and Sm57 the gutiar cab. 2/3 SM58 for vocals and that the mics done:D

"Future compatibility is often overlooked in PA purchasing and its so easy to get the right stuff at the start and save yourself the time and money later. I learned this the hard way."

Very very true!

unclebill98

Dont forget covers/cases, mic leads, speakon leads, mic stands, trollys/wheels and spares for everything. Dont want to be left standing with no spare leads and your clients staring at ya wondering when your starting. Acc's can ofter be a few 100euros and more!

darrenw5094

A sticky was posted for Thomann's repeated questions.

How about a sticky for a PA for a 4 and 5 piece band doing the pub circuit??;)

unclebill98

darrenw5094 wrote: »

A sticky was posted for Thomann's repeated questions.

How about a sticky for a PA for a 4 and 5 piece band doing the pub circuit??;)

Not a bad idea, how is the research coming along?

darrenw5094

Coming all very well....you would not believe how much i have learned from this......a few days ago i knew practically zero.

Now i have a fair idea what i need, how much i need and the overall cost.

Hanx for all the info.
:):):):)

unclebill98

Cool,

Well post up your option a's and b's. Then others can give you even more advice.

Eoin Madsen

darrenw5094 wrote: »

How about a sticky for a PA for a 4 and 5 piece band doing the pub circuit??;)

There are constant disagreements on this topic, so a sticky might end up giving a biased viewpoint.

Only major alteration to Savman's suggestion I'd make is to get active monitors that are purpose-built monitors, rather than using wedge shaped tops. The monitors only need to be about half the wattage of the FOH speakers.

darrenw5094

I am just thinking that if we get active Mackie 450 tops, active monitors and then bins with 1K or so for them...that might be enough.

:)

unclebill98

Cool, I am mulling over the same tops for myself. I've been told by Savman before the the DB subs are a great pairing to them tops.

Savman

What the Pros say about the Mackie SRM450:
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?SQ=f843c813af94204ec772420c1daa058e&t=search&srch=srm450&btn_submit=Forum+Search&field=all&forum_limiter=&search_logic=AND&sort_order=DESC&author=

In summary: great all rounder, do not slam it with bass frequencies and just be careful using it in monitor mode. They have a notorious issue with thermal shut down on wedge duty. Basically the way the heat sink is designed, when the speaker is on the floor the heat generated by the box cannot escape, causing it to overheat and the internal protection shuts the box down to prevent damage. That seems to be the only compromise with them and otherwise they get great reviews.

You'll often hear DJ's using them and cranking them to horrible nasty levels.