Coaching

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

RedJoker

What games do you play, FR or 6max?

What stakes do you play?

What do/have you read and what have you been doing to improve your play before this?

To answer your questions here's:

The new coaching/training 2+2 forum

MSNL's possibly outdated coaching directory

Unl/SSNL's official coaching thread

I believe cardrunners also do coaching, as do stoxpoker. I've heard some really good things about www.3-bet.net

mdwexford

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=stoxpoker

Or else pm HJ or someone

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

ianmc38

I'm not sure about 2+2 but most of their coaches are quite expensive, from what i remember. They may have some cheaper SSNL coaches. I'd recommend just going to someone on boards.

Theresalwaysone

Honestly I dont think coaching is what you need. Monkeys can beat the low stakes. Monkeys don't need a coachin.

Do you:
Open limp?
Play QJo UTG?
Fall in love with pretty hands i.e A2suited? or 34s?
"well its my big blind"....
Regularly complete your small blind with rubbish?
Call too much?

First of all: Like most Live players who decide to play online.... ya gotta lose yer gamble. This was hard for me.

Do get Pokertracker
Do get PA or Gametime
Do have someone you can msn for help on hands

I used/still am/kinda/but its improving/ to be a loser online, I do think I am running hot lately but I also think my game has come on a lot.

My tips would be:

FOLD small/middling suited ACES preflop to a raise unless very deep or in multi way pots (in postion, always leave yourself with the option to take the free card, calling out of position ruins this). I learned this today off a respected poster and I know it will save me tons.

Don't chase flush draws unless pot odds or implied dictate (means not chasing a flush on a 3 flush board against a nit who wont pay you off)

Don't chase Straight draws unless pot or implies odds dictate.

Don't call flops w/overcards.

Don't c-bet all the time, no what flops are c-bettable and which arent.
i.e you raise AK to two MP limpers both call and the flop comes 98J two diamonds, and they both check into you. I know this is read dependent but you get the idea.

At the low stakes, bluffing is very rarely necessary or clever. Just nit it up and build your roll.

POSITION POSITION POSITION makes the game infinitely easier and Im sure we've all heard it so much.

Another thing that is said so much but is very important. SMALL POCKET PAIRS= Goldmine. Sets are a huge huge influence on your win rate. People regularly stack off with top pair with or without a little persuasion.

Hyperover bets are rarely bluffs in fact they are generally the nuts. BE AWARE

UTG and UTG+1 : should be played very tight, your raising range (as open limping is horrific) should be v.tight. not K10suited and QJo, these are not monsters.

I find the biggest winners at the low stakes are the nittier players, me and Tommy Gunne were having this convo and think that the winners at our level .25/.50 are all circa 20/16 or so. Nitty people.

Play at stakes you will take seriously. If your playin 1/2 live and are used to playin to 7euro raises, dont start playing .10/.20 because psychologically you wont be focused or taking it seriously. .25/.50 is the minimum and sometimes you may find that trivial (be it rightly or wrongly). Remember though, this level will be more profitable than live 1/2 for most players. I can nearly guarantee that.

This is my view on it. Been playing a lot recently and running good. I dont think coaching is neccessary yet and that anyone should be able to beat the small stakes and proceed from there.

BUT if worst comes to worst, DVD fan seems to have the lower levels locked down and has a growing reputation as his logic, reasoning and clarity in his arguments are brilliant. He could be a good coach for small stakes.

then OBV there are the bigger staked players.

RoadSweeper

I wouldnt rush into coaching as a 50nl player. I'm not saying it shouldnt be done, but its possible to figure out your self where your going wrong.


Do you have poker tracker?

Do you know what stats you play?

If you have PT i suggest you look at pokey's thread

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=4946669


It is often you will find something of a big leak in your game.

I remember i got Red Joker to review my stats at 50nl and i was way too loose from early position and my suited connectors play sucked. He pointed out my cbetting was too low etc... Now I was still winning at this stage, but still needed to be fixed if i was to improve.

So i'm saying use coaching as a last resort if your playing lower stakes. ( Maybe i'm only saying this as a scabby student and if you have the money go for it)

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

RedJoker

PAHud won't work on Irish Eyes, you can use gametime+ but it's messy if you multitable.

Coaching is the most time efficient way to improve your game, but it's the least cost efficient. Your coach can look at your play and tell you where your leaks are and how to fix them, it's difficult to find your leaks reading strategy posts. I would advise against getting a coach who plays small stakes, they probably have leaks in their own game and you may pick up those instead of or as well as your own.

There are a lot of far more cost effective ways to improve your game before getting coaching, 2+2 has a wealth of information, you should regularly post hands here or/and on 2+2 and respond to other people's hand histories too.

Getting a CR subscription is another step you could take before getting coaching. They have a number of low stakes pros who do videos of micro stakes and small stakes who are very good and more focused on common situations that come up at those levels.

If you find it hard to motivate yourself to put in the work to improve on your own then a coach can motivate you and by paying so much you're likely to take it more seriously.

Also,

The Scientist wrote:

I'm a losing online player.

I don't know what a tracker mortgage is.

DeadMoney

If you are gonna get coaching you should join up with a training site. Individual coaching is usually about $100 ph and upwards from any serious coaches. Also, these are usually recommended more for serious players who are looking to move up to higher levels. I recommend pokerfox.net or stoxpoker.com. Membership at pokerfox is only $99 per yer and there are loads and loads of videos and great articles which cover all levels and topics.
There is a alot of content on bankroll building and management which i find is invaluable. Check it out, it's alot cheaper than private coaching.

RedJoker

The Scientist wrote:

Play QJo UTG? Occassionaly but only with a min raise.

Don't play QJo UTG and never ever min raise.

The Scientist wrote:

Regularly complete your small blind with rubbish? Absolutely.

Stop doing that. You should play tight from your SB, you'll be OOP for the rest of the hand and because of this will lose more when you're behind and win less when you're ahead. If there are limpers then it's fine to complete SCs, broadway, low PPs, suited aces or kings, etc. but not much else.

If there's a raise before you then you should have an extremely tight calling range.

The Scientist wrote:

Call too much? Yes.

Try only raising or folding for a while, obv there are times when calling is a better option but you need to be playing aggressively.

The Scientist wrote:

Don't call flops w/overcards. I'm having trouble with this but duly noted all the same.

If you are calling just to try and hit then this is really bad.

The Scientist wrote:

No idea, i dont datamine or analyse hands after sessions.

Buy pokertracker.

RoadSweeper

RedJoker wrote: »

I don't know what a tracker mortgage is.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=lB9&defl=en&q=define:Tracker+mortgage&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

dvdfan

Giving the reply to the questions it seems youve alot of bad habits and are missing the fundementals. I was a losing/breaking even player for a long time until recently, just see my blog and i have to say if you get a subscription for cardrunners and watch the 5 small stakes no limit videos then youll find it very hard not be a winning player, when you see how they just play a tight solid game with no fancy stuff it makes it hard to believe how easy it is. They give you a chart of what to play from different positions and explain the importance of position which is extremely important.

After that you can start working on more advanced parts, a coach is another option and you can get them on 3bet for around $60 an hour+ but id suggest cardrunners to get the basics right and then a coach.

Good luck anyway

cooker3

Don't bother with coaching
Just read every single sticky on 2+2 and on boards.
Also read every post on the anthology here
http://www.pr0crast.com/2+2.NL.Anthology.v1.htm

These resources are free and there for you 24/7, follow them and you WILL beat 25 and 50nl
Post hands you have trouble with no matter how small you think it maybe. There are excellent posters on this site who give their time and answer questions like this all the time, don't be afraid to post or ask for help (just look at some of the replies here as proof)

Good luck

ocallagh

There is a lot to be said for coaching. A decent coach will identify the serious issues a lot quicker than the player can themselves. There is so much content on 2+2, and if you don't know what needs fixing in the first place you'll just get lost. You'll end up piling new tactics and theory on top of a foundation full of holes. IMO, coaching is nearly essential for someone at this stage.

Coaching is also good for lazy people. A lot of people will read about the basics on 2+2, but won't fully understand them. They'll be lazy, read a few threads and within a month they'll be back limping UTG with QJ because they never found out why it was a mistake in the first place. A decent coach will not move on until they are certain the player is ready. This disciplined approach is very important IMO.

ianmc38

yeha agree with Niall.

Rb

ocallagh wrote: »

There is a lot to be said for coaching. A decent coach will identify the serious issues a lot quicker than the player can themselves. There is so much content on 2+2, and if you don't know what needs fixing in the first place you'll just get lost. You'll end up piling new tactics and theory on top of a foundation full of holes. IMO, coaching is nearly essential for someone at this stage.

Coaching is also good for lazy people. A lot of people will read about the basics on 2+2, but won't fully understand them. They'll be lazy, read a few threads and within a month they'll be back limping UTG with QJ because they never found out why it was a mistake in the first place. A decent coach will not move on until they are certain the player is ready. This disciplined approach is very important IMO.

Good post and I agree.

Lafortezza

Coaching is expensive isn't it? Especially for a $50NL or $100NL player?
Might be a better idea to read alot of the suggested stuff above, buy a couple of poker books, and then get a friend to review some of the hands you've played that were giving you trouble. Send emails to each other looking for constr criticism. It's good to hear other ppls explanations for doing particular things in particular situations.

mormank

why do ppl keep talkin so negatively about QJo??

RoundTower

I get a fair few requests for coaching through 2+2. A lot of the time, after hearing about the person's personal circumstances, I tell them they probably don't need coaching and would be better to get cardrunners or read the forums or both.

I think the best time to get a coach is when you have already shown some success, and made some progress, and can beat a certain level of game consistently, but have trouble moving up or want to learn a new game. For example you can beat $200NL over a big sample but every time you move up to $400NL you lose. Or (my speciality) you can beat midstakes NL games but want to learn to play PLO well.

If you're not a winner in anything it is hard for any coach to turn you into a winner.

Theresalwaysone's list of leaks is good. Almost certainly, you have some but not all of these leaks. You should have the mental discipline to go through the list and figure out which ones apply to you, then work on eliminating them from your game. Similarly if you end up getting a coach he will probably be able to watch you play and tell you what you are doing wrong, but you still have to do the hard work of eliminating these mistakes from your game.

dvdfan

Also see this thread some useful info here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53632398#post53632398

And download and print off the 6max hand chart in my post on the above link and follow it religiously. It will turn you into a 18/14 or so player and will basically make sure your not playing marginal hands OOP. If you add some of the basics of post flop play to that you should be on the right track and when you get the hang of that try to add more to your game. I wouldnt even bother trying to add anything fancy to your game for a while yet until you get them basics right as trying to double barrell/bluff/3bet light/steal light from the Button & CO will get a player that hasnt grapsed the basics into a serious amount of trouble so with the 6max hand chart youll build a good solid foundation for beating 50nl and can add some of the stuff youve read in the thread after a couple oof thousand hands when youre more comfortable.

I tried to add things like stealing light/double barrelling etc to my game when i had a solid enough grasp of the basics and it was devastating to my game because i wasnt good enough post flop to be playing marginal hands especially when i was trying to double barrell them sometimes too, i also recently tried to 3bet light when i dont fully understand the concepts which also dented my profits that week, ive since swallowed my pride and cut back on 3betting light until i have a better grasp of things and im happy with my play again, the reason im telling you this is because although people will give you advice which may be correct if you havent got the basics youll lose money and by the looks of it your at a stage where a bad run will see you retire from poker.

Its also essential you get poker tracker if you want people to be able to analyze your game and for you to analyze your sessions, absolutely essential. Some general post flop play tips:

Always try to ask yourself when faced with a reasonable sized bet "What hand do i beat that my opponent would make this bet with" and if its not alot then fold. The perfect example is when you have KQ on Q high and your opponent raised the flop and bet 3/4 PSB on turn, some poeple just focus on what they have but in truth hes never doing this with QJ or worse.

If you have nothing like AQ high and someone raises you although you might not believe them fold you have nothing yourself and wait until you do have something to play back at them with.

Dont bother slowplaying at this level, not even with Quads you will either get paid off or you wont.

Dont overvalue 1 pair hands, as a general rule your not looking to get all in with any 1 pair hand unless hes a complete donk, if you bet flop and turn and he calls both times try and check the river if possible. By this stahe hes either on a draw that hit (and you dont want to pay off a bet) or a draw that missed (he wont call a bet now anyway) or he has 2 pair or better (and you also dont want to pay off a bet)

Dont pay off raises with weak hands, if you have a weak holding you want to keep the pot small, if someone is trying to build a pot then your putting yourself in a bad situation with a marginal hand, fold and wait for better oppurtunity. More so when your OOP because youll have to act first, position is so important post flop.

Dont get too involved with MP and BP in small pots its not worth it, your only winning a small pot and losing a big one, try to ditch them unless you also have other outs aswell and especiall when your OOP

Here are some videos posted from 2+2, i dont know how good or bad they are so you may pick up bad habits but you might gain something from them.

http://roulettenburg.com/poker/videos.html

Lafortezza

RoundTower wrote: »

I get a fair few requests for coaching through 2+2.

Out of interest how much would you charge for PLO coaching? How many hours coaching do you think would be necessary to improve a winning PL$100 players game so that he could beat $2/$4? Imagine said player is only mildly retarded when it comes to basic poker concepts.

Samba

lafortezza wrote: »

Out of interest how much would you charge for PLO coaching? How many hours coaching do you think would be necessary to improve a winning PL$100 players game so that he could beat $2/$4? Imagine said player is only mildly retarded when it comes to basic poker concepts.

. ?

Van Dice

Scientist, if you take heed of Theresalwaysone's and dvdfan's posts here you'll improve a lot, v good advice. Read posts, and reply, it forces you to think about why something is good or bad. You might get some curt responses, esp on 2+2, but that costs you nothing!

Imo reading 2+2 would be way more beneficial than reading 10 books.

And this might sound kinda stupid, but just think about why you're doing something. Every time it's your turn to act, think about why you're about to bet/raise, whatever. Even if it's obvious, just understand the reasons why your action is better than all the alternatives. Once you are a thinking player results will follow.

Re coaching, I'd say it's well worth it for most players

Barlow07

The Scientist wrote: »

Also, would any of you recommend a Cardrunners subscription?

I signed up http://www.cardrunners.com/ and it made a difference in time, dont expect results asap. You might need a new tatic when you play online as your not face - face on a table. Id recommend this for any new begineers or even experience players as well.

Tar.Aldarion

I can coach you, it's really easy to improve somebodies game at this level. :P
Ah no, you just need to post up a few hands etc and people can comment. It's usually just bad luck or an easy to spot mistake.

RoundTower

lafortezza wrote: »

Out of interest how much would you charge for PLO coaching? How many hours coaching do you think would be necessary to improve a winning PL$100 players game so that he could beat $2/$4? Imagine said player is only mildly retarded when it comes to basic poker concepts.

I generally charge $150/hr. I think most people who beat PL$100 could beat PL$400 with 6-8 hours of my coaching plus 40 hours of hard work/practice.

I'm not interested in pimping my services here (or on 2+2 for that matter). I don't approve of advertising here in general and I won't post here again about it unless asked.

RoundTower

on a separate note I am considering coaching from this guy and it sounds really good
http://www.tommyangelo.com

RedJoker

RoundTower wrote: »

on a separate note I am considering coaching from this guy and it sounds really good
http://www.tommyangelo.com

I remember reading some of his posts on 2+2 from ages ago and reading the articles on his website. It looks very good.

robinlacey

dave if you do get that tommy angelo coaching i'd love to hear how it went