Mazda 2 prices - we're being ripped off

Mailman

According to this report entry level price in Japan is $9170 which is roughly €6452
http://uk.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUKT1938420070705

According to this page the entry level price here in Ireland is €15895 before delivery charges are applied and if you want metallic paint then add another €450 on top.
http://www.mazda2.com/SpecsAndPrices_en_IE.html?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID=%7bE1C7FC03-169F-4250-BC46-5800F709F9FD%7d&NRORIGINALURL=%2fShowroom%2fComingSoon%2fMazda2%2fMazda2ReDirect&NRCACHEHINT=Guest

adding vat @21% to japanese price of €6452 bring me up to €7806
adding vrt at 22.5%(less than 1.4 litre of retail price €15895) to €7806 brings me to €11382.
I haven't worked out duty and shipment costs but I figure they are balanced out by local japanese taxes included in that sticker price of €6452 which wouldn't be applicable if the car was exported as new.

That's over €4500 difference between price in Japan and price here. I doubt the difference is accounted for to any great extent by improved spec on the Irish version.

I figure the government gets their cut on this car and in exchange for the motor importers complicity in the VRT racket they get the guts of €4500 extra profit as you can't go to Japan to buy the car directly. The visible and invisible barriers to trade prevent this. Mazda Ireland (MDL????) have in-effect an absolute monopoly on sale of new Mazdas and in the case of a Mazda 2 that monopoly is worth over €4500 to them per unit.

VRT is an absolutely horrible tax. Distorts the market wildly against the interests of the consumer.

Anything wrong with my calculations with respect to maths?. I think they're fairly accurate.

cantdecide

Mailman wrote: »

VRT is an absolutely horrible tax. Distorts the market wildly against the interests of the consumer.

There are so many examples...

The example I always use of this point is that the only ones who can afford Golf GTIs are usually those that want them. (except grown up, card carrying boyracers who should know better, of course).

And the mathematical gymnastic with the "30%" fools nobody. Its surely more like 45% for over 2.0s.

MrPudding

Fcuk. Hold the front page. Ireland in "Cars are a rip off here" shocker!!!

MrP

colm_mcm

yawn

Biro

I wouldn't take it out on Mazda though.
What annoys me more is when prices don't tally up with UK prices.
Take a Golf GT petrol in the UK, about 1k sterling cheaper than the GT diesel (which is the 170bhp 2 litre). Both cheaper than the GTi.
Come over here and you'll see the GT around 31k (open to correction), the GTi is around €35,600 and for some unknown reason the Diesel GT is €37,500.
Where did VW pull that figure from? The Irish mentallity of always buy diesel cause it'll save ya money, even if it never does save ya money. VW Ireland decided to cash in on it. Nothing to do with Tax or VRT there.

Attention everyone : Boycott the 170bhp Golf Diesel. Instead get a cheaper A3 170bhp Diesel if you really want that engine (and Audi supposed to be the dearer brand), or the Octavia VRs diesel.

colm_mcm

Biro wrote: »

Attention everyone : Boycott the 170bhp Golf Diesel. Instead get a cheaper A3 170bhp Diesel if you really want that engine

That'll really show them. I've heard how tight the profit margins are in those A3's :rolleyes:

Mailman

colm_mcm wrote: »

yawn

Care to declare a vested interest?

whippet

cantdecide wrote: »

The example I always use of this point is that the only ones who can afford Golf GTIs are usually those that want them. (except grown up, card carrying boyracers who should know better, of course).

I fail to see your point?

yellow012

Mailman wrote: »

Mazda Ireland (MDL????) have in-effect an absolute monopoly on sale of new Mazdas and in the case of a Mazda 2 that monopoly is worth over €4500 to them per unit.

MDL no longer have the Mazda franchise, it is now run from the UK.

cantdecide

whippet wrote: »

I fail to see your point?

I thought it was obvious,

Because of VRT, only yuppies can afford new Golf GTi's:D. (or someone that the car is intended for who doesn't mind being borrowed up to the eyeballs for it)

I'm almost 26, I have cash in my skyrocket and if the Golf GTi wasn't so heavily taxed, I could buy a new one with a little help from my bank for about €25k. Instead they're about €36k, which is far far more than it's worth. It is intended to appeal to seomeone like me (and it does) but I can't possibly afford it or justify that kind of expense on a depreciating asset.

Another example I use is that in the UK, if you have the price of a new 520d, you buy a 520d. In Ireland because of VRT, if you have the price of a 520d, you buy a 320d. If you have the price of a 320d, you buy a mondeo.

How many people do you know who drive Mondeos, wouldn't you prefer if they could buy a BMW 3s for the same money??

PaulieC

cantdecide wrote: »

How many people do you know who drive Mondeos, wouldn't you prefer if they could buy a BMW 3s for the same money??

I would. Surely a mondeo is the more exotic of the two cars these days? Every David McWilliams stereotype drives a 3-series these days

whippet

cantdecide wrote: »

I'm almost 26, I have cash in my skyrocket and if the Golf GTi wasn't so heavily taxed, I could buy a new one with a little help from my bank for about €25k. Instead they're about €36k, which is far far more than it's worth. It is intended to appeal to seomeone like me (and it does) but I can't possibly afford it or justify that kind of expense on a depreciating asset.

I would like a Porsche 911 Turbo, but unfortunatly all I could afford was the GTi !! I am no yuppie, I am no boy racer but I appriciate a good car and for me the GTi was the car I wanted. I saved and bought when I could afford it. You can't afford it at the moment, but things can change.

As for saying that the GTi isn't worth €40k (by the time you spec it) ... that is a matter of opinion. There are only a hand full of cars out there can can give the same driving experience and ownership satisfaction levels as the GTi straight from the showroom.

You must take everything in to consideration ... could you afford it if you were living and earning in the UK ? In general wages are lower and finance rates are higher which means that your buying power is diminished.

It is all relative.

peasant

The thing that always gets me is how fast Irish cars lose their value.

To buy new, they are several thousands more expensive than in Germany. Yet look at 10 year old (or older) run of the mill cars and they are more expensive in Germany than here (where they are pretty much worthless)

So people here really have the money to "consume" their cars over 5- 10 years. As long as this is the case, the governement (and dealers to a certain degree) will happily cash in on this.

ambro25

peasant wrote:

To buy new, they are several thousands more expensive than in Germany. Yet look at 10 year old (or older) run of the mill cars and they are more expensive in Germany than here (where they are pretty much worthless).

In Germany, people look after their cars

And I've yet to experience a country with more of an irrepressible need for the yearly update/upgrade

BackOnTopic - I own a Mazda. They make good cars.

G Luxel

The new Landcruiser Amazon in Japan is only 23,000 sterling. In the Uk when it arrives it will be 54,000 sterling and I guess it will be over E 100,000 euros IF it arrives here ...:)

Ice_Box

VRT is supposed to be a luxury tax. Yet you must pay VRT on extras such as ESP and extra airbags and isofix. So keeping your children alive is a luxury.

E92

Ice_Box wrote: »

VRT is supposed to be a luxury tax. Yet you must pay VRT on extras such as ESP and extra airbags and isofix. So keeping your children alive is a luxury.

Its supposed to be an enviornmental tax actually, which is why the Lexus LS 600h gets a whopping €20,000 of a reduction because its a Hybrid, even though the Audi A8 2.8 which produces 20 g/km less of CO2 than the Lexus is entitled to SFA of a reduction.

I've nothing against any car in principle getting any VRT reduction, but it shouldn't be just on the basis of it being a Hybrid, when there are other cars equally green and (as my example above shows) sometimes greener non Hybrid cars which are surley every bit as deserving a concession for their relatively low emissions.

No need for(yet another)a big discussion on Hybrids now, before anyone gets the idea, Hybrids have been debated here on Motors to the ends of the earth many, many times.

Biro wrote:

I wouldn't take it out on Mazda though.
What annoys me more is when prices don't tally up with UK prices.
Take a Golf GT petrol in the UK, about 1k sterling cheaper than the GT diesel (which is the 170bhp 2 litre). Both cheaper than the GTi.
Come over here and you'll see the GT around 31k (open to correction), the GTi is around €35,600 and for some unknown reason the Diesel GT is €37,500.
Where did VW pull that figure from? The Irish mentallity of always buy diesel cause it'll save ya money, even if it never does save ya money. VW Ireland decided to cash in on it. Nothing to do with Tax or VRT there.

Where did you get the idea of this Irish mentality about diesels from.

There are practically no diesels sold in Ireland, compared to our European counterparts.

Edit: The Department of Transport's own statistics(see P26) say that 16.35% of all cars on the road fill up at the black pump.

In France 70% of new cars sold are diesel, in Italy, the figure is about the same. In Germany its roughly 50:50.

I think the Irish figure is something like 25%.
EDIT: I was right. The Department of Transport's own statistics show that diesels have 25% of the market.(well 25.399 to be precise, look at page 30)

As for the Golf, yeah the Golf GT Sport TDI is about £1k cheaper over in the UK(than a GTI 200 bhp).

The Irish price for the GT TDI 170 5 dr (no DSG) is €38,245. The 1.4 TSI 170 is €31,215.

Its really easy to explain why this is the case. The 1.4 is in the 22.5% VRT bracket, so 22.5% of the cars' price is VRT. So the car would cost €24,190 without VRT.(31215X77.5%)

The TDI's price on the other hand consists of 30% VRT. So the pre VRT price is €26,770. If VRT was 22.5% for both models, then the TDI would cost €34,540, which is still a lot more to pay for a diesel though.

As for why the diesel GT costs more than the Petrol GTI in Ireland but not in the UK, thats a question I can't answer:D.

Longrangedriver

Quote "How many people do you know who drive Mondeos, wouldn't you prefer if they could buy a BMW 3s for the same money" from message 10.


Er I bought a new Mondeo Zetec 1.8 TDCi for €32,500. I find it a better car than the 06' 318 in work.

Whats annoying me is the difference in prices around europe, I've checked prices in other countries, and it shows that the Irish government are seriously taking the p!ss.

Based on 5 door Mondeo Zetec 1.8 TDCi

England €25300
France €24500
Belgium €24700
Poland €19500:mad:
Germany €22000
Spain €25000

colm_mcm

Mailman wrote: »

Care to declare a vested interest?

It's no secret, I'm in the motor trade. We'd make more money if VRT and VAT were reduced and lots more people could afford new cars.

It's hardly news that we're all being ripped off. and the Mazda2 isn't the only car that's more expensive in Europe than in Japan.

Guy:Incognito

Longrangedriver wrote: »

Based on 5 door Mondeo Zetec 1.8 TDCi

England €25300
France €24500
Belgium €24700
Poland €19500:mad:
Germany €22000
Spain €25000

Do you think by any chance your getting paid more than your counterparts in those countries? I'd wager that 90% of the time you are. Also , how come you didnt include the likes of Denmark or other countries with higher rates of vrt like taxes?

cantdecide

Stekelly wrote: »

Do you think by any chance your getting paid more than your counterparts in those countries? I'd wager that 90% of the time you are. Also , how come you didnt include the likes of Denmark or other countries with higher rates of vrt like taxes?

We all have our crosses to bear and just cos someone else is worse off, doesn't mean that we have to feel it's a nice feeling to be a motorist in Ireland. I bet most of those countries have better public transport. As long as I've lived, public transport has never been viable for me on a daily basis....



Not a loaded question, a genuine enquiry- how do we fair on road tax? My car nets the govt over a grand a year even though I barely use it....

bushy...

Love the way vrt has become an "environmental " tax , I don't think anyone cared much when it was introduced

CarLover

ambro25 wrote: »

In Germany, people look after their cars

There seems to be a correlation between good roads and people who look after their cars. We have shocking roads and sure enough we treat our cars very badly.
The Brits aren't all that different to us but treats their cars with great respect...good roads there!
Our road infrastructure is nothing short of a sham.

E92

The Spanish and French have very good smooth roads, and their cars are full of dents and scratches, sometimes after only a few months.

CarLover

E92 wrote: »

The Spanish and French have very good smooth roads, and their cars are full of dents and scratches, sometimes after only a few months.

Yes...and the reason for this in the case of the French is because they're all completely f$cking insane drivers. Was in Paris recently and taxi driver texted for the whole journey...whilst weaving in and out of traffic with no indicators and braking hard. Different scene in France. Italy is the same...

Also...the French are driving Renaults and Peugots. Hard to have much respect for them in fairness

Longrangedriver

Stekelly wrote: »

Do you think by any chance your getting paid more than your counterparts in those countries? I'd wager that 90% of the time you are. Also , how come you didnt include the likes of Denmark or other countries with higher rates of vrt like taxes?

Okay €41000 approx in denmark:eek:, and only take home €50k per annum.

ambro25

E92 wrote: »

The Spanish and French have very good smooth roads, and their cars are full of dents and scratches, sometimes after only a few months.

Pot - Kettle - Black. I guess that, at least, you (Irish?) get to blame it on your own rough roads? :rolleyes:

CarLover wrote: »

Yes...and the reason for this in the case of the Irish is because they're all completely f$cking insane drivers. Was in Dublin recently and taxi driver was on mobile for the whole journey...whilst weaving in and out of traffic with no indicators and braking hard. Different scene in Ireland. Poland is the same...

Also...the Irish are driving Nissans and BMWs. Hard to have much respect for them in fairness

Fixed

cantdecide

ambro25 wrote: »

Pot - Kettle - Black. I guess that, at least, you (Irish?) get to blame it on your own rough roads? :rolleyes:



Fixed

Originally Posted by CarLover
Yes...and the reason for this in the case of the Irish is because they're all completely f$cking insane drivers. Was in Dublin recently and taxi driver was on mobile for the whole journey...whilst weaving in and out of traffic with no indicators and braking hard. Different scene in Ireland. Poland is the same...

Also...the Irish are driving Nissans and BMWs and Toyotas, don't forget about those precious toyotas- you don't have to mind them. Hard to have much respect for them in fairness

Fixed

Biro

colm_mcm wrote: »

That'll really show them. I've heard how tight the profit margins are in those A3's :rolleyes:

If you're worried about profit margins then don't buy anything. Walk. And make shoes yourself, cause shoe companys make profit too.

Andrewf20

I was talking to a guy in Texas a few months ago from Arizona who bought a new E92 328i for 32K dollars! Thats 23.7 K euro. How sick is that.

The cost of new cars in Ireland is a well known and unfunny joke, so I will never buy a new car here.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

Where did you get the idea of this Irish mentality about diesels from.

There are practically no diesels sold in Ireland, compared to our European counterparts.

As for the Golf, yeah the Golf GT Sport TDI is about £1k cheaper over in the UK(than a GTI 200 bhp).

The Irish price for the GT TDI 170 5 dr (no DSG) is €38,245. The 1.4 TSI 170 is €31,215.

Its really easy to explain why this is the case. The 1.4 is in the 22.5% VRT bracket, so 22.5% of the cars' price is VRT. So the car would cost €24,190 without VRT.(31215X77.5%)

The TDI's price on the other hand consists of 30% VRT. So the pre VRT price is €26,770. If VRT was 22.5% for both models, then the TDI would cost €34,540, which is still a lot more to pay for a diesel though.

As for why the diesel GT costs more than the Petrol GTI in Ireland but not in the UK, thats a question I can't answer:D.

You can't reverse a percentage by subtracting the original added percentage from the total, doesn't work that way, but I get your point about VRT, which is why I used the GTi as my prime example. There is no excuse for the 170 golf price, it's nothing short of a rip off.
And about the diesels, forget statistics, just look at Golfs, Jetta/Bora's and Passats. Count the diesel's versus the petrols.

Biro

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I was talking to a guy in Texas a few months ago from Arizona who bought an E92 328i for 30K dollars!

You sure it was a 328i? They were discontinued in the early E46 models, back in '00.

Andrewf20

Sure was. Defo he mentioned a 2.8 litre and new.

Biro

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Sure was. Defo he mentioned a 2.8 litre and new.

Oh. Must be only for the foreign markets.

Andrewf20

Sure was. I was googling the prices here on the net and its showing prices for the 335i of 37-40K dollars. I feel sick. Probably cheaper than a basic 116i here.

ninty9er

Biro wrote: »

You sure it was a 328i? They were discontinued in the early E46 models, back in '00.

Not in the States..it's the entry model there

E92

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I was talking to a guy in Texas a few months ago from Arizona who bought a new E92 328i for 32K dollars! Thats 23.7 K euro. How sick is that.

The cost of new cars in Ireland is a well known and unfunny joke, so I will never buy a new car here.

The US have had a 328i since last year -the reason why is that the new direct injection petrols we will soon be treated to are not capable of being used in the US because the fuel quality in the US is not good enough.

Direct Injection Petrols need Low Sulphur very high quality fuel- this is not available in the US AFAIK.

We're not missing out on anything though, its actually the 231 bhp engine they used in the E46 330i AFAIK.

Which is very odd as the US did have the magnesium block engine available(the 258 bhp unit) in the E60 and E90 initially(the US 525i, 325i, X3 2.5si and Z4 2.5si were the same as ours too), and is still available in the Z4, X3 and X5 there.

The 1 series for the US will get this engine too(128i), and the E60/E61 5 series have it too in the form of a 528i.

Of more interest to me is the fact that the International Engine of the Year 2007 is available in the US 5 series but not available here.

The 335i and 135i's 3.0 twin turbo straight 6 is available in the E60/E61 US spec 5 series in the form of the 535i, so why can't BMW put that engine into production for the Euro 5 series?

Some markets are also availale with a 323i, which really bugs me, ever since the E90 3 series was introduced, BMW haven't replaced the E46 320i.

The E90-E93 320i uses the same engine as the 318i from the E46. So if you own a 318i E46, then the replacement E90 series is the 320i and not the 318i.
The E90-E93 325i replaced the E46 325i.