Football fanatic sees light and converts to rugby

toomevara

From Today's Guardian, thought was a brilliant analysis of why rugby rocks:



Rugby uncovers the awful truth of my wasted life


Simon Hattenstone
Wednesday October 10, 2007
The Guardian

Saturday night, and it hits me. I've made a bollocks of my life. I've lived a lie, as repentant drug cheats and headline writers say. For 35 years, I've given myself totally to football, the greatest game on the planet, and it turns out to be nothing of the sort.
My anti-epiphany occurs after watching England beat Australia and France knock out New Zealand in the Rugby World Cup - two of the most knuckle-chewing, mouth-parching, sphincter-tightening matches I have seen in any sport. God knows how good it gets when you understand the rules.

Everything about rugby union seems better than football - the drama, pace and one-twos, the passion, skill and muscle, the deadly grace and savage beauty of it all. Even when the countries sing their respective national anthems they do so with more verve.
And yet I had always dismissed rugby as legalised assault on a games field by cauliflower-eared, cud-chewing public schoolboys. It was a class thing, of course. Rugby was not on my radar as a child. We didn't play the game at Kersal High. Rugby was for double-barrelled toffs. A few lads went to the rugby league at Salford, but even they were regarded as strange, especially Jessy, who went on to have an ear ripped off when racing a Mini across the road on his 21st birthday. (Mind you, he had celebrated with 21 pints of Guinness.)

No, we played football - the game of the people. Yes, the same football that now regularly charges punters 40 quid plus per Premier League game and bullies season-ticket holders to watch every crap cup match for the privilege of a season ticket.

Meanwhile, it turns out that you can watch Jonny Wilkinson at Newcastle Falcons for a tenner a head; that two opposing sets of rugby fans can sit in a pub and watch a match, chat intelligently, and not pummel each other to death; that rugby players don't live in gated properties, don't cut themselves off from their fans, and go on to do sensible things with their lives when they retire; that, in short, rugby (union and league) is the game of the people.

Instead of a joyous awakening, my rugby moment prompts an existential crisis. If I can't even get my sport right, what else have I got wrong? Do I know myself at all, or have I just stumbled through life blinded by presumption and prejudice?

I draw a mental picture of who I think I am - a football-loving, beer-swilling non-conformist. Really? Then I think about the dread with which I leave home for Manchester City matches, how I clock-watch at the match, even this season when we're in Svennis Heaven.

As for the beer, I've noticed that virtually every time I go into a pub these days I take my pint back and tell the bar staff that it's off. It can't always be off, can it? And if I'd been a genuine non-conformist, I would have followed rugby in the first place.

Everything is beginning to unravel. Four weeks into the Rugby World Cup and I am mutating into a classic rugger-bugger. Perhaps that was always the true me.

I phone up my football friends to help me through my identity crisis. "It's weird. I've just watched the rugby, and it's brilliant, and I love it, and it's freaked me," I squeal to anybody who'll listen. "Of course you love it," Not-So-Fast Laurence says. "We all love it. Rugby is a far superior game to football." What's with the "we" all of a sudden? I ask Spurs-mad Swanny for advice. He tells me rugby is the finest sport on earth, and he played it at college - competitively.

Last hope - Dave the Glaswegian miserablist, a devoted Rangers fan. "Aye rugby, great sport," he raves. "Nae nil-nil draws played oot by a buncha cheatin', ower-paid big girls' blooses who spend hauf the game rollin' aroon the groon as though they've bin poleaxed by Mike Tyson when they've just been gently tapped encouringingly on the shooder by a slightly ower-freenly Glaswegian commiseratin' with them on a wee bit o' goalkeeping misfortune." Now I know how Josef K felt.

Why've they kept it to themselves all this time? These people are supposed to be my friends. Why did the bastards never tell me?

I fear it's too late for me, whoever I am. As Quentin Crisp said, some time before dying of a heart attack brought on by the shock of finding himself in Chorlton-cum-Hardy: "It's no good running a pig farm badly for 30 years while saying, 'Really, I was meant to be a ballet dancer.' By then, pigs will be your style." I reckon I'm stuck with the pigs.

Diamondmaker

The part about being able to see JW or BOD for example from 10 feet at a small venue for a tenner and the fact that rugby players go on mostly to work after their careers and live much more "normal" lives was very intereting.

This does suggest that rugby is a much more accesable sport to the average man, compared to Stevie G and Becham who are as rich as a small country ( or a big one in Beck Mans case ) and live in huge mansions with gates , security and 20 cars.

I know which sport I would rather my kids grow up with as role models, a sport where completing an education in parallel is encouraged with the likes of likely World PLayer of the year Dr Phil can bring up a child, copete in a world cup succecsfully, have a wife, co captain his club and still find the time to complete a medical studies is just the pinnacle of a role model.

Compare this to scum bag, spoilt millionaire at 16 Wayne Rooney and his wife that will never know the meaning of the word work.

Rjd2

Diamondmaker wrote:

.

Compare this to scum bag, spoilt millionaire at 16 Wayne Rooney and his wife that will never know the meaning of the word work.

So you are tarring a whole profession due to one person who lets not forget has done nothing worse than cheat on his girlfriend sure its not something to be proud of but hes a young lad and him and his wife have made up. Maybe Trevor Brennan and the player who nearly squeezed the life out of Ronan O Gara are better role models?
I hate class snobbery.

toomevara

Diamondmaker wrote:

I know which sport I would rather my kids grow up with as role models, a sport where completing an education in parallel is encouraged with the likes of likely World PLayer of the year Dr Phil can bring up a child, copete in a world cup succecsfully, have a wife, co captain his club and still find the time to complete a medical studies is just the pinnacle of a role model.

Agree completely, do worry about pricing issues for international rugby union though. WC prices scandalous.

toomevara

Rjd2 wrote:

I hate class snobbery.

It's not about class at all. I'm a rugby league fanatic and it doesnt get more working class than that. No RL player would want to carry on like a footballer. it's a sporting culture thing....

Diamondmaker

Rjd2 wrote:

So you are tarring a whole profession due to one person who lets not forget has done nothing worse than cheat on his girlfriend sure its not something to be proud of but hes a young lad and him and his wife have made up. Maybe Trevor Brennan and the player who nearly squeezed the life out of Ronan O Gara are better role models?
I hate class snobbery.

There are thugs in all sports non more than the other!

I think it is fair to say that most pro rugby players who have to plan for a future career in most cases make a better role model for a young kid than a blinged out millionaire 20 y/o who can retire for life at the end of 5 years in the prem.

Life as a rugby pro is more close to the "real" world than that of a footballer amd there is much less play acting and dissent towads the ref and fellow players.

uberwolf

it's not all good.

Rugby players now celebrate scores by hugging each other. Nonces. Not like the good old days.

Borzoi

toomevara wrote:

Agree completely, do worry about pricing issues for international rugby union though. WC prices scandalous.

€35 for Ireland V Arg
€56 for France V Ireland
about a tenner to watch the minnows.

Even my QF ticket was about €60, semis about €120 not that I got to go

Hardly a scandal

You could of course have paid more, but the cheap seats suited me! (more money left for the expensive beer - now that was a scandal)




OT It's nice when the light suddenly dawns on some people:D

toomevara

Borzoi wrote: »

€35 for Ireland V Arg
€56 for France V Ireland
about a tenner to watch the minnows.

Fair play to you Borzoi, you're a cannier man than me, But I paid 165 Euros each for my two tickets (Argentina V Ireland),only ones I could get...flights from Leeds, night in local flea pit, and money for scandalously priced beer..didnt see much change out of 1500, not that I'm complaining, wouldnt have missed it. but it aint bleedin cheap!

Anyone chagrinned like me at the lack of alcohol in and around the stadiums..bloody 'amstel free' me hole!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

toomevara

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agree wholeheartedly, great fan of the old vin rouge meself, talking about in and around the match venues themselves...plus a rugby match without a good pint is sacrilege as far as I'm concerned...wouldnt fancy sitting there with a bottle of house red!...

moe_sizlak

Diamondmaker wrote: »

The part about being able to see JW or BOD for example from 10 feet at a small venue for a tenner and the fact that rugby players go on mostly to work after their careers and live much more "normal" lives was very intereting.

This does suggest that rugby is a much more accesable sport to the average man, compared to Stevie G and Becham who are as rich as a small country ( or a big one in Beck Mans case ) and live in huge mansions with gates , security and 20 cars.

I know which sport I would rather my kids grow up with as role models, a sport where completing an education in parallel is encouraged with the likes of likely World PLayer of the year Dr Phil can bring up a child, copete in a world cup succecsfully, have a wife, co captain his club and still find the time to complete a medical studies is just the pinnacle of a role model.

Compare this to scum bag, spoilt millionaire at 16 Wayne Rooney and his wife that will never know the meaning of the word work.

the average argentine wouldnt have had the kind of priveledged upbringing that fellipe contempomi did , ive been to argentina myself , rugby is an ellitist sport over there , not many know this but there is an aristocrocy in argentina , not a royal family as such but an ellite group of landowners whos tradtions goes way back , polo is very big in argentina

il gatto

I knew that. Do I win something?

Diamondmaker

moe_sizlak wrote: »

the average argentine wouldnt have had the kind of priveledged upbringing that fellipe contempomi did , ive been to argentina myself , rugby is an ellitist sport over there , not many know this but there is an aristocrocy in argentina , not a royal family as such but an ellite group of landowners whos tradtions goes way back , polo is very big in argentina

Privelaged or not you gotta admire a guy who plays pro ball as well as him, married with infant and still is able to study exams.

Its not about privelage or not to handle that time table and still be good at what you do.

moe_sizlak

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Privelaged or not you gotta admire a guy who plays pro ball as well as him, married with infant and still is able to study exams.

Its not about privelage or not to handle that time table and still be good at what you do.

its hardly the stuff of legends , its not mandella style struggle

toomevara

moe_sizlak wrote: »

its hardly the stuff of legends , its not mandella style struggle

It's all relative is'nt it?...Anyway we shouldn't conclude that just because rugby has its roots in elite society in Argentina, which it does, that everyone who pulls on a rugby shirt is minted. They ain't...many of the players plying their trade in the Argentinian league do so for a pittance and liVe on bugger all.

While Argentina is recovering from its disastrous economic crash its still a basket case by our standards. If a guy can use rugby, get out and play for the likes of Stade Francais or Bristol, make a few shekels for the family back home and start a life for himself, more power to him....

moe_sizlak

toomevara wrote: »

It's all relative is'nt it?...Anyway we shouldn't conclude that just because rugby has its roots in elite society in Argentina, which it does, that everyone who pulls on a rugby shirt is minted. They ain't...many of the players plying their trade in the Argentinian league do so for a pittance and liVe on bugger all.

While Argentina is recovering from its disastrous economic crash its still a basket case by our standards. If a guy can use rugby, get out and play for the likes of Stade Francais or Bristol, make a few shekels for the family back home and start a life for himself, more power to him....

agree with that , my issue is with the authors post where he lambassts soccer players for not having the kind of class that he sees in the likes of contepomi
surely he knows that contepomi had it easier than maradonna did growing up , ive been to argentina , took the tour in bueonos aires and seen the house where maradonna grew up , a shack which you wouldnt put a dog in , maradonna had only football to make it out of there , contepomi had medicine like his dad , that he had rugby was just a bonus

ThomasH

it's not all good.

Rugby players now celebrate scores by hugging each other. Nonces. Not like the good old days.

You must be a soccer fan. It's called good sportmanship and the emotion that comes out when you or your team mate score is something that you cannot describe to someone unless you have actually been there or felt it.

If you have been there and did not feel the emotion then take up another sport.

gosplan

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Are you making a point or is this just a brilliant analogy about the price difference between rugby and football.

I love football but Rugby has a sporting culture that football could only dream of. Frankly if this world cup has done one thing, it's pointed out to a massive amount of people how truly pathetic the carrying on on football fields is nowadays.

Regardless of what happens in the final my moment of the world cup was Phil C coming back on the pitch after Argentina lost and hugging his SA counterparts that he had just got binned for lashing out at.

That is the spirit that in which all contests should be fought.

toomevara

moe_sizlak wrote: »

maradonna had only football to make it out of there

Well lets hope Sanzar or the 6N finally let the guys in so that the next Maradonna can legitimatly choose between rugby or football!

Also moe, I dont necessarily hold with the viewpoint that because your poor/working class you'll be less likely to be sporting or comport yourself with dignity on the field.

Dont want to harp on about it but rugby league,a sport which has its roots in the impoverished back streets of Northern England has a culture completely different to that of football even though many of its players share the same backround. It's also been professional for over a hundred years, so it aint to do with money either. For me its about the sport's culture and I'd have to say that football's is utterly ethically and morally bankrupt, but them I'm hopelessly biased...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

toomevara

gosplan wrote: »

Are you making a point or is this just a brilliant analogy about the price difference between rugby and football.

Good lord, sometimes you can read way too much into a thing...occcasionally,only very occasionally mind, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck..ahem... it is a duck...

By the way daveirl, I'm not the only one chagrinned, english fans are currently mounting a campaign to get real beer re-instated in and around the grounds...apparently alot of folk didn't even know they were spending 5.60 a pint for alcohol free...tho, I spose if you're English at the mo you dont really need the beer, the lucky gits.....

marco_polo

gosplan wrote: »

Are you making a point or is this just a brilliant analogy about the price difference between rugby and football.

I love football but Rugby has a sporting culture that football could only dream of. Frankly if this world cup has done one thing, it's pointed out to a massive amount of people how truly pathetic the carrying on on football fields is nowadays.

Regardless of what happens in the final my moment of the world cup was Phil C coming back on the pitch after Argentina lost and hugging his SA counterparts that he had just got binned for lashing out at.

That is the spirit that in which all contests should be fought.

Maybe I'm slow but I thought the analogy was that you can by a bottle of wine for €6-7 which is the same as a pint of beer in Paris?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

moe_sizlak

toomevara wrote: »

Well lets hope Sanzar or the 6N finally let the guys in so that the next Maradonna can legitimatly choose between rugby or football!

Also moe, I dont necessarily hold with the viewpoint that because your poor/working class you'll be less likely to be sporting or comport yourself with dignity on the field.

Dont want to harp on about it but rugby league,a sport which has its roots in the impoverished back streets of Northern England has a culture completely different to that of football even though many of its players share the same backround. It's also been professional for over a hundred years, so it aint to do with money either. For me its about the sport's culture and I'd have to say that football's is utterly ethically and morally bankrupt, but them I'm hopelessly biased...

your also selective in choosing the points i made and managed to take the entire selection of posts i made out of context
i was,nt making the point that it was any harder for someone from maradonas backround to conduct himself well as a sportsman on or off the field

what i was saying was that maradonna unlike contempomi who had medicine like his father before him only had football as a meal ticket , this was in response to the authors post who was singing the praised of contepomi for being able to become a doctor aswell as a rugby player for his country

toomevara

moe_sizlak wrote: »

your also selective in choosing the points i made and managed to take the entire selection of posts i made out of context

Apologies if I did....still hate bleedin' football though, not because of the game itself, although I find it horrendously boring, each to their own, but because of the horrible culture around it....

moe_sizlak

toomevara wrote: »

Apologies if I did....still hate bleedin' football though, not because of the game itself, although I find it horrendously boring, each to their own, but because of the horrible culture around it....

i like the world cup and 6 nations but apart from that dont really follow rugby that much , in my experience , for every 10 games of rugby about 8 are borring , with soccer , id say about every 5 at most , there is nothing more borring than a dull game of rugby , rugby is very stop start and cynicism is a key part of winning in it hence the success of england and south africa

as regards the culture , well if ever there was a game with an obnoxious culture accompnying it , its rugby

RuggieBear

cynicism is the very hall mark of soccer. Look at the carry on of Dida to name but one very recent example.

As for obnoxious culture....it sure the hell beats the culture of tribalism and hooliganism that soccer tolerates and often actively encourages.

Besides how many nil all draws do you see in rugby? And even if we did see more of them they'd be bloody exciting and tense as the players/fans would know that one penalty anywhere in their half could cost them the game.

toomevara

moe_sizlak wrote: »

as regards the culture , well if ever there was a game with an obnoxious culture accompnying it , its rugby

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one moe, but, and I dont know if you've ever been, if you get a chance to get to a rugby league game, take it..think you might be pleasantly surprised by the atmosphere and crowd....

I think maybe when you're talking about obnoxious culture you might mean the old Hooray Henry, public school malarkey, which I too absolutely despise. But increasingly it's a thing of the past...anyway each to his own I reckon...

moe_sizlak

toomevara wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one moe, but, and I dont know if you've ever been, if you get a chance to get to a rugby league game, take it..think you might be pleasantly surprised by the atmosphere and crowd....

I think maybe when you're talking about obnoxious culture you might mean the old Hooray Henry, public school malarkey, which I too absolutely despise. But increasingly it's a thing of the past...anyway each to his own I reckon...

yes , that is the kind of obnoxiousness i was referring to , heard jim glennon refer to this some time back on the radio , he claimed its mainly only a leinster rugby trait at this stage , as regards the lack of tribalism in rugby fans , declan lynch of the sindo ,a very humorous writer on many topics has said something that many including myself agree with , as he puts it , at the end of the day rugby doesnt really matter , as he put it , when celtic play rangers , you have to have barbed wire fences seperating both set of fans and they each drink afterwards in there own watering holes where as he says with rugby , you have an english solicitor rugby fan and an irish solicitor rugby fan standing together at the match and afterwards in the pub united against the common good as he put it , his article is very satirical but his point is that there is almost too much good blood between rugby fans for there to be any real passion or intensity

AlphaMale 3OO

moe_sizlak wrote: »

when celtic play rangers , you have to have barbed wire fences seperating both set of fans and they each drink afterwards in there own watering holes

and this is a good thing?

moe_sizlak

forbesii wrote: »

and this is a good thing?

i used an extreme but familiar example , look beyond that to the core point
what he said will resonate with many non rugby loyalists

gjim

i used an extreme but familiar example , look beyond that to the core point
what he said will resonate with many non rugby loyalists

Excuse me but what a bunch of b*llox. Inter-fan violence or the threat of it has absolutely nothing to do with the importance or popularity of soccer. Recent experience in England suggests that soccer has become far MORE popular as the unsavioury elements have been tackeled and eliminated. Here in Ireland, the fans of a particular Dublin soccer club have been involved in a number of violent incidents in recent years; in your world, that would make FAI club soccer more significant than GAA or rugby. Violence and bad behaviour has nothing to do with a sport's significance or popularity.

Just because you read some sh*te a journalist has written which confirms your prejudice doesn't make it true.

moe_sizlak

gjim wrote: »

Excuse me but what a bunch of b*llox. Inter-fan violence or the threat of it has absolutely nothing to do with the importance or popularity of soccer. Recent experience in England suggests that soccer has become far MORE popular as the unsavioury elements have been tackeled and eliminated. Here in Ireland, the fans of a particular Dublin soccer club have been involved in a number of violent incidents in recent years; in your world, that would make FAI club soccer more significant than GAA or rugby. Violence and bad behaviour has nothing to do with a sport's significance or popularity.

Just because you read some sh*te a journalist has written which confirms your prejudice doesn't make it true.

if your not familiar with the article by declan lynch , it may not be possible for you to appreciate what he was saying , neither him or i claimed that soccers popularity was down to any violence by fans that may accompanay it

AlphaMale 3OO

yours and his arguement are ridiculous though. just because declan lynch dosent care for rugby doesnt mean a significant number of people dont.

gjim

if your not familiar with the article by declan lynch , it may not be possible for you to appreciate what he was saying , neither him or i claimed that soccers popularity was down to any violence by fans that may accompanay it

What are you on about man? You said

at the end of the day rugby doesnt really matter , as he put it , when celtic play rangers , you have to have barbed wire fences seperating both set of fans and they each drink afterwards in there own watering holes

and I said is that it's b*llox to claim that it's the "violence or THREAT of violence between fans" that makes soccer important. The barbed wire is there simply because there is possibility of violence and no other reason. Dress it up whatever way you want but that's a fairly straightforward reading of your claim.

Listen, your not the first person to read something by some journalist which supports their prejudice and ignorance but don't expect us all to lap it up.