Irish moves don't show a very nice view of the country

The Denouncer

I don't know how anyone wants to come here after watching an Irish movie.
While other countries have a mixture of movies that work well for their tourism industry, as well as the grittier kind, almost every single Irish film paints the country as being made up of green fields or ****hole urban areas of towering flats and horses on streets. From Into the West, which was charming but highly unflattering view of Ballymun Tower blocks, corrupt police, travellers caravans, post-apocalypic filthy urban streets and the rest (Was this really what it was like 15 years ago?) to Intermission, Man About Dog..christ more balaclavas, greyhounds, IRA references, gamblers, drunkards, travellers etc.. Are travellers really such a factor in Irish society to feature in every second movie?
Adam and Paul another great view of Dublins hole crack, Garage same director, a highly unflattering view of rural life..jesus I know the film-makers don't work for Bord Failte but for Gods sake sing a new tune! At least try and make an interesting movie that doesn't see grimed in the pre-Celtic Tiger hell!
Maybe its just me that's sick of Irish movies..yeah probably just me.

Basq

What about 'Once'? I haven't seen it but it appears to be a more realisic portrayal of Dublin from what i've seen in clips / trailers.

The Denouncer

I haven't seen Once I admit. Will rent that one as it sounds a bit better than the usual muck, a rarity. When Brendan Met Trudy seemed a bit more like the Dublin I know but also had balaclavas in it..damn those balaclavas!
Are film-makers not allowed to shoot anywhere near Stephens Green?

Karl Hungus

It's certainly true that Irish films portray a very negative image of Ireland, but I think that's just a symptom of the loathing a lot of people here have for their country. There's a lack of pride in Ireland that I think is nothing short of national masochism, and it truly shows.

The Denouncer

Karl Hungus wrote:

It's certainly true that Irish films portray a very negative image of Ireland, but I think that's just a symptom of the loathing a lot of people here have for their country. There's a lack of pride in Ireland that I think is nothing short of national masochism, and it truly shows.

Thats the thing though..in Ireland there is a national hatred of the country and self-loathing (probably a post-colonial thing) , but as soon as I go abroad and hear nothing but compliments from people about it like "Oh yeah its great! rains a lot though..". When in Chicago I came across a newspaper article about countries with most national pride in the world. USA was first, followed by..Ireland.

bugler

What do you want, a film about how we have lots of pubs? Or that we're supposedly friendly?

You need a decent story. "This is a nice country", as a theme for a film is about as interesting as wet tissue.

Whether you like it or not, the IRA are the most interesting thing that ever happened to Ireland.

projectmayhem

Karl Hungus wrote:

It's certainly true that Irish films portray a very negative image of Ireland, but I think that's just a symptom of the loathing a lot of people here have for their country. There's a lack of pride in Ireland that I think is nothing short of national masochism, and it truly shows.

nail -> head.

my main issue with irish film isn't that it portrays the country as such a kip, but that it's "irish film". film made from an irish perspective, focusing the narrative on the fact that it's irish people in ireland. why can't we make FILMS that just happen to be made in ireland?

Karl Hungus

bugler wrote:

What do you want, a film about how we have lots of pubs?

That sounds excellent!

The Denouncer

There is a wealth of folklore there, history, a pagan past..I'd like to see films about the tales of yore..you have Setanta, Tir na Nog, Children of Lir, Viking invasions, Newgrange..I know Brian Boru is goign to be made, that's a start.
In modern day something like Bridget Jones perhaps..I know P.S. I Love You will more known for Gerard Butlers accent that the story! Anything that doesn't involve greyhounds, the IRA or balaclavas.

Dodge

projectmayhem wrote:

why can't we make FILMS that just happen to be made in ireland?

The only film I can think off is "I Went Down" which could've been made anywhere.

Karl Hungus

The Denouncer wrote:

There is a wealth of folklore there, history, a pagan past..I'd like to see films about the tales of yore..you have Setanta, Tir na Nog, Children of Lir, Viking invasions, Newgrange..I know Brian Boru is goign to be made, that's a start.
In modern day something like Bridget Jones perhaps..I know P.S. I Love You will more known for Gerard Butlers accent that the story! Anything that doesn't involve greyhounds, the IRA or balaclavas.

Considering the wealth of mythology we have, I'd say there could be some fantastic Irish horror films, if someone put their mind to it.

Dodge wrote:

The only film I can think off is "I Went Down" which could've been made anywhere.

That was perhaps one of the best Irish films I've seen, and it's a pity there's no DVD release for it.

Basq

Karl Hungus wrote:

That was perhaps one of the best Irish films I've seen, and it's a pity there's no DVD release for it.

Yep, i went on a search for it recently. It was released on Region 4 DVD (Australia) but it's long out of print now.

And we're in a bad state when our only alternative is ordering the film in German.

Karl Hungus

basquille wrote:

Yep, i went on a search for it recently. It was released on Region 4 DVD (Australia) but it's long out of print now.

And we're in a bad state when our only alternative is ordering the film in German.

Definetly a sorry state of affairs, and apparently the guys who made the film had been pressing for a DVD release, but nothing has been done about it.

Interestingly enough, I've been ranting on my blog that there's no DVD releases for Akira Kurosawa's Dreams, and Takeshi Kitano's Kids Return and A Scene At The Sea, so I think I'll be ranting about this next, because it really does deserve a DVD release, and it's a crying shame there is none.

monkeyfudge

I liked how The Actors showed off the city of Dublin... there were some lovely shots of interesting locations from around the city like George's Street Arcade and the parks.

Oh and in general it made sense when some was traveling from one part of the city to another they took a logical route through the city.... Stuff like the drive to the Rotunda in the Snapper make me angry with the stupid route that seems to be taken.

What was that film about the man who turns into a mouse? That plotted out it's routes correctly as well.

The Denouncer

monkeyfudge wrote:

What was that film about the man who turns into a mouse? That plotted out it's routes correctly as well.

Rat with Pete Posthwaite if I remember correctly, quirky little movie..very strange.

Wacker

I think the movie that gave the most accurate depiction of Ireland that I've seen in the last few years was Goldfish Memory. It doesn't flatter nor deride the country; it is just the backdrop. It's a decent enough flick.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366527/

faceman

The Denouncer wrote:

There is a wealth of folklore there, history, a pagan past..I'd like to see films about the tales of yore..you have Setanta, Tir na Nog, Children of Lir, Viking invasions, Newgrange..I know Brian Boru is goign to be made, that's a start.
In modern day something like Bridget Jones perhaps..I know P.S. I Love You will more known for Gerard Butlers accent that the story! Anything that doesn't involve greyhounds, the IRA or balaclavas.

wasnt there that american tv series shown on american tv about the celts or something? I cant remember the name now but it was a fantasy type thing set in celtic ireland? Was absolute drivel put was popular for a short time in the US from what i remember.

irishash

"about adam" would be a good example of a irish film that uses the country as a backdrop rather than for the narrative. not a good example of a movie though......

faceman

Karl Hungus wrote:

It's certainly true that Irish films portray a very negative image of Ireland, but I think that's just a symptom of the loathing a lot of people here have for their country. There's a lack of pride in Ireland that I think is nothing short of national masochism, and it truly shows.

i would both agree and disagree with you karl. big studio movies aside, each country has a wealth of films that dont paint a very good picture of their country from a certain perspective. Unless an individual watches a well balanced array of world cinema from many different nations, then we of course only see our own home grown movies alongside the major films.

I dont agree there is a high degree of loathing for the nation - if that was the case there would be more films with a stronger political message.

I know you have made a generalised statement so i wont say you are wrong etc, but taking films like adam and paul, garage etc to me, focus on the plight of the characters and the story rather than looking at a bigger picture of drug problems in dublin. The human condition if you will. Ultimately thats what attracts the viewing public to the film. Happy D4 dudes goin on the lash and the pull just isnt interesting. (and there was a film like that some years ago that was damn awful, but sorry i cant remember the name of it!)

We as a nation arent the flag waving attention seeking patriots that some other nations are, so i dont think we will ever get the back drop of the tri-colour with an irish person standing proud in front of it after defeating the bad guys or overcoming drug problems. "Michael collins" is more our style of painting our heroes. Some of you may disagree, but i'd imagine we would have seen it already if that was the case.

One final factor that we must consider about the irish film, is funding. Very few irish films are 100% funded by an irish entity.

this is deffo a good debate for the pub

Karl Hungus

faceman wrote:

I dont agree there is a high degree of loathing for the nation - if that was the case there would be more films with a stronger political message.

I think there is, and the fact that we don't see stronger political messages in Irish films is because it's a very Irish kind of loathing where we'll moan about things, and put down our country, but never make an effort to do something positive about it.

faceman wrote:

We as a nation arent the flag waving attention seeking patriots that some other nations are, so i dont think we will ever get the back drop of the tri-colour with an irish person standing proud in front of it after defeating the bad guys or overcoming drug problems. "Michael collins" is more our style of painting our heroes. Some of you may disagree, but i'd imagine we would have seen it already if that was the case.

Don't get me wrong, I'd probably throw up a little in my mouth if I saw a scene that used the tri-colour as you described. I don't really consider pride as flag-waving, but rather being happy with your country, a sense of home, if you know what I mean.

I don't particularly want to see anything flag-waving, but I'd like to see more films that aren't of the 'This is Ireland, and we suck' mentality, or as you bring up the point of a political message, at least that would be something more interesting.

Dodge

On a general point I agree with Karl Hungus. Look at our slavish devotion to UK newspapers, tv (even their news FFS), football teams while count how many column inches are devoted to "rip off Ireland" (despite iot being pretty much average in the overall cost of living/average wage) or how much RTE sucks, dspite them being pretty decent for a tiny little TV station...

Raekwon

The only movie that I can remember off the top of my head that didn't depict Ireland as the one of the most depressing places on the planet was Adout Adam.

It starred Stuart Townsend as a charmer who basically got down and dirty with three sisters (one of whom was the very lovely Kate Hudson). As far as I can remember it was mainly shot in nice areas such as Howth or Dalkey and all of the characters were fairly well off. Infact Townsend's character lived in a plush bachelor pad above the main square in Temple Bar so he obviously wasn't short of a few quid.

Btw I was forced to sit through this so that was no way a recommendation unless you dig chick-flicks

faceman

Karl Hungus wrote:

I think there is, and the fact that we don't see stronger political messages in Irish films is because it's a very Irish kind of loathing where we'll moan about things, and put down our country, but never make an effort to do something positive about it.

perhaps i misinterpreted your meaning of loathing. For me i dislike our government, policital structure due to the general shenigans that goes on in politics in ireland over the past few decades. However I am proud to be irish and of my roots and our culture. If i was to make a film to express my feeling, it would be to show the issues in politics and not anything else. Are we on the same page with this, or have i misinterpreted you?

wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I'd probably throw up a little in my mouth if I saw a scene that used the tri-colour as you described. I don't really consider pride as flag-waving, but rather being happy with your country, a sense of home, if you know what I mean.

I don't particularly want to see anything flag-waving, but I'd like to see more films that aren't of the 'This is Ireland, and we suck' mentality, or as you bring up the point of a political message, at least that would be something more interesting.

we have a very under-developed and under-funded film industry and perhaps what we need is an injection or to be brought to the level of what the uk has?

while I doubt we'll ever live in a utopian society where no one will ever have anything negative to say but i still dont believe our story tellers of today are saying we suck. then again, the celtic tiger resulted in alot of our culture disappearing with the celtic kiddies where many no longer want to hear tales of oisin, learn our national language, or sing a few ballads which does feel like we are losing part of our heritage.

its an interesting discussion none the less.

johnny_ultimate

I for one am very shocked at the poor state of the Irish film industry at the moment. As someone pointed out a few posts back, one of the main problems is that alot of Irish films are really very Oirish, and limit themselves to very specific groups of people.

There are many terrific foreign films that could be set anywhere in the world. If a Bergman, a Spielberg or a Kitano made a film in another country or language, it would still be a good film (as Spielberg and Kitano have, come to think of it), because they have depth and messages that transcend the country it was made in. A major issue with Irish films is that they want to let us know loud and clear that they were produced in Ireland, which can be problematic.

I hate to go on about the wonder of Once, but theres a film that could have been American or Ghanian or Asian and it would have still been a terrific piece of work. Except for the very first scene, it abandons the whole rubbing our face in the fact that "THIS IS SET IN IRELAND!", except of course for the accents. A problem with the likes of Garage or Adam & Paul is that they have distinctly Irish messages, and when you remove them, the film underneath isn't so terrific. Adam & Paul is a very good Irish film, but it's hardly the best drug addict drama that has ever existed. I liked it because it dealt with an Irish issue well, but it hardly had that impact abroad, whereas something like Requiem for A Dream has a universal appeal.

But perhaps the major problem is we just don't have that many talented writers and directors with the ability to make a universally appealing Irish film just yet. Look at the likes of Isolation - a big enough film by Irish standards, but it was utterly woeful, and it would be an embarrasment to send it overseas. There are signs that maybe talented people are starting to emerge, but yeah, our film industry really is in a pretty sordid state as it stands.

mike65

The Irish filum industry needs a shot of genre fiction be it horror or rom-com.

Would Eat the Peach be considered "too Irish/parochial"? Bloke looses job decides to build Wall of Death in middle of nowhere. Sounds like a Frank Capra idea!

Mike.

Nolanger

johnny_ultimate wrote:

A problem with the likes of Garage or Adam & Paul is that they have distinctly Irish messages, and when you remove them, the film underneath isn't so terrific.

Maybe so but they're still two of the most impressive Irish movies from this decade.

monkeyfudge

faceman wrote:

wasnt there that american tv series shown on american tv about the celts or something? I cant remember the name now but it was a fantasy type thing set in celtic ireland? Was absolute drivel put was popular for a short time in the US from what i remember.

There were two.

One was called the Mystic Knights of Tir Na Nóg which was a bit like the Power Rangers and I believe the other was called Howl or something and it was a bit like Xena Warrior Princess and it had Romans as the bad guys.

Bloody Romans!!!

Slutmonkey57b

I don't think that filmmakers are necessarily to blame for producing "samey" irish films - the question is, are there any interesting stories to tell about Ireland? As in stories that are could be set here that would be logically suited to Ireland, and not another place? I also don't agree that there's a lot of self-loathing in the country that explains it either - I think that the Irish are very proud of themselves, verging on Unwarranted Self Importance, but not of their country as a whole - when you travel it's not difficult to see why that's the case though.

faceman

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

I don't think that filmmakers are necessarily to blame for producing "samey" irish films - the question is, are there any interesting stories to tell about Ireland? As in stories that are could be set here that would be logically suited to Ireland, and not another place? I also don't agree that there's a lot of self-loathing in the country that explains it either - I think that the Irish are very proud of themselves, verging on Unwarranted Self Importance, but not of their country as a whole - when you travel it's not difficult to see why that's the case though.

Re "Logical suited to ireland" - those films dont always do well abroad - see michael collins for example, hence may not be a profitable move for film makers. Unless of course there is an element of the film adjusted to suit international audiences. (e.g. get A list american actors for the parts!)

film making is about story telling. Regardless of what the film is about, where its set etc, if you dont have a good story then you wont have an audience.

Nolanger

The director of Once said it best in a recent magazine interview: most Irish film makers seem to be obsessed with technique rather than having something original to say.
All the film courses in the world are no good when your mind is empty.

mike65

I don't know why anyone would imagine a parchocial historical melodrama like Michael Collins would sell overseas to be honest.

Mike.

monument

projectmayhem wrote: »

why can't we make FILMS that just happen to be made in ireland?

Once and Small Engine Repair are ones that come to my mind.

Third_Echelon

I kind of prefer to see 'real' movies about Ireland... Seeing things with beautiful scenery and diddly diddly irish dancers is just sickening to be honest.

Seen 'Garage' last night and I thought it was really good. Pretty depressing film overall, but it was 'real'. I think you could take that story and place it in any small town of any country and it would work ok. Ok... some of the back story/issues that the guy had are common across a lot of small towns in Ireland. I think anyone from a small town will know someone like Pat Shortt's character.

I would like to see some more films though that 'just happen to be set in ireland', but are not about Ireland specifically. We need to make more of those for our writer/directors to progress beyond telling 'an irish tale' with purely Irish issues..

faceman

Third_Echelon wrote: »

I would like to see some more films though that 'just happen to be set in ireland', but are not about Ireland specifically. We need to make more of those for our writer/directors to progress beyond telling 'an irish tale' with purely Irish issues..

technically, the Medallion and Braveheart fall into that category?

Third_Echelon

faceman wrote: »

technically, the Medallion and Braveheart fall into that category?

But in braveheart the scenes shot in Ireland were meant to be York and Scotland etc... not ireland...

Pigman II

Personally I think "Beerfest" has been the only movie in recent times to portray the Irish in an accurate light. We're a nation of boozers yet we can't even manage to be number#1 at that either.

ShiverinEskimo

In fairness - if you look across the water to our British counterparts. The movies that have gotten most of the headlines have been a scottish movie about heroin addiction, a comedy about unemployed steel workers turned strippers and two movies dealing with gangsters and organised crime in London. Target audience has to come into play - these films are aimed at people who know their country and don't need a tourism ad as a movie but one that will hold their interest and the IRA, Drugs and associated deaths of an Irish Journo, Organised Crime, etc. all hold our Interest. I know the ring of kerry is nice, I know the liffey looks nice with sufficient editing and atmospherics but Irish cinema wont progress without interesting movies about our most interesting events - be they rebellion, the troubles, and the current social plagues that come with modern organised crime and drug trafficking. Its business.

You think our tourism board has it bad - the last two world famous movies to come from Australia were Wolfe Creek and Rogue. Mad murdering of backpackers and giant, tourist gobbling crocodiles. I've seen much coverage about their negativity on tourism in Western and Northern Australia - especially since both movies came from the same director. A movie that is currently doing the rounds here in Oz is about the sex trade in Melbourne. Beats movies about Koala bears and Kangaroos let me tell you.

meglome

basquille wrote: »

What about 'Once'? I haven't seen it but it appears to be a more realisic portrayal of Dublin from what i've seen in clips / trailers.

I thought Once portrayed Dublin very well. I recommend going to see it if they re-release it here at the same time as they release it in UK.