Car crash query

Schlemm

Mods feel free to delete/move as appropriate.

Had a bit of a small car accident today...was turning right from a small road onto a main road and there is a box junction on both sides of the road in front of me. On either side of the box junction there is a ghost island (ie its like an island but it's painted in rather than physically there). Further up ahead on the far side of the road, beyond the box junction, there is a lane for cars turning right. There was no traffic coming from my left. The cars across the road were stopped on either side of the box junction, but were just starting to pull off on the far side of the box as the lights were green. So as the road was clear of cars on my side coming from the right, and the box was clear and traffic was starting to move up ahead of the box, I checked both sides and pulled out.

The next thing is that this woman comes from my left (ie, on the far side of the road) parallel to the traffic (there's only 1 lane at this stage) across the ghost island and across the box junction...even though the lane to turn right for these cars doesn't start until after the box. So she hits me as I'm in the box junction.

So who is in the wrong?

Her insurance company asked to speak to me (prob shouldn't have talked to them) and the first thing he said to me on the phone is that I had admitted to being in the wrong...which I hadn't, I had said that she shouldn't have been coming up the wrong side of the road and I wasn't sure who was in the wrong. Then he told me that he thought I was in the wrong (anyone else I had spoken to said they couldn't say). Got her details and she was on her 1st provisional with nobody else in the car with her... would this have any bearing on the claim?

seamus

Schlemm wrote:

The next thing is that this woman comes from my left (ie, on the far side of the road) parallel to the traffic (there's only 1 lane at this stage) across the ghost island and across the box junction...even though the lane to turn right for these cars doesn't start until after the box. So she hits me as I'm in the box junction.

Initially I would say say that you are in the wrong. She was breaking the law by overtaking across a solid line/island, but you had failed to spot her and also failed to yield. Ultimately because you were pulling out from a road of less significance, your failure to yield was the first mistake.

The same situation has been played out a few other times - people driving in bus lanes, hitting vehicles crossing the bus lane, motorcycles overtaking on solid white lines hitting vehicle that pull out from between the cars. Most of the time you will find that right-of-way plays the biggest part - with the person who had it, winning the case. In this case, you didn't have right-of-way, she did, even if she was breaking the law.

This is speculation on my part however. I'm by no means any kind of crash expert. She should should the blame at least partially because of her own error.

Did you contact a Garda and have him at the scene? They're generally not supposed to make comments about liability, but they'll usually tell you what they think.

Her insurance company asked to speak to me (prob shouldn't have talked to them) and the first thing he said to me on the phone is that I had admitted to being in the wrong...which I hadn't, I had said that she shouldn't have been coming up the wrong side of the road and I wasn't sure who was in the wrong.

You're right, you shouldn't have talked to them
He may have thought if he could get you to admit liability at the scene, he's sorted. Contact your own insurance company and talk to them. Tell them honestly whether you think you're liable. They'll take care of it from there. If they think it's worth pursuing, they will. Otherwise they'll fold.

In my opinion, you will end up paying out on this to some degree, so you've nothing to lose by letting your insurance company handle it.

1st provisional with nobody else in the car with her... would this have any bearing on the claim?

Nope.

Schlemm

Thanks for the quick reply.

My brokers said that they couldn't say who's liable but that box junction claims often wind up in a 50-50 situation because it's not always very clear.

I definitely didn't see her when I was pulling out, and I did check, so the way I see it is that she pulled out of her lane as I was heading into the box junction at the same time and that neither of us saw each other. She hit me just as I was heading out of the box and into the lane ahead. I'm really annoyed with myself for speaking to her insurance company (but I suppose at least I could say that I wasn't admitting liability:rolleyes: ). He was an awful git to me on the phone too.

pirelli

Under section 38 of the road traffic act having a provisonal licence is sufficent to drive in public. . Provisonal's dont allow pillion passengers on motorbikes but all the provisonals carried pillions anyway and Hibernian had to pay out on each claim anyway .They gave up insurance for bikes because of it.As i say under section 38 the person has a right tio drive and if the licencing authority is unhappy with this they will issues special disqualification. If the person had a special disqualification then that would be a real issue.

What difference does it make. Technically You cant drive on a third provisonal with out a full licence person but lawfully you can drive.

It sounds like the woman was wrong if she drove across the hatching.

cantdecide

Schlemm wrote:

...he was an awful git to me on the phone too...

Probably an officious little coxucker- he'll sleep soundly tonight for cornering a shaken accident victim, this is hardly the company poilicy of an ethical insurance company. People like him should be exterminated, but bear in mind the conversation was probably recorded.

Schlemm

She was really reluctant to hand over her licence as well. I said it to the insurance company that it was her first provisional to maybe it'll contribute something. Even more infuriating is that I have a full licence (for about 3 years now) plus hibernian ignition and no points, clear slate, and so on, and she wasn't even on the road!!

Del2005

Schlemm wrote:

She was really reluctant to hand over her licence as well. I said it to the insurance company that it was her first provisional to maybe it'll contribute something. Even more infuriating is that I have a full licence (for about 3 years now) plus hibernian ignition and no points, clear slate, and so on, and she wasn't even on the road!!

As said by the others her provisional license makes no difference, she's allowed to drive and it's up to the courts/government to change that. She was driving on the main road and you pulled out in front of her, just cause she crossed a line on the road doesn't make much of a difference. You can't drive on the hatching, but I failed a test for not driving into it to clear a lane, so the testers make you drive into it. I'd say it'd come out 50/50 as you where both wrong, but unfortunately you where a bigger offender as you pulled out onto the main road that she was on.

-avey-

dont mean to go off topic, but i myself had a car accident few months ago..
was stopped at traffic lights on a main road comin out of town, now you can see these lights for a good bit coming up to them as the street is straight. got hit from behind by a drunken, uninsured, foreign driver :mad: luckily i reacted quickly and swerved and ended up on footpath in front of the car i'd bn parked behind and car that hit me ended up hittin car in front too. now i face a lengthy legal process tryin to gain some compensation, i was left with pretty bad whiplash and written off car, and all he got was a €400 fine n 2yrs ban (which was due to drunk drivin, not lack of insurance). sometimes it feels like ders no justice
oh yea i've a full licence n my car was all up 2 date wit insurance n tax, his was hardly road worthy wit d state it was in, he had no insurance r licence and was well over d limit

Schlemm

Del2005 wrote:

As said by the others her provisional license makes no difference, she's allowed to drive and it's up to the courts/government to change that. She was driving on the main road and you pulled out in front of her, just cause she crossed a line on the road doesn't make much of a difference. You can't drive on the hatching, but I failed a test for not driving into it to clear a lane, so the testers make you drive into it. I'd say it'd come out 50/50 as you where both wrong, but unfortunately you where a bigger offender as you pulled out onto the main road that she was on.

I know she can drive on a 1st provisional, but she was in the car alone...are you not supposed to have a licenced driver with you if it's your 1st prov? TBH if I were in her shoes I'd be mortified...driving up the side of the traffic illegally and ramming into somebody and then proceeding to yell at them that they were in the wrong when it wasn't entirely my fault and then being on your 1st provisional alone in the car...I just don't think I'd have the gall.

About driving over the hatching, eg, if you're on the main road and you want to turn right, and there's a separate right-turn lane with hatching behind it up ahead, but the right turn lane is full, so you drive onto the hatching so you don't cause an obstruction while waiting to turn right, which is ok as far as I know provided it's safe and you're not being an obstruction.

But this person drove over the hatching cause she wanted to get ahead of the rest of the traffic and turn right...had she waited to use the right turn lane, which was waaay up ahead, she wouldn't have obstruced anybody-the traffic wasn't particularly heavy and the lane had space. People always do that at this junction, it's a pain in the a$$ and I was watching out for it too before I pulled out. I'm positive I didn't see her when I went to pull out, and since my car was angled away from hers as I was going into the box when she hit me, I didn't see her coming. Why she didn't stop, I don't know, I was going fairly slow. I'd be happy if the insurance folk said 50 50 or something along those lines but if they say I'm 100% liable I'll have a fit!

littlejukka

as has been said, it'll probably be seen as 50-50 unfortunately. she shouldn't have been there, you should have seen her in time to stop and avoid the collision.

sorry to hear about it. people who habitually run reds, cross continuous white lines, drive over hatched markings and generally have no regard for their own or other people's safety are scum.

Schlemm

Thanks for the advice folks. Tis a pain to have this happen but I suppose it could've been an awful lot worse. And as Avey mentioned, the legal side of it is pretty dodgy sometimes but hopefully it'll work out. At least I'll know to keep my eyes peeled and never to speak to schmucks of other people's insurance people on the phone again!:rolleyes:

littlejukka

Schlemm wrote:

Thanks for the advice folks. Tis a pain to have this happen but I suppose it could've been an awful lot worse. At least I'll know to keep my eyes peeled and never to speak to schmucks of other people's insurance people on the phone again!:rolleyes:

is it your first crash? it's a learning experience

my first (and only, touch wood) was on the quays in cork, a guy changed lanes without looking, i was in the left hand lane waiting to turn left across the river and he just slammed hi front panel into mine.

thankfully he admitted full responsibility on the spot and gave me his details, name, number, insurance info etc and told me he'd pay cash for any and all repairs necessary. i was in a 1000 euro micra at the time and it ended up being a 5 minute repair to pop out a few big dents and a bit of paint touch-up, i didn't charge him anything.

Schlemm

littlejukka wrote:

is it your first crash? it's a learning experience

my first (and only, touch wood) was on the quays in cork, a guy changed lanes without looking, i was in the left hand lane waiting to turn left across the river and he just slammed hi front panel into mine.

thankfully he admitted full responsibility on the spot and gave me his details, name, number, insurance info etc and told me he'd pay cash for any and all repairs necessary. i was in a 1000 euro micra at the time and it ended up being a 5 minute repair to pop out a few big dents and a bit of paint touch-up, i didn't charge him anything.

At least there's some decent people out there!
Yup first (and hopefully last) crash, except for a minor prang a year or so ago where some tourists (in a rental car, I think) drove into the side of my car at one of those horrible roundabouts on the main road between Cork city and when you're heading out to West Cork. I was fairly shook up after it but they admitted straight away that it was their fault and apologised. They were so nice and reasonable about it but TBH those roundabouts in that part of Cork are the pits, I'd hate to be a tourist having to deal with them!

Schlemm

Well I thought I finally had it all sorted out: she subsequently changed her story saying that the traffic was moving and that she was in her lane when it happened (despite having agreed that it happened in the middle of the box junction on the day of the accident). Having no pictures of the scene I hadn't many options left and my insurance people said my side of the story wouldn't stand up in court at all. She got a quote for the damage on her car which sounded reasonable to me, so for a quiet life I agreed to pay the damage without admitting liability.

I phoned her (going on the advice of my insurance ppl) and told her that I would pay the damage/no liability/asked her how much her quote was for/etc. And the insurance company closed the file. But just as I was about to call her to ask her for the exact amount for the quote today, she contacted my insurance saying that she was concerned that the quote would not cover the damage! This is 2 weeks after she got the quote!

So my insurance are sending out a mechanic to independently asses the damage on her car. The person I've been dealing with was off today, but the different person I spoke to today said that she didn't think that the quote was enough judging by some of the pictures this lady has sent her and that it looked like a write off to her! It's a dent in the front right of the car and bumper ffs!! I sent pictures in that I took of her car and the person I usually deal with had never expressed concern over the damage or the amount of the quote.

Sorry about the rant, I just really want to get it off my chest. Some ppl are unbelievable IMO, and these car crash situations really bring out the worst in everybody.

pirelli

Schlemm wrote: »

Well I thought I finally had it all sorted out: she subsequently changed her story saying that the traffic was moving and that she was in her lane when it happened (despite having agreed that it happened in the middle of the box junction on the day of the accident). Having no pictures of the scene I hadn't many options left and my insurance people said my side of the story wouldn't stand up in court at all. She got a quote for the damage on her car which sounded reasonable to me, so for a quiet life I agreed to pay the damage without admitting liability.

I phoned her (going on the advice of my insurance ppl) and told her that I would pay the damage/no liability/asked her how much her quote was for/etc. And the insurance company closed the file. But just as I was about to call her to ask her for the exact amount for the quote today, she contacted my insurance saying that she was concerned that the quote would not cover the damage! This is 2 weeks after she got the quote!

So my insurance are sending out a mechanic to independently asses the damage on her car. The person I've been dealing with was off today, but the different person I spoke to today said that she didn't think that the quote was enough judging by some of the pictures this lady has sent her and that it looked like a write off to her! It's a dent in the front right of the car and bumper ffs!! I sent pictures in that I took of her car and the person I usually deal with had never expressed concern over the damage or the amount of the quote.

Sorry about the rant, I just really want to get it off my chest. Some ppl are unbelievable IMO, and these car crash situations really bring out the worst in everybody.

So how did it go?

Was she the first into the box or were your first into the box.? Was Traffic moving.? Did she lie for sure, did u see her before she crashed into you?. Why wont the insurance company believe you?.Does she have a witness?. If she is being dishonest about the damage then you should counter claim her as she will have no credibility.