HD Sportster opinions/ advice

cantdecide

Thinking about picking up an 883 sportster as essentially my first bike- almost 26 on prov- madness?

Any idea how much I'll pay for insurance? Do Quinn give a discount if your car's with them- (I've 6yrs NCB for car but i suppose that won't matter).

Aside from anything else- is it a lame duck HD?

I have driven bikes before but not extensively but I think most small framed bikes are out for me cos I'm 6'4" (not that the sportster is enormous) and I just end up squished up and uncomfortable whenever i sit on smaller bikes. (PS, before you suggest it- i just can't warm to the transalp shape bikes even though I know they're probably the best option for me)

Thoughts?

Thinkingaboutit

I had one before getting a VRSCR. I would see no problem. I got a VN 800 a few months after I started. Axa would give a discount for the car, though for QD I don't know. I would try to get lessons, and perhaps pass an assessment like the AON or Quinn Direct Assessment (all one scheme). The greatest problems would be a lack of experience and the extra that insurers seem to ask for H-Ds. Still if you can get insurance they are an easy to handle and compact machine. Get some quotes from the insurers first. There is no point thinking about it if insurance is too expensive.

cantdecide

Would it be possible to get some training with the intention of getting the driving test passed before I try for insurance? I'm a very keen motorist in general, so gaining the feel of the bike would be my only obstacle...

galwaytt

cantdecide wrote:

Thinking about picking up an 883 sportster as essentially my first bike- almost 26 on prov- madness?

Any idea how much I'll pay for insurance? Do Quinn give a discount if your car's with them- (I've 6yrs NCB for car but i suppose that won't matter).

Aside from anything else- is it a lame duck HD?

I have driven bikes before but not extensively but I think most small framed bikes are out for me cos I'm 6'4" (not that the sportster is enormous) and I just end up squished up and uncomfortable whenever i sit on smaller bikes. (PS, before you suggest it- i just can't warm to the transalp shape bikes even though I know they're probably the best option for me)

Thoughts?

not trying to be smart, but if you can afford the H-D, then you probably have the wherewithal to pay for the insurance as well -neither are cheap.

The 883 is a nice little bike, but 60 mph feels like.......160 on it - no bad thing, mind, and lovely on a warm day pootling about. Presuming costs are a bit too far, there's probably no point in telling you about the 1200 - even though it's a much better bike, in the same frame, etc.

I've been riding bikes for 20+ yrs, and for almost the last 16, exclusively had BeeEmms. Loved them. However, they're not for everyone, and I fancied a change......there being no chance of transcontinental tours for a few years, I thought I'd change tack, and try a H-D. Wow..... it's the most enjoyable bike I've had in years.......as part of my search, I narrowed it down to a Sportster 1200 and a Road King. Let's just say I decided to give all of the SSIA instead of half of it.:rolleyes: ......and bought the Road King

But it was close, the Sportster I was looking at was very, very nice....... btw, I bought mine in Biketech in Galway 091 758626 (ask for Paul), and it's been a great experience, he always has a good few H-D's on the books.

If you can, do !!!

Wossack

cantdecide wrote:

Would it be possible to get some training with the intention of getting the driving test passed before I try for insurance? I'm a very keen motorist in general, so gaining the feel of the bike would be my only obstacle...

yes this is certainly possible, but of course it will come down to the individual

heard of at least one person going this avenue from the irish bike boards (biker.ie, irishbikerforum.com, cant remember which ) you'll get a fierce slaggin from the biker.ie crowd re the HD, but its all in good fun

cantdecide

Wossack wrote:

yes this is certainly possible, but of course it will come down to the individual

heard of at least one person going this avenue from the irish bike boards (biker.ie, irishbikerforum.com, cant remember which ) you'll get a fierce slaggin from the biker.ie crowd re the HD, but its all in good fun

Slagging? Tell us why, then:o

Wossack

aggricultural engines is the main one I think, that and people buying for the brand name

again though its all in good fun, for example:

hondas get slagged cause a recent survey showed a high number of homosexuals perfering the marque
all gsxr riders are scumbags
kawazakis break down all the time
yamahas make keyboards
ktms sh!te oil all the time
etc etc

friendly slaggin, not to be taken seriously

cantdecide

Do you mean Harleys in general or just the wee sportster?

The analogy I'd use to describe my fear is that (for the uninitiated) Takamine make very good quality guitars that usually cost from well over a grand to infinity and beyond. A couple of years ago I bought a lightweight, compact bodied low cost model for €650 or similar. I was delighted that i could get such a good quality brand for such a reasonable price.

After about a month I realised that as a guitar it was pretty good but as a Takamine, it was pretty crappy.

I like the shape and I know I'm restricted by my lack of experience/ license but I'm afraid I'd end up with a decent bike but a crappy Harley.

Is this irrational?

Hotblack Desiato

cantdecide wrote:

I'm a very keen motorist in general, so gaining the feel of the bike would be my only obstacle...

Sorry, but nothing could be further from the truth. It's like saying that because you're a confident car driver, flying a light aircraft can't be a big deal. Riding a bike isn't at all comparable to driving a car in terms of the skill and concentration required to do it well and safely.

cantdecide

Are you telling me that already being a motorist, using the roads everyday, knowing the rules of the roads better than most and taking great care to be as educated and safe a motorist as I can be for the greater part of a decade is no advantage whatsoever??

Another way- are you saying in essence that if I were telling you that I've never driven ANY vehicle on the road before, EVER and have no experience whatsoever and no knowledge whatsoever- I would be at no greater disadvantage??

How you use the engine and gears must be completey different then? There must be an ENTIRELY different approach to other road users, road signs, road markings and things that are hazards to a car driver are no longer hazards to motorcyclists and vice versa.

I never said I ASSUMED I was Valentino Rossi but to say bikes, cars and planes are all completely different and entirely incomparable vehicles....

Pigeon Reaper

There are some trains of thought that would agree that no previous experience is better. Knowing the rules of the road is an advantage as would previous experience cycling in traffic.

HD are big flashy heavy slow machines with expensive parts. They do have a lovely sound and look nice. It's certainly possible to get one as a first bike but I'd rather make my mistakes on a cheap jap 250cc which is easier to handle than a HD. A bike is very different from a car and if you think it's similar it's going to turn around and bite you hard. They both have engines, wheels and use roads but thats about it. Ninja was merely trying to highlight this despite being as diplomatic as a pissed elephant in musk.

Hotblack Desiato

cantdecide wrote:

Are you telling me that already being a motorist, using the roads everyday, knowing the rules of the roads better than most and taking great care to be as educated and safe a motorist as I can be for the greater part of a decade is no advantage whatsoever??

It's debatable whether it's any real help at all, yes.
Some of what you know will be of use. But mainly the easy stuff like recognising road signs.
What matters a lot to a novice rider is their attitude to learning (effectively, starting afresh) and taking training and being willing to think and act in a different way on a bike than in a car. I do both regularly and it's a totally different mindset you have to be in on the bike. I had my full car licence before starting on bikes, and while I don't think it hindered me, I don't think it helped either tbh.

Another way- are you saying in essence that if I were telling you that I've never driven ANY vehicle on the road before, EVER and have no experience whatsoever and no knowledge whatsoever- I would be at no greater disadvantage??

You might actually be better off. No possibility of bad habits to unlearn for one thing, much less risk of over-confidence. (Not that I'm saying you have bad habits, etc.)

How you use the engine and gears must be completey different then?

Yes, no synchromesh and the gearbox is sequential. You have to learn how to match engine revs to road speed when changing down, especially on a slippery surface. It's easy on a larger engined bike to skid the back wheel with a fluffed gearchange.

There must be an ENTIRELY different approach to other road users, road signs, road markings and things that are hazards to a car driver are no longer hazards to motorcyclists and vice versa.

Yes, actually, for all of those things. You still stop at a stop sign, etc. but how you approach hazards like that has to be different.

I never said I ASSUMED I was Valentino Rossi but to say bikes, cars and planes are all completely different and entirely incomparable vehicles....

They all burn fuel and have wheels but that's about it, when it comes to how to operate them safely and well. Not just the skills required but the attitude and concentration levels (and risks, and consequences of making a mistake) are quite different. I really don't mean to get on your case, but I've seen a few people come a cropper because they thought bikes and cars weren't all that different

cantdecide

If you had your car test passed, how do you know what learning without car experience would have been like? If this worked for you- why wouldn't it work for me? Were you a quiet little boy when you started or did you use the applicable knowledge as an advantage? I know 2 guys who crashed the very day they got their first bikes, without any road experience.

You seem to be saying that because I have car experience, to be safe, I shouldn't learn to drive a bike cos it's too dangerous? I think that's either a bit elitist or a bit egotistical. Sequential bike gearboxes aren't unmanageable and it's not like you don't have to match revs in a car.


Would I ask about training if I was being neglectful about learning properly?



PS, planes have wings as their primary design feature and they go in the sky, not on the road (except runways, I'll grant you), so if you're finished spoiling the thread....

Canaboid

and with that attitude that's about all the advice you'll get here.

Ninja's point was this "Riding a bike isn't at all comparable to driving a car in terms of the skill and concentration required to do it well and safely." and he's right.

cantdecide

Canaboid wrote:

"Riding a bike isn't at all comparable to driving a car in terms of the skill and concentration required to do it well and safely." and he's right.

What he said was;

ninja900 wrote:

Sorry, It's like saying that because you're a confident car driver, flying a light aircraft can't be a big deal.

I'm sorry but he can't say 'the ENTIRE bike driving experience is as different as planes and cars....well, the skill and concentration part anyway'.

It's like saying that the whole rainbow is yellow-well, the yellow part anyway.

Sorry but I never said it was ENTIRELY the same. He's quoted me totally out of context.

I'm the one with the attitude?? I don't ride bikes at the moment. I'm not a regular poster here but that doesn't mean I'm a plaything for the macho. I was looking for advice not arrogance and I'm just glad i got some prior to this.

SidinNaas

You should listen to those that tell you driving a car for several years is more than likely a disadvantage. Of course, none of the contributors knows your ability although you sound as though you may be over-confident (unjustifiably so it would seem from the information you gave).

My adivce is to contact one of the insurance companies and get a list of recognised training and testing centres and book some lessons. They will tell you whether you are as safe as you hope you might be and, if not, they can help you become safer. Worked for me after riding for 10 years and stopping for 7.

cantdecide

What he said was (again, for the record);

ninja900 wrote:

...nothing could be further from the truth...

That means it is completely wrong to think being a car driver is in any way an advantage.

The very next sentence is

ninja900 wrote:

...Riding a bike isn't at all comparable to driving a car in terms of the skill and concentration...

My rainbow analogy works well here I think.

If what he's said was 'whoa there, not all aspects of car driving gives the advantage you think it does so be careful'....why didn't he just say that?? I think it's clear he wasn't concerned for my safety or the safety of anyone- he would prefer to insult.

SidinNaas wrote:

You should listen to those that tell you driving a car for several years is more than likely a disadvantage....you may be over-confident (unjustifiably so it would seem from the information you gave)

There's no point being bashful- I plan to learn and I'll make no assumptions about it and I hav eno ego about it but I have no idea what the issues are until I'm out there.

Before today, I have never been told that car driving is a disadvantage. What I have been told by many family and friends who have bikes is that it's like driving a car but you have to processfar more information far more carefully and quickly.

I know the second part of your post is sound advice, SidinNaas- I'm already making enquiries but...
if you learned to drive a car before a bike, how can you be sure it was no advantage. If you learned to drive a bike before a car, how can you be so sure you had an advantage?

Which came first, chicken or egg....

Bikes and cars are completely different. Make sure you get some proper lessons when you get your bike and enjoy it.

Quint

cantdecide wrote:

Thinking about picking up an 883 sportster as essentially my first bike- almost 26 on prov- madness?

Any idea how much I'll pay for insurance? Do Quinn give a discount if your car's with them- (I've 6yrs NCB for car but i suppose that won't matter).

Aside from anything else- is it a lame duck HD?

I have driven bikes before but not extensively but I think most small framed bikes are out for me cos I'm 6'4" (not that the sportster is enormous) and I just end up squished up and uncomfortable whenever i sit on smaller bikes. (PS, before you suggest it- i just can't warm to the transalp shape bikes even though I know they're probably the best option for me)

Thoughts?

Go to www.biker.ie, and post it in General. Too many moany moral police on boards.ie!

Hotblack Desiato

Where to start? :rolleyes:

cantdecide wrote:

If this worked for you- why wouldn't it work for me?

I never said that it wouldn't. Just that there are things to watch out for.

Were you a quiet little boy when you started or did you use the applicable knowledge as an advantage?

What applicable knowledge? You have zero knowledge of bikes. That's not a criticism, just a fact, a fact that will bite you if you're not careful, no matter how much experience you have on other vehicles.

I know 2 guys who crashed the very day they got their first bikes, without any road experience.

So what?

You seem to be saying that because I have car experience, to be safe, I shouldn't learn to drive a bike cos it's too dangerous?

I never said that either.


Oh, and it's perfectly obvious to anyone who read my first post on this thread that my "nothing could be further from the truth" comment was in response to your comment that all you needed to do on the bike was "get the feel of it", please don't quote me out of context or try to twist what I said.

I and others here are trying to give you well-intentioned advice, the last thing we want is another learner becoming a statistic, but it seems that you're not willing to take advice in the spirit in which it was given. So be it. You'll get no more help from me. Good luck now.

mickbyrne

Go for the sportster.

I'd driven a car for over 10 year and felt that I was a handy enough driver. I'd always wanted a bike but needed a car. Eventually got a sportser 883 2 years ago as my first bike. Bought it from Waterford Harley Davidson. Borrowed my brothers helmet and jacked. Collected the bike and rode it home 50 miles. I was never on a bike before. Got lessons the following week and I've been 'flying' ever since.
Outgrew the sportster after 6 months and bought a '93 softail. Three great things about harleys:
1 - They don't speed well, likely to live longer;
2 - If you buy something over 5 years old it won't lose much more value;
3 - The engines are so basic, there is very little that can go wrong.

I've put 10k on mine this year in all types of weather, and the more I'm on it the more I like it. Also went on a hog trip to scotland this year. Over 50 from Ireland at it. It was the best weekend I've ever had and met people from all corners of Ireland as well.

Fr Dougal

Car experience will stand to you in so far as you know the rules of the road etc.

However, in my experience, bike riding is very different. I have a full car licence for 20+ years and never took an hour's training. However, returning to bikes this year I have already spent €250 on training and another €150 next week on pre-test.

Generally, in a car, drivers think they are invincible and don't care once they have the right of way. On a bike it doesn't matter who has right of way, the biker always comes out worse in a collision. Someone once said to me, if you replaced the airbag with a 6" spike coming out of the steering wheel, peoples driving and awareness would improve significantly. The point I am trying to make is that the more likely you are to suffer injury, the more awareness you will have. This is the case on the bike as you have to be aware of all other road users and hazards, which may not bother you when in a car.

The guys are giving you good advice on here, take it as that, advice, not criticism.

Re the HD Sportster, the seat is quite low so being tall, this may be a problem for you. Test drive for at least 15-20 miles. I bought my first bike after 3-4 mile test drive. The seat was quite low and after 7-8 miles I started to get cramp in the groin and I'm only 5'9".

Not sure about just taking lessons and passing test before getting the bike. It may be possible but I think riding experience would stand to you in the test.

Anyway, let's know how you get on.