Sony to abandon backwards compatability altogether

super_furry

Better buy a PS3 soon if you ever hope to have a backwards compatable one.
Link

They're bringing in a 40gb version for €399, with no backwards compatability and phasing out the 60gb versions, selling them for €499.

Retr0gamer

Not Sony bashing since MS and Nintendo do so as well but I love how the games companies completely deny rumours about new systems or price drops before anouncing them a few days later. It's not like a 1 week early announcement will drastically affect sales.

On topic now this could be a bit of a turning point for the PS3. The 400 euro price point is actually a realistic one this time and the strength of the Playstation brand could make a lot of sales for Sony in the run up to christmas were the 600 euro price point was pricing it out of competition. I predict the Wii will still totally trounce it but I expect Sony to make up some ground on MS in europe at least (I think Halo 3 in America is going to sell more Xboxen) despite not having an exclusive game worth the steam off your piss.

Thank god I have my american PS3 with PS2 chipset

CiDeRmAn

The whole backwards compatible thing is really only for crusty geezers who have extensive PS2 collections and plan to trade in the PS2 or sell it to free up funds for the PS3, the rest of the great unwashed either never had many PS2 games to begin with, aside from the annual franchise updates from EA and the like or plan to shift their PS2 games to free up more capital to buy that must have PS3 game, whatever that is, it must have slipped my mind!

For the bulk of people will be buying this machine and never want to see a PS2 game again, dashing headlong into a next gen world, not needing to see Ico or Burnout 2 displayed on anything except a rearview mirror, getting smaller:(
They are the future owners of the PS3, and will buy them in spades this christmas of the price point can be brought down below €400.
It'll be a steal for a console with 5 good years left in it, what the 360 got, how much more can the devs get from it, and how will cross platform development look in 3 years time as the PS3 is in its prime and the 360 is starting to look lke old hat?

A US PS3 isn't the answer though, I can't play any of my PAL titles on it, now can I, not to mention I may as well have a BluRay player I can watch local movies on, no?

LookingFor

A necessary move. Price is way way more important, both to the consumer and the platform, at this stage, than maintaining PS2 backwards compatibility. Obviously, ideally, it would still have it, but if it had to go in order to make this price point happen, then it was absolutely the right decision. The PS3 platform is as complete as ever (i.e. they didn't take out hdmi, or hdds, or wifi etc.)

Also, only PS2 BC is gone in the 40GB, so I don't know if it's true to say that they're abandoning it altogether. And there are still models you can get with PS2 BC, so if it means that much to you, you can get a now cheaper 60GB starter pack (which is really excellent value now).

CiDeRmAn

I want PS2 and PSone backwards compatibility damn it!
I want to play Motorstorm, have a quick blast at Rez, maybe Fantavision then round off the evening with a blast of Rage Racer, perhaps WipEout 2097!

Mossy Monk

The plans to buy an XBOX 360 may be put on hold. Out next week :eek:

justfortherecor

Not too many PS2 games that I'd still play regularly apart from ProEv 6 and sure the new PS3 version of proev is looking impressive this year.

Defo think I'll be getting the 40gb for Xmas so.

steviec

What I don't understand is how taking out what was already software emulation will make the console cheaper. It's as if they've removed BC from the cheaper consoles just to encourage people to buy the more expensive ones - I can't see any reason for it to be removed since it should cost nothing.

LookingFor

steviec wrote:

What I don't understand is how taking out what was already software emulation will make the console cheaper. It's as if they've removed BC from the cheaper consoles just to encourage people to buy the more expensive ones - I can't see any reason for it to be removed since it should cost nothing.

It doesn't cost nothing. The EU 60GB model still has the PS2's Graphics Synthesiser in it. It's only partial software backwards compatibility.

Here's a picture of the EU 60GB motherboard:

http://www.hwupgrade.it/i.php?img=Componenti6.JPG

The black chip toward the left of the board is the PS2 GS. It's heavily connected to other chips in the system, so its removal not only would save the cost of the chip itself, but also allow them to simplify the MB quite a bit and save money there too.

steviec

LookingFor wrote:

It doesn't cost nothing. The EU 60GB model still has the PS2's Graphics Synthesiser in it. It's only partial software backwards compatibility.

Here's a picture of the EU 60GB motherboard:

http://www.hwupgrade.it/i.php?img=Componenti6.JPG

The black chip toward the left of the board is the PS2 GS. It's heavily connected to other chips in the system, so its removal not only would save the cost of the chip itself, but also allow them to simplify the MB quite a bit and save money there too.

Interesting. From my experience of PS2 programming the graphics synthesiser is a really simple chip with relatively few instructions. Most of the work is done by the Emotion Engine and Vector Units so it's kind of strange that they need hardware for that and software for the others. But I'm not an engineer so I'm sure there's good reasons.

LookingFor

steviec wrote:

Interesting. From my experience of PS2 programming the graphics synthesiser is a really simple chip with relatively few instructions. Most of the work is done by the Emotion Engine and Vector Units so it's kind of strange that they need hardware for that and software for the others. But I'm not an engineer so I'm sure there's good reasons.

It's not that simple at all actually. And it has huge internal bandwidth, which would make it difficult to emulate fully/properly.

They might try per-title emulation later, though, particularly if they go want to sell PS2 titles on the store.

Also, to clarify one point, PSone BC is still in there, even though it's being reported in some places that BC generally is gone.

mathias

I predict the Wii will still totally trounce it

Thats comparing apples and oranges if anything ever was.

I have a Wii , and a PS3 and they are aimed at totally different markets , the Wii , like it or not , is a kiddy/family machine with a novel controller and no HD capability.
It was great fun for about a month , its gathering dust now and hasnt been touched for Weeks , the PS3 though has some of the ink worn off the buttons from constant bashing!

Both the Xbox and PS3 have your more adult titles in spades and double as media centers , different animals altogether , I strongly suspect that many people that have a Wii have one of the others as well.

Me , I would have all 3 if the 360 wasnt such an unreliable piece of hardware. And as part of a home cinema rack its just Ugly. Maybe a Black Elite will do the job , but Im waiting to see if the red rings are fixed and a matching HD-DVD comes on the market.

Incidentally , my Boss has just left his position , his new job ? Manager in European operations for Microsoft home Entertainment , and his brief , sort out the 360 issue !! Well , he's going to be busy anyway.

Conor108

I can see hackers releasing some custom firmware to enable backwards compatibility. But dam I wont be getting a PS3 until after March at the very least. I don't have too many PS2 games though:cool:

Belle Ende

Conor108 wrote:

I can see hackers releasing some custom firmware to enable backwards compatibility.

What age are you? (rhetorical question)

Fully software b.c. emulation for ps2-on-ps3 is a large and difficult task, possibly even impractical on the ps3 hardware, even with access to detailed internal technical specifications.

Retr0gamer

mathias wrote:

Thats comparing apples and oranges if anything ever was.

I have a Wii , and a PS3 and they are aimed at totally different markets , the Wii , like it or not , is a kiddy/family machine with a novel controller and no HD capability.
It was great fun for about a month , its gathering dust now and hasnt been touched for Weeks , the PS3 though has some of the ink worn off the buttons from constant bashing!

I wouldn't say it's like apples and oranges at all. The Wii is totally trouncing the PS3 in all markets and thats a fact. It may be a 'kiddie' console in your eyes that only appelas to the casual gamer but this is the reason Nintendo are selling so many. The biggest market or games consoles is the kiddie market and the until now unexploited casual gamer market where the novelty factor appeals. It's the reason why Sony is doing so badly, it has a console that is out of the price range of the biggest videogame consumer market and features like HD and Blu-ray that the biggest consumer market doesn't care about or are even aware of.

mathias

The Wii is totally trouncing the PS3 in all markets and thats a fact.

Sure it is , but would you consider them equals ? I wouldnt , hence apples and oranges , the Wii hasnt got the capability of either the 360 or the PS3 hence to me the quoted statement above is nonsense.

You might just as well say that the Opel Astra outsells Ferrari , it'd be true , but means nothing.

In terms of consoles the 360 and PS3 are contemporaries , both HD capable game consoles and media players , comparing those sales figures makes sense. Comparing them with the Wii sales figures is stupid.

The Wii is just a toy in comparison. A totally different product , and as posted , of no further interest to me. In the case of consoles , I would only be interested in the two more capable players , young children may well be interested in the Wii , and good luck to them , but Im not.

super_furry

Media players, HD, Blu-Ray, whatever. They're all consoles, something Sony seems to have forgotten given the paucity of their game line-up, and the Wii is trouncing everything in sight. You may dismiss the Wii and a 'toy' but you can bet that Sony would give anything for half it's success.

steviec

super_furry wrote:

Media players, HD, Blu-Ray, whatever. They're all consoles, something Sony seems to have forgotten given the paucity of their game line-up, and the Wii is trouncing everything in sight. You may dismiss the Wii and a 'toy' but you can bet that Sony would give anything for half it's success.

Of course the irony is that Sony have a far far better games line up than Nintendo on the shelves right now along with a vastly greater line up of games announced for future release, and Ninty are the ones showing signs of abandoning the core games market with the majority of their focus turning towards casual and gimmick toys like Wii Fit, apart from the few core franchises that they continually recycle and churn out.

Obviously it's been good for Nintendo's wallet, but I don't see why we should care who makes the most money. If we did we'd be saying Sony should be jealous of Microsoft's operating systems or Nintendo should be jealous of Sony's movies.

Royale with Cheese

A €400 price would interest me in a ps3 if I didn't already have a 360. You're getting better (and more reliable) hardware for around the same price as a premium 360. Couple that with the playstation brand and I'd say sales of the ps3 will take off. There'll be some decent games out for it eventually.

Varik

the 60gb going from eu there selling the sock now soon there only be 40gb

i have the 60gb and use bc to get my final fantasy fix

if you want bc get one now.

useeme

Varik wrote:

the 60gb going from eu there selling the sock now soon there only be 40gb

i have the 60gb and use bc to get my final fantasy fix

if you want bc get one now.

Where would i get a 60gb in a bricks and morter shop in Dublin?
Should i hold off until wednesday the 10th of october?

pphheerroonn

this means that there is only going to be a low spec PS3 available in Europe! Sony shouldn't have made that decision and need to undo it or release a higher spec console. Otherwise less techie people, seeing that the price has been reduced will buy it, be disappointed and then diss the PlayStation brand(not to mention fanboys!). It doesn't do any good for Sonys "Multimedia Hub" marketing plan if they go and take out 2 USB ports, the memory card ports and make the hard drive smaller. Also, I don't see a valid reason why they need to get rid of backwards compatibility completely as from what i understand they are doing all the BC emulation with software, which they have already developed! Its gonna damage the sales that Sony could have got when people, who still own a PS2 decide to buy a next gen console. I would think that they would decide to go with the console that can play the games they already have! that was one of my reasons for buying one!

Overall i think it was a bad move by sony!:(

TheBigEvil

I think the backward compatibility thing is hiding the other things that have been taken off the console. I understand that BC is a big thing for people, but Sony have basically totally changed the PS3 to what was launched earlier in the year.

1) Less USB ports (2 instead of 4)
2) Smaller Hard Drive (40gb instead of 60)
3) Card readers removed.

They have made a dogs dinner of the PS3. A 20gb and 60gb model at launch, then drop the 20gb model in Europe at launch.

And now the 60gb model is dropped and only a 40gb going forward.

I understand the price pointing issue, but they made a mess of that from the very start. With the 360 Elite now coming with a 120gb hard drive, its hardly the time to be releasing a PS3 with a smaller hard drive than the launch version.

Sonys other problem is the lack of games for the PS3. The 360 has a big library now, and with Halo 3, they are certain to get a big share of the Christmas market.

They have treated the European market pretty badly in my opinion, and all this chopping and changing doesn't instill confidence in their PS3.

They say that its only 40gb model going forward (but rumours of an 80gb model for Japan are circling), but what will they do if the 40gb model doesn't sell? Will we see a new revision of it?

All very confusing from a company that dominated the console world with their last two offerings.

steviec

I'll be amazed if they don't bring out a new premium model when the 60 gig goes out of stock. They're just not talking about it yet because they want the 60 gig to sell.

FutureGuy

I'm not a computer expert, but if the BC stuff is just software, then why can't they offer something that could be downloaded from the online store?

This lack of BC sure is a good way of shifting some PS3s.

LookingFor

TheBigEvil wrote:

I think the backward compatibility thing is hiding the other things that have been taken off the console. I understand that BC is a big thing for people, but Sony have basically totally changed the PS3 to what was launched earlier in the year.

1) Less USB ports (2 instead of 4)
2) Smaller Hard Drive (40gb instead of 60)
3) Card readers removed.

They have made a dogs dinner of the PS3.

Hardly. None of these things are particularly important. The core PS3 platform remains the same as ever - Cell, RSX, Blu-ray and HDD in every box. As a platform it's not nearly as splintered as the 360's, for example. That is a dog's dinner, if anything is.

You can always use a USB hub and USB adaptors for cards, and upgrade the HDD very cheaply. For less than the difference in price between the PS3 and the 360 Elite you could upgrade the PS3 HDD to 120GB.

NotorietyH

Retr0gamer wrote:

despite not having an exclusive game worth the steam off your piss.

Haze is out soon, and we already have Warhawk.

Retr0gamer

Well warhawk is no good to anyone not planning to go online but is a great game. As for Haze, I'm really not sure about this game. In fact I'll take a prediction here and say that it will be crap. I may and hopefully will be proved wrong but from what I've seen I'm not impressed at all.

NotorietyH

Retr0gamer wrote:

As for Haze, I'm really not sure about this game. In fact I'll take a prediction here and say that it will be crap. I may and hopefully will be proved wrong but from what I've seen I'm not impressed at all.

It's made by the people who made Goldeneye and Timesplitters, crap it most definitely will not be!

Not saying it's going to be amazing, but it's looking and sounding good to me. Lots of places are touting it as a potential Halo killer, which I think is over-hyping it a lot, but I'd expect a very solid FPS at the very least with excellent multiplayer.

Then there's Ratchet and Clank too, which looks like it could be damn good if yer into platformers.

Retr0gamer

Goldeneye has aged badly and Timesplitters was a competent console FPS in multiplayer but not a patch on the PC FPS games. The single player was also terrible. I'm not sure at all about it. Now that they are up against the likes of Halo 3 and the Unreal 3 engine games I don't think it will stand up.

NotorietyH

Timesplitters: Future Perfect was outstanding, I loved the single player on it, you had the story mode, then all the arcade and league mini-games that were even more fun that the story mode. The multiplayer was fantastic, had the joy of playing it online for a bit. Plus all the characters, ninja monkey!

For the time Goldeneye was awesome and was the pinnacle of console FPS, Timesplitters got more inventive as the series went on and for my money, Future Perfect is one of my favourite games of all time. Played it almost as much as I have Guitar Hero, for a FPS to have that level of replayability with me is impressive, believe me.

I think they're trying to play with FPS conventions again with Haze and I think free Radical's strong point is that they don't try to mimic the PC FPS experience, because you can't compete with that, but they try and make a perfect console FPS, not saying they've succeeded, but I think Haze will feel pretty different to most FPS shooters, whether in a good or bad way remains to be seen of course. I just have the faith that you lack