Bass amp for gigs

Frankiestylee

Anyone care to recommend a bass amp to me?

I don't want anything overly massive as I'll have to be carrying it around to gigs, but it also has to be loud enough to play gigs.

I have a Trace Elliot Boxer 65watt at the mo, and it's grand for moving around, but at only 65watts I'm afraid it's a bit on the puny side.

Say about €500 max.

I know most engineers DI the bass anyway, but, I dunno... one needs a loud enough amp, though I've played a gig recently with no bass amp and decent sound out of the monitors, yet the last gig I played had no bass in the monitors at all (and I was denied some on request). So... advise away please.

Used to either Ashdown or Trace Elliott amps, but just because they're what I've used in the past doesn't necessarily mean that's what I have to go for now.

Royale with Cheese

This is what I gots. Not the easiest thing to carry around but you should be able to manage it without too many problems. Anything smaller than that probably wouldn't be worth bringing to gigs.

Always used to D.I. the bass when I had my old 125w Laney amp, but I've started bringing the Ashdown amp to gigs with me cos it just sounds alot better.

Frankiestylee

Yeah it's a nice amp, I think it's the one I've used the most in the last while (practice rooms, other people's ones at gigs). Seems like a very popular model alright. Do you need 300watts for gigging though? Will I get to crank it up in most gigs? It kinda seems that engineers aren't always fans of cranking guitar amps up, dunno really about basses.

Doctor J

Frankiestylee wrote:

Yeah it's a nice amp, I think it's the one I've used the most in the last while (practice rooms, other people's ones at gigs). Seems like a very popular model alright. Do you need 300watts for gigging though? Will I get to crank it up in most gigs? It kinda seems that engineers aren't always fans of cranking guitar amps up, dunno really about basses.

Unless you're planning to play the Point and bypass the PA then 300W should be ample. I've done plenty of gigs without a bass-capable PA using only a 4ohm 300W amp and an 8ohm cab (so I wasn't really getting full whack out of the amp anyway) and it has always been sufficient. If you can't hear the bass on stage with an amp it's usually bad eq'ing and amp placement rather than a lack of power.

Golden rules: 1. Don't stand right beside the amp, you'll hear it better if you move into the area the speakers are projecting volume into. Standing to the side of the cab is a bad idea because that isn't where the volume is. 2. Unless you've got ears in the back of your knees, leaving the amp on the ground blasting sound into your legs and the audiences faces is a bad idea. If you keep turning up to hear it, you're only making it harder for the engineer to mix and make your band sound good out front, which brings us onto 3. Consider using the amp as a monitor if the PA is capable of providing a full mix. Tilt it back and aim it at your head. Use it to carefully control your sound on stage. Let the engineer and the PA control the sound of your band out front. That applies to the guitarists too. 4. Don't scoop all the fecking mids out of your EQ. Mids are what your ears find easiest to hear. Don't take the mids out and then turn up in a vain attempt to hear yourself, you're only making everything louder and your overabundance of low frequencies is ****ing up the sound for everyone else who's more than a metre away from your amp.

300W is an absurd amount of volume, so be careful how you use it. You could easily make your whole band sound **** and still not be able to hear yourself onstage. Consider where your speaker is pointing before you add volume.

fuse

Nice advice DrJ.
I need a new amp for gigging too. Was looking at this Carvin 600w!!
http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=BR610&CID=BA
Maybe I should come down on the wattage then! I'm not one to blow the head off the audience but like having more than I need for any future events. It seems a grand size & weight for lugging around, could be within my price range & tilts nicely so why not?
Or can anyone recommend anything better?
(Don't mean to hijack Frankie but think we're on the same tracks...)

Rustar

Don't be afraid of wattage for bass. Nothing says that you have to crank the amp to max - and more power means purer, cleaner sound reproduction when the amp's down low.
More watts gives you a larger 'mixing range', which makes you more versatile for different situations.

600 watts IS plenty huge though, that's approaching "outdoor festival wattage", to my way of thinking.

Having played all different wattages for bass from 100 to 450, I'd say 300 is the lowest I like to take to gigs.

Doc's advice about stage placement is spot-on. You can get away with a little extra bass as opposed to guitar, though, as bass tends to get "eaten up" faster, especially stage bass.

Doctor J

Hey Fuse,

there's no harm in having extra headroom, but if experience has taught me anything, it's that ideally you want to be as quiet as possible on stage in order for your punters to be able to hear your band with clarity and also in order for everyone in your band to be able to hear what they're playing and what everyone else is playing. Granted, a lot of the time that isn't the way it happens, you can't account for a **** PA, **** monitors or deaf engineer, but when looking for a bass amp, volume would be low down the list. If the Carvin has all the features and tone you're looking for then go for it. When an engineer runs a DI from your amp (always get them to take the DI from the amp, it is your tone, after all) that's what he wants the punters to hear, your amp becomes irrelevant to him unless you've got it too loud, so position it in such a way that you can hear yourself clearly, don't use it to shake the walls at the back unless there is no alternative.

TBH, I think pods are going to be the way forward for gigs, not very rock 'n' roll but for convenience and ease of use and, of course, a sonically pleasing end result for the paying public (if you're lucky ) they're a genuine alternative to lugging 40kg of bulky hardware and deafeneing the front few rows

Rustar

Yes, there's a school of thought that says you could probably get away with 3 Microcubes, a 50w bass amp, and some drum micing if you have a good, well-managed PA.

Myself, I'd love it.....easy setup and much less dragging heavy objects around!

Rigsby

I have the exact same amp as "Royale with Cheese" above. I find it perfect for pub gigs.

Frankiestylee

So Dr. J is nearly saying 300w is too much, Rustar is saying it's a minimum.... oh my

Personally I'd nearly be content with a decent floor pod, was actually thinking of buying one of the new pod xt live yokes, but you also have to take into account playing with other bands,which is why I'm currently stuck. I have to bring the bass amp to the gig, it's a 65w... now, I know I can just use the PA, I've done it before and I've seen bands do it with great results... but I'm kinda dreading the face on the other bass players and possibly the engineer.

That Ashdown is still nice though, but are the two speakers necessary? I have memories of lugging one of those bad boys around town, painful painful memories

John

I think you can get a 1x15 version of the MAG 300 but don't quote me on that. I think the 2x10 sounds perfect for most bass setups and I'd rather have a 2x10 than a single 15" speaker.

Frankiestylee

Is the 2x10 not much heavier then the 1x15 or am I wrong in thinking that?

Rigsby

John wrote:

I think you can get a 1x15 version of the MAG 300

Correct ! The other thing to remember is that the 300w refers to RMS. With the 2x10 combo you are getting about half that wattage. You would need an extension cab to get the full power.

Rigsby

Frankiestylee wrote:

Is the 2x10 not much heavier then the 1x15 or am I wrong in thinking that?

The 2x10 weighs 28kgs. Not sure about the 1x15 though I'd imagine there's not that much difference.

EDIT: Just checked this and the 1x15 also weighs 28kgs.

Rustar

Frankiestylee wrote:

So Dr. J is nearly saying 300w is too much, Rustar is saying it's a minimum.... oh my

There's more space in America, I probably played bigger venues.

I'm a big fan of the new cabs with a 15" and a tweeter/HF horn. To me it's the best of both worlds, lots of low-frequency oomph with cutting power from the tweeter. And you never have to scoop the mids!

Doctor J

Frankiestylee wrote:

So Dr. J is nearly saying 300w is too much, Rustar is saying it's a minimum.... oh my

No, it's not too much, I have an Ashdown ABM 300 myself.

Having said that, , I've never had it connected to anything other than an 8ohm 1x15 cab, so I've never really gotten the full 300W out of it, nor have I ever really pushed it more than once - twas a gig in the Mezz, after the two guitarists got brand new tube amps and were trying to outdo each other, so I had to push it pretty hard. After the gig one punter, who was downstairs in the Hub told me "I couldn't hear the band, but I could feel the bass"

What I'm saying is 300W is a hell of a lot and you'll probably never use it to its full capacity, unless something or someone is ****ing up, so don't go into this thinking you need an amp with a stupid amount of volume. Go for an amp that sounds good over an amp that sounds loud. If you can get both in one amp, whoopee, if you can save some wedge by not buying extra wattage you'll realistically never use, why bother?

Frankiestylee

Yeah I was looking at that 180watt... looks good, but strangely I'd imagine the 300watt would be easier to lug around cause it's got the two big solid handles, my current 60watt has one strap and it's far too much weight for a single hand.

Had to deal with the 300watt Ashdown last night, it wasn't actually that bad to shift. Think I'm gonna put the order into the thomann boys this weekend.

Royale with Cheese

I got mine from www.soundslive.co.uk. About €15 cheaper than thomann and delivery is quicker too.

unclebill98

If you get that 300w ashdown, I'd take off the rubber feet and replace them with wheels. You can get 4 wheels in Woodies, 2 lockable 2 normal and they'll fit into the holes where the rubber feet where. Its well worth the investment. Even to push it 10feet!

unclebill98

I've used this for small pub/venue gigs, had it tilted back towards my head. It was grand, but I think it suffers from lack of low end. It does not have much headroom and you can find yourself pushing it into overload very quickly if its placed in the wrong spot on stage.

http://www.musicstore.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/MusicStore-MusicStoreShop-Site/en_EN/-/EUR/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=TOZgS8fSZObR00000000000000009VSpPGaH?CatalogVideo=&ProductUUID=dAPVqHzmkbQAAAETVgU9M2Ms&CatalogCategoryID=LBnVqHzm6ccAAAERPZsvKPl9&JumpTo=OfferList

Some of the Ashdowns cabs have a controlable horn, with high/low or off. There not great. If you go for a 15" with a horn bear that in mind.

Anything around 25kg is managable enough on your own. Happy shopping.

Frankiestylee

unclebill98 wrote:

If you get that 300w ashdown, I'd take off the rubber feet and replace them with wheels. You can get 4 wheels in Woodies, 2 lockable 2 normal and they'll fit into the holes where the rubber feet where. Its well worth the investment. Even to push it 10feet!

That's a good idea sir. I was going to be all manly and say I've hefted it up 4 flights of stairs in one go before, but, well... it wasn't a pleasant experience so wheels could be great... I take it they're lockable wheels you're on about though yeah?

unclebill98

Frankiestylee wrote:

That's a good idea sir. I was going to be all manly and say I've hefted it up 4 flights of stairs in one go before, but, well... it wasn't a pleasant experience so wheels could be great... I take it they're lockable wheels you're on about though yeah?

Yeah, sorry. 2 are lockable to stop it moving on stage. I had a Trace Elliot 1210H, it was a combo woth 4x10's in it. Can't remember how heavy it was but **** me, it was a two man job for stairs. I added wheels and that was it, much easier....those 10feet make all the diff.

you sure a head/cab solution would not be better?

unclebill98

MAG 300r head 280euro
ABM or MAG cab, should put you around your budget?

joenailface

I've never had any problems with my amp and its only 220W (granted its an ampeg) but your better off getting an amp for the tone rather than the power. Also in order for the actual db level to double the wattage would have to increase 10 times, so a 300W amp would be under 5% louder than my 220 (if you are going solely on wattage that is) and depending on what quality of amp it is you might gain or lose a few decibles. Still at gigs we would only have the amps turned up so that they were the same level as the drumkit, you never need it any louder as you should be able to play comfortably together without a PA. Oh and about the moniter thing, too much bass will blow most moniters fairly easily so any sound engineer that 1 cares about the equipment and 2 isn't a moron will put as little bass as possible through the moniters. I'd definatly say your better off not focusing too much on power and focus on the tone and quality of the amp, ashdowns are great but i find they rumble too much for my style of playing so thats why i didnt buy one...most people can't afford to be spending a 1200 on amps though. Ramble over.

Eoin Madsen

joenailface wrote:

Oh and about the moniter thing, too much bass will blow most moniters fairly easily so any sound engineer that 1 cares about the equipment and 2 isn't a moron will put as little bass as possible through the moniters.

You've been misinformed about the capabilities of the average stage monitor.

Savman

joenailface wrote:

Oh and about the moniter thing, too much bass will blow most moniters fairly easily so any sound engineer that 1 cares about the equipment and 2 isn't a moron will put as little bass as possible through the moniters.

So an engineer who sends Bass to a wedge is a moron and doesn't care about the gear? Rubbish. Modern day monitors are designed to handle so much more than just a measly 4 string bass, in fact all the technology these days goes into PA speakers and making them multi purpose. Incidentally, your bass amp is basically just a poweramp + speaker so works exactly the same as a PA or monitor system.

Any properly powered 15" wedge will easily outperform a standard Bass Amp.

At the same time, the basic fundamental rules of physics still apply, too much of anything will blow a speaker. Please research the facts about PA systems before you go shouting this nonsense off as gospel.

Rustar

Absolutely.....your standard monitor IS generally a compact, full range PA speaker, and able to handle any frequencies you can throw at it.

I don't know about "outperforming bass amps", tho.....cabinet design is important. I guess we need to ask Eoin Madsen about those Toodleman-Smelly parameters again.

unclebill98

Well I guess I won't back up the bass in monitors is ok bit!

I for one am considering getting a monitor based setup to play back my bass to my while on stage.

I've played bass through and JBL SRX 712m powered by a CrownXTI4000 and its was far louder/clearer than my AshdownABM500 with a 2x10 & 1x15. So I can only imagine what a 15" version would sound like. If the owner of the mentioned speaker reads this.....it was only during a sound check....just to see...

Eoin Madsen

Rustar wrote:

Absolutely.....your standard monitor IS generally a compact, full range PA speaker, and able to handle any frequencies you can throw at it.

I don't know about "outperforming bass amps", tho.....cabinet design is important. I guess we need to ask Eoin Madsen about those Toodleman-Smelly parameters again.

Eoin Madsen gets a headache from Thiele-Small parameters!

I've heard some poxy bass cabs that would barely out-perform a laptop speaker, and some great big monitors that would put an Ampeg cab to shame. No generalisations possible really.

ferdi

ye cant get them anymore but i play thru an ashdown AMB Evo I combo...beautiful tone from low to hi...ts 300w and I dont ever see myself needing more juice than that tbh.