What web development language to use?

Talon.ie

All,
I'm looking for some advice on web site development. Specifically which languages/frameworks to use.

Some background, I've got loads of C++ experience (unfortunately this doesn't translate well to web development) and a decent amount of Java as well.

I've been thinking about ideas for starting a microISV and I have a good idea for a couple of web based products. My problem is I don't know much about web development.

Can anyone recommend a language / framework to me based on the following criteria,

1. Relatively easy transition from C++/Java. Learning a new language isn't a problem, but I'd like to spend my limited time on design/development.
2. Good, preferable great, documentation
3. Good support. forums, wiki's etc..
4. Good IDE support
5. Enables rapid development, e.g. I want to be able to pump out a working system in a reasonable amount of time instead of spending ages messing around with fiddly stuff (how's that for vague???)

I'm thinking JavaScript because it'll let me have a fairly interactive page. e.g. the ability to drag objects around and let users position things just so. That's going to be one of the themes of the site so I'll need that at a minimum.

Would an alternative be something flash based??

How about PHP / Python?


For a database I'm happy using MySQL now, but may want to upgrade to Oracle at some point so I don't want to design that out either.

I realise this is pretty vague, but if anyone else has been in the same position or has any insights I'd love to hear your thoughts.

monkey tennis

Technically, you could write CGI apps in C++ or Java. Realistically, you'd want to learn an interpreted language such as PHP (syntax is heavily influenced by C, so you should be able to get to grips with the basics quickly).

I'd be careful about relying on javascript - what if it doesn't run as expected on the client system? Personally, I prefer to keep as much scripting on the server side as possible.

um7y1h83ge06nx

PHP isn't bad.

I started doing some web development a few months ago with no prior web experience.

Decided to take the LAMP (Linux-Apache-MySql-PHP) route with the project.

Good points:
PHP is very easy to learn if you know C/C++.
There is plenty of support as LAMP development is so popular, with sites and forums.
Lots of nice extensions to download which make development a lot easier.
As far as IDE goes, I use PHP Designer 2007. Download the eval version, it's pretty good.

Just my opinion, I certainly wouldn't consider myself an authority in web development.

bonkey

LAMP is definitely a popular model.
Ruby (on Rails) is also a strong contender.

I also wouldn't rule out using something like GWT (Google Web Toolkit) if its web applications you're interested in writing, especially considering your familiarity with Java.

ianhobo

hey

(im probably going to get thrashed for recommending MS here, but I was in the same position as you, and found the transition no prob at all)

well first, if you know Java, moving to C# would be a cinche, they're basically just clones of each other
system.out becomes console.write etc....
Each have the same objects,
With the FREE visual express ide's you can just do simple click and drag developent with data sources (loads of mySql add ons that are really good)
and with html (forms, tables, drop down boxes, text boxes),
It will also allow you to do both client side and server side dev

Anywho, thats my 2 cents

b.t.w if you know Java, have you looked at providing a servlet solution with tomcat or something? You've 90% of the battle won if you know Java.....that would be way better, and cheaper for re-distribution (tomcat),and more SECURE!

DublinDilbert

Your choice of language will depend on a few other factors too...

What's available on your web host? most of the cheaper hosts provide perl & php....

How many hits/second do you see yourself serving? eg PHP is not high performance (each php page must be parsed line by line), where as Java is compiled to byte code and executes very fast... how much interaction with the database back end is there? again with Java the application server can do connection pooling to greatly increase throughput...

Does your application have to communicate with a business back end?




If you need performance & connectivity go for Java/C#... Or if you don't need performance and want to get up and running quickly go for PHP... also with PHP chances are someone has done something similar already (www.hotscripts.com)

muckwarrior

I just want to echo what ianhobo said. The free .NET 2.0 development tools are excellent and C# was basically designed to be a cross between C++ and java so you should pick it up with minimum of effort.

And besides that .NET (IMO) is the best Web Development Framework out there (except maybe Ruby on Rails but I haven't tried that yet ).

MoominPapa

With your experience and what you are looking to do Netbeans could be the answer. I use it with Tomcat and MySQL on a linux box for intranet apps and its great. New version coming soon with improved AJAX/Ruby/C++ support

stevenmu

I'd vote for going the .Net route too, for the reasons mentioned above, and ASP.Net AJAX will give you a lot of the client side functionality you might want (dragging and dropping things etc)

Talon.ie

Thanks for the replies all.
I hadn't even considered the .NET route, I'll put some thought into it.

I see I've got a number of choices. I'll put some thought and research into it and see what feels best for me.