Why don't DJs know how long songs are?

mike65

I hardly listen to music radio so this is a bit rich of me, but having just heard Lorcan Murray decapitate two songs on his Radio One gig I have to wonder if they ever check the song and the time availible to play them. Its not rocket science, the database will have the info, you know how long the ad breaks last, you know when your show ends. There is no excuse for being caught short.

Mike.

FlutterinBantam

Hey... this is Lorcan Murray we are talking about,whaddya expect

DMC

Is "Brainbusters" in for the 8 handicapper just for today or for the week?

Reason being, if Collins is off for the day, I might forgive missed timings if Murray hasn't had long to plan the show.

mike65

He's in for the week at least. He mentioned Ronan Collins taking a 'well-earned' rest!

Mike.

MarkN

No excuse really, unless trying to make news at the top of the hour.

But CD players and computers have countdowns and playlist logs have the length of the song printed. Some DJs just think listeners wanna hear them more than the music - research would prove that they are wrong

Dudess

Yep, there's a timer. They may have to cut it short because there's a certain amount of items that need to be covered in that hour etc.

That_Guy

A lot of DJ's are guilty of this and Ian Dempsey, in particular, is one of these. He generally seems to play the longest songs right before the news thus needing to cut it short which can be annoying especially if it's a request somebody has made.

grumpytrousers

That_Guy wrote:

A lot of DJ's are guilty of this and Ian Dempsey, in particular, is one of these. He generally seems to play the longest songs right before the news thus needing to cut it short which can be annoying especially if it's a request somebody has made.

v true and v annoying; the problem could be solved, of course, if he'd just say what he wants to say and then play the sodding tune. He's getting worse and worse for completely inane witterings and half baked opinions. i mean - he was always bad, but it's getting ridiculous now!

tampopo

Yeah, I heard that aswell. Such a climactic song too. It starts off slow and builds and builds and builds, quickening all the while. It was a sin to cut it before the end.

Dudess

The end part of Guns n' Roses November Rain, when it goes all dark and melodramatic - DJs always cut that part, damn them. The best part of the whole song!

That_Guy

grumpytrousers wrote:

v true and v annoying; the problem could be solved, of course, if he'd just say what he wants to say and then play the sodding tune. He's getting worse and worse for completely inane witterings and half baked opinions. i mean - he was always bad, but it's getting ridiculous now!

The problem seems to always occur before the news on the hour. I blame the half hour sports bulletins. They go on for so long with Ian always asking ridiculous questions and pretending that "listeners don't know the answer" when it is blatantly obvious that it's he who doesn't know.

Oh radio, you can be so annoying at times.

kmick

Radio is now about the advertising. All it is is one big advert wih some music, trafiic etc around it. They know exactly how the long the song is but they dont care. Its one of the big **** you listener that made me abandon radio years ago and switch to the mp3 player.

That_Guy

You're right actually. They must have bribed Lily Allen somehow too. She mentions Tesco in one of her songs. What's next, Westlife singing ballads about Subway?

Dudess

kmick wrote:

Radio is now about the advertising. All it is is one big advert wih some music, trafiic etc around it. They know exactly how the long the song is but they dont care. Its one of the big **** you listener that made me abandon radio years ago and switch to the mp3 player.

As if the DJs are also the ad managers. :rolleyes: It's not as if they're the ones who decide where and when the ads will be scheduled, or how many ad breaks there can be. DJs are only doing what the sales manager tells them to do. The Broadcasting Commission only allows a certain number of ad breaks per hour anyway.

kmick

Dudess wrote: »

As if the DJs are also the ad managers. :rolleyes: It's not as if they're the ones who decide where and when the ads will be scheduled, or how many ad breaks there can be. DJs are only doing what the sales manager tells them to do. The Broadcasting Commission only allows a certain number of ad breaks per hour anyway.

Not sure what your point is. The OP asked why dont DJ's know how long their songs are. My point is they do but don't give a damn because the ads take precedence. As a listener I dont care whether the Sales Manager, The Cleaner , the Managing Director or the DJ makes the decision. At the end of the day a song gets cut off after a minute by the DJ.

Roll your eyes elsewhere - what are you 11?

Dudess

kmick wrote: »

My point is they do but don't give a damn because the ads take precedence.

And the point I was making was maybe they do give a damn but they have no choice in the matter because the ad manager instructs them on where to place the ad. You were TOTALLY making it out to be the DJ's choice.

Roll your eyes elsewhere - what are you 11?

Oh get over yourself. You clearly hadn't a clue what you were talking about. I work in radio so no wonder I rolled my eyes at such misinformed nonsense.

kmick

Dudess wrote: »

And the point I was making was maybe they do give a damn but they have no choice in the matter because the ad manager instructs them on where to place the ad. You were TOTALLY making it out to be the DJ's choice.Oh get over yourself. You clearly hadn't a clue what you were talking about. I work in radio so no wonder I rolled my eyes at such misinformed nonsense.

Did you see my last point 'As a listener I dont care whether the Sales Manager, The Cleaner, the Managing Director or the DJ makes the decision. At the end of the day a song gets cut off after a minute by the DJ'

The DJ does have a choice - if he knows the song is 3 minutes and the ad break is 1 minute away then don't play the song. Does the ad manager say 'start this ad right in the middle of robbie williams or you are fired'

The reason radio is so crud these days is that the people who work there cant see that people are bothered by the fact you start an ad break in the middle of a song. Address this point rather than personally attacking me.

_feedback_

Dudess wrote: »

And the point I was making was maybe they do give a damn but they have no choice in the matter because the ad manager instructs them on where to place the ad. You were TOTALLY making it out to be the DJ's choice.

Oh get over yourself. You clearly hadn't a clue what you were talking about. I work in radio so no wonder I rolled my eyes at such misinformed nonsense.

You are right to a certain extent, but at the end of the day, as 'kmick' pointed out, surely the 'ad manager' (sales manager?) doesn't instruct the presenter to place the ad after a minute of the song. All decent set ups will have a back-timing function which will let the presenter know to the second how much time is left to the top of the hour. If it is a case of the song being cut to go to an ad break any other time during the hour, it's definately the presenter at fault. The system will tell you that an ad is overdue, but it won't cut off Amy Winehouse 'Valerie' (unfortunately) and go to the break. It's done manually, so essentially the presenter makes the desicion to cut it, for whatever reason.

At the end of the day, it's up to the presenter to have the timing of the hour perfect, and ensure the broadcast sounds as good as possible.

Unless of course, the sales manager barges in and starts hitting ad buttons. It's the sales managers fault then. Those evil ad managers.

Dudess

kmick wrote: »

Roll your eyes elsewhere - what are you 11?

I only "personally attacked" you on the back of the above comment. I'd have been more civil if you'd been more civil in the first place.

elviscostello wrote:

You are right to a certain extent, but at the end of the day, as 'kmick' pointed out, surely the 'ad manager' (sales manager?) doesn't instruct the presenter to place the ad after a minute of the song. All decent set ups will have a back-timing function which will let the presenter know to the second how much time is left to the top of the hour. If it is a case of the song being cut to go to an ad break any other time during the hour, it's definately the presenter at fault. The system will tell you that an ad is overdue, but it won't cut off Amy Winehouse 'Valerie' (unfortunately) and go to the break. It's done manually, so essentially the presenter makes the desicion to cut it, for whatever reason.

At the end of the day, it's up to the presenter to have the timing of the hour perfect, and ensure the broadcast sounds as good as possible.

Unless of course, the sales manager barges in and starts hitting ad buttons. It's the sales managers fault then. Those evil ad managers.

Ad manager - advertising manager, same as sales manager. Although "ad manager" is more of a newspaper term I suppose.
Anyway, I know all of the above - as I said, I've worked in radio on and off since 2002 (well, I've just given up - happy days!:)) and fair enough. But when those long songs are requests and there's only so much time left, a DJ might elect to play a bit of the song since it's better than nothing. Not all shows are prepared to a T in terms of the playlist. I've worked on shows where tracks are picked during the show - requests, spur-of-the-moment decisions etc.

_feedback_

Dudess wrote: »

I've worked on shows where tracks are picked during the show - requests, spur-of-the-moment decisions etc.

Me too, I've also always made it priority to have my timing as close to perfect as possible! Great feeling when a track finishes (where it's supposed to) and the ad break kicks in, timed to the exact moment. The average joe listening won't notice really, but they will notice if I had plonked in an ad 60 odd seconds in to their favourite song that they've gone to the trouble of requesting.

kmick

Dudess wrote: »

..a DJ might elect to play a bit of the song since it's better than nothing. Not all shows are prepared to a T in terms of the playlist. I've worked on shows where tracks are picked during the show - requests, spur-of-the-moment decisions etc.

Ah so its the listeners fault. You are unreal....

You are also contradicitng yourself when you imply that the majority of shows now have a playlist,this makes it even more inexcusable to cut a song as every second should be planned (unplanned interuptions, thoughts or general gremlins aside.

Can I make one final point and leave it at that...most listeners do NOT like hearing an ad cut a song. If I can only get this point across to you both of us will have learned something today.

Dudess

I didn't say it was the listeners' fault and you know it. At the end of the day, if requests come in, the ones that are chosen are entirely at the discretion of the DJ.
Your post in question again:

kmick wrote:

Radio is now about the advertising. All it is is one big advert wih some music, trafiic etc around it. They know exactly how the long the song is but they dont care. Its one of the big **** you listener

How exactly could I not interpret that as "the DJ cares more about ads than about the listener"? And then you claim that wasn't your point at all later on. If that's the case, you should have made it clearer the first time round.

most listeners do NOT like hearing an ad cut a song.

And? When did I say they did?

_feedback_

Dudess wrote: »

How exactly could I not interpret that as "the DJ cares more about ads than about the listener"?

Eh, because if you read it again, you'll see that he never actually said anything like you 'interpreted'.

Dudess

That's TOTALLY how it reads to me.
Kmick, you disagree with me, fair enough. But where's all the hate coming from? Jeez... don't take it so personally.

_feedback_

Dudess wrote: »

That's TOTALLY how it reads to me.
Kmick, you disagree with me, fair enough. But where's all the hate coming from? Jeez... don't take it so personally.

He says: Radio is now about the advertising. All it is is one big advert wih some music, trafiic etc around it.

He means radio in general... more ads etc and it's like one big ad all the time! don't really agree with that totally, but that's what he means as far as i can see.

He says: They know exactly how the long the song is but they dont care. Its one of the big **** you listener

Reflecting what I was also saying about how a presenter should time his/her hour better.

The Muppet

If the show is not playlisted there is no excuse for crashing the end of a song. The presenter should be able to pick a song to fit the time remaining in plenty of time to get it lined up , if not finish on an instrumental.

If working to a playlist it's a bit more tricky especially if the jock likes the sound of his own voice or does not adhere to the instructions re the length of his links.

Re requests coming in , commercial stations do not do "live" requests unless someone asks for a song that is already playlisted to be played.

Dudess

The Muppet wrote: »

Re requests coming in , commercial stations do not do "live" requests unless someone asks for a song that is already playlisted to be played.

Yes they do. Particularly if it's a request-type show, but also presenters will trawl the archives if a particular song request appeals to them.

MarkN

Dudess wrote: »

Yes they do. Particularly if it's a request-type show, but also presenters will trawl the archives if a particular song request appeals to them.

Not really.

BTW, the person that makes up ad breaks is called a Traffic Manager.

Dudess

Well how come I've seen it happen.

The Muppet

Dudess wrote: »

Yes they do. Particularly if it's a request-type show, but also presenters will trawl the archives if a particular song request appeals to them.

Which commercial stations can you ring and get a song played. very few if any. There may be a little more leeway overnight but I know of night time jocks being hauled over the coals for playing songs that were not on the playlist.